The Official BL Cricket Thread

[beech]

I agree to some extent but i still believe normal swing to be less complex. Its simply due to air flow etc like you said. You don't need to angle the seam neccessarily. I used to be a swing bowler before a string of shoulder injuries ended me. Reverse swing is a hard art to master because there are different theories on how it works. Some people don't only rough up one side of the ball but also try to make it heavier by loading it with liquid like sweat, saliva etc. some disagree with this saying it just makes one side of the ball soft which is counter productive. This is something I think comes down to where you play cricket. For instance in Australia the balls we use (predominantly Kookaburra) don't last as long and soften up a lot quicker. The balls used in England are a lot harder wearing because the pitches are rougher so balls need to be more durable. This assists reverse swing in my opinion because they stay hard but can be roughed up and weighed down on one side.
Also action has so much to do with it. Reverse swing isn't predominant in Australia and that is possibly due to the standard actions of aussie bowlers. English actions are much more condusive to swing.
With the taped up tennis ball, i would think that is more due to the uneven nature of the ball. Once one side is taped its a lot heavier. Also i don't think a tennis ball is a good comparrison because its so light so he behaves different to a heavier ball anyway.

 

[Chaos Butterfly]

Well hey we won. That wasn't that surprising.

And it doesn't really mean anything either... again not surprising.

I think the only real challenge that we are going to face up until the next Ashes series here, is blooding our youngsters and getting them used to the rigours of stupid amounts of cricket. We need to stick with Shane Watson and give him the time to grow into the role of quality all-rounder, which means that Stuey Macgill should get a few more games as well... which is definitely a good thing... he's a bit of a twat, but he definitely deserves a go. In any other team in the world (with the exception of India or Sri Lanka) he would be an automatic first choice spinner, and would probably get a run as a 2nd choice behind Murali in Sri Lanka, and would fight tooth and nail against Kumble and Harbajhan Singh. He is a very talented bowler. He got to 100 wickets faster than even the great Shane Warne, and he bowls very well in tandem with Warnie.

I'm a big fan of giving him a consistent go in the squad, even though we do need to give Shaun Tait, or Nathan Bracken, or Stuart Clark some more time as well to become truly quality international test cricketers...

But hey, I can't wait for the next Ashes series here. The last one was absolutely fantastic with so many ridiculously tight results. The better team won in the end, but our overall class almost came through a few times to steal it from them even after sub-standard performances. It was without a doubt one of the best series ever and I don't even mind that much that we lost, just because of how good it all was.

Winning all the time isn't really exciting, and we should have quite a few good challenges against the English in the next few years

CB

 

[stepchild]

if you dont angle the seam with regular swing when the ball is new (ie both sides are the same) then how do you make it swing? it wont just go to one side for no reason. my understanding is that with regulat swing the seam should face the direction you want it to go, i outswing: 15 degress towards slips.

with regards to the tennis ball, i dont think it has anything to do with the weight, the fact it is that air moves faster over the shiny side hence creating lower pressure which 'sucks' the ball over. i think it is called bernoulli effect the same principle that describes why planes take off the ground

 

[beech]

true with the tenis ball but the movement is so drastic on a tennis ball that it cannot simply be the smoothness.
True to some extent when talking about bowling with a brand new ball but thats not when swing bowling generally takes place. Thats when its left to sheer pace and accuracy. Action has a massive amount to do with it. For instance I was a left arm bowler and my action was condusive to bowling inswingers (moving the ball into the right handed batsman). I could do it with brand new ball but nowhere near as much as with an old ball so i didn't often open the bowling. But yeah seam angle does come into it and that is why swing bowling is less complicated because more is known about it. Reverse swing can be a bit hit and miss.
If you watch McGrath bowl, he almost always bowls with the seam bolt upright (unless its one of his many different slower balls) and he doesn't really swing the ball. This is due to his action. Even if he held the seam on the angle he wouldn't neccessarily swing the ball. McGrath is sort of bowler who is more likely to move it off the pitch from hitting the seam. He has been so successful because of his accuracy, not speed or moving the ball, cos really he doesn't have or do either.

There are various trains of thought on angling the seam. Some believe it makes it too easy to scramble the seam if on the angle in which case it can't swing. Some say you need to. I believe that action is the main contributor in relation to new ball bowling because i've seen it over a number of years watching and playing with guys who can move the new ball a mile and others who can't no matter what.
Just my thoughts anyway. I only have a coaching and playing perspective. My physics ended in Year 12 and i've got a bit of a grounding in biomechanics from university studies but yeah i don't think anyone knows for sure. But reverse swing is definately a greater mystery to cricketers.

Beech

 

[stepchild]

fuck i love cricket!

what other sports can you have these types of discussions in?!

 

[beech]

hehe yeah its great. But just about any sport you can discuss the finer points of various technical aspects of the game. I just wish I could still play. I go insane through the summer being restricted to spectating. If only my batting could stand up to being a specialist batsman. But even then i'd be fucked when it came to fielding because I can't throw, so it'd be slips cordon or in close for me and anything that got through would be someone elses. A good friend of mine who plays rep cricket is currently on his last shoulder and he is a batsman but has had 2 reconstructions and if he wrecks his again he is gone. Which would be a terrible waste. Injuries suck but cricket still rocks.

Beech

 

[stepchild]

jamie cox said today that watson should bat 4 and clarke back to six cos he hasnt got the technique (or the record for that matter - still averages 38 in first class cricket). mark waugh agrees, interesting theory, they think he should be a mainly batting allrounder, but we know what happens to them (ie the waugh twins, ponting, martyn could all bowl) they just stop.

 

[beech]

I don't think watson is up to Test cricket at the moment. He is a good one day player but in terms of a Test allrounder I think he is far from it. For him to cut it at Test level he basically needs to be at Freddie Flintoff's standard. I think that Martyn is still the best option at 4. Clarke needs to refine his craft down the order. Its interesting that they think clarke could be batting alrounder, I wouldn't have thought his bowling strong enough to be considered an allrounder of any sort. The Waugh twins bowling was a lot stronger than Clarke's and I don't think you could consider Ponting's bowling that of a batting allrounder. Martyn at times has bowled a bit. Seemed to get a bit of time with the ball in his hand under Steve Waugh's captaincy. In terms of stopping I think it comes down to the toll on the body. Steve Waugh stopped bowling when his body couldn't handle it. Mark Waugh started bowling spin as he aged. Seems Ponting doesn't bowl anymore cos he doesn't back himself. I loved it in Waugh's last Test that he had a bowl, was fantastic.

I think Martyn has been harshly dealt with and I hope that he fires and regains his spot because he is a valuable player, its just because he is a very introverted guy and keeps away from the spotlight that he gets used as the scapegoat. How can you be Test Player of The Year and then get dropped after 1 lean series? If we sacked everyone who performed poorly in the Ashes then there wouldn't be much left in the side apart from Warne and McGrath (in the games he played). I also think that Kasper shouldn't be rulled out of the equation. He is probably the hardest working bowler in Australia and considering the performance of the other bowlers in the Ashes he wasn't that bad. I think he bowled acceptably and would be a shame if he doesn't play for his country again but I fear he will follow his close mate Andy Bichel's path and fade back into representing his state only. Strange that 2 guys who are really good friends and play together are such similar bowlers. Both very big strong guys, hard working, not exceptionally talented but hard work covers that and both been bowlers always trying to hang on to that 3rd bowler spot in test cricket. Maybe my opinion is biased to cos I support QLD in 1st class cricket even though I'm a Victorian.

Out of interest who is everyone's all time favourite player?


Beech

 

[Naughtiest_Maximus]

I think Martyn has been harshly dealt with and I hope that he fires and regains his spot because he is a valuable player, its just because he is a very introverted guy and keeps away from the spotlight that he gets used as the scapegoat. How can you be Test Player of The Year and then get dropped after 1 lean series?

I think you are spot there. He along with Gilchrist has saved this team from many a periilous posistion in the last two years batting at no 4 and in recent times has always seemed to be the one on the end of some shocking umpiring decisions. Personally i'd love to see him fire and be back in the squad.

Out of interest who is everyone's all time favourite player?

For me there are two players who standout for totally different reasons. Firstly Dean Jones, i used love the way he backed himself when batting and his un conventional batting style[especially in the 1 dayers]. To see him advancing down the pitch to quicks or backing away from or walking right across his stumps to upset the bowler as he was running in was something that not many players were prepared to do at that time. Also one of the things that Darren Lehman did and a reason why i used to love watching him bat. He was a great feilder, awesome runner between the wickets and a great batsman at both forms of the game. I'll never forget watching the news and hearing of his exploits in the tied test at Madras where he scored 210 and had to be hospitalised suffering from severe exhaustion. Such a pity his career was cut short because he had a falling out with the selectors.

The other is no other that Captain Grumpy himself Allan Border. For a man who was perhaps not so gifted as say a Mark Waugh he was one the most determined crickteters i have ever seen and never threw his wicket away. I think the current state of Australian cricket owes a lot to what he was able to do along with Bob Simpson in what was one of Australian cricket's lowest ebbs. When the chips were down and we were struggling when he used to walk to the wicket you just had that feeling that he would get us out of trouble and he so often did. Allan Border i salute you!

 

[beech]

I don't think I can narrow it down to just 1 player either. I would probably have to say Ian Healy and Darren Lehmann. Healy is the best keeper I have ever seen. Gilchrist is obviously a lot better batsman and now days keepers basically are batsmen that are handy with the gloves. I doubt we will ever again see a keeper the calibre of Healy. He was also a handy batsman in his own right. It was a familiar sight to see him at the crease digging Australia out of the shit. Definately could bat with a number of Test centuries to his name.
Lehman well he was just a great character of the game who also had his career cut short, incredibly inventive and unorthodox and anyone that ever met him would tell you he is a top bloke. Underated as a bowler too.

I would also have to give mentions to Big Merv, Allan Border, Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh and David Boon. Obviously big Merv for his character, Booney for being a legend and Taylor, Border and Waugh for their leadership and class.

I myself can't stand Dean Jones. I think he is one of the biggest wankers ever to be involved in Australian cricket. There is a reason why not many of his team mates liked him when they played with him and don't speak to him in retirement. He is incredibly full of himself and thinks the world revolves around him. Junior players at my club have attended his cricket camps and they say all he does is talk about himself and tell you how good he is. I'm not sure that Deano is aware there is a world outside himself. Also his commentary on cricket is rediculous, he is almost negative enough to be English.


Beech

 

[Naughtiest_Maximus]

^^^ I agree as a commentator Dean Jones is shithouse at best. As for the man himself i still remember him as the cricketer i used to love watch playing i guess.
I tried to stay clear of hourable mentions i must admit as i got to about 5 and thought i'm still leaving ppl out, but what the hey.My top 5 honourable mentions go to Merv Hughes for obvious reasons, Darren Lehman for his batting flair, Damien Martyn for his guts on the pitch, i love seeing him smile back down the pitch at the bowler after he has copped a blow , David Boon for being well...David Boon and Rod Marsh another absolute legend.

 

[beech]

Booney gets a mega mention because he gives hope to fat grumpy blokes all over the wrold that they can still be elite sportsment. I look forward to the day Australian cricket returns to the day where the majority of the team sports a Merv, Boon or Border style mo.

I think the unluckiest cricketer ever would have to be Jaimie Siddons. Probably, no actually definately the best cricketer to never play a Test.


Beech

 

[xcidium]

Australia 7/297

Hussey out for 1.

I love test match cricket. I wonder what the odd's are for Lara getting out for a duck.

 

[NickyJ]

^ Very likely I'd say. Which is unfortunate coz he's great to watch.

 

[maxload]

Managed to squeeze the entire first session in with my 3 yr old daughter in the stand. Not alot of difference to watching it at home, dad sitting there with a beer, reading stories, stopping to watch each delivery. Yet another reason for crickets greatness.

Two thumbs up to security who took pity on me and let me take my beers into the unlicenced area.

All time favourite would be without a doubt the "Master Blaster", Sir Viv Richards. Saw him smash a monster cover drive for six over the top of the old northern stand at Eden Park when I was a wee tacker which I never forgot. He had all the arrogance of today's great batsmen such as Lara or Sachin but would always back it up. Plus he never wore a helmet, only his baggy maroon.

Personally feel Border is an over hyped wanker (that would be a class one wanker if you like). A ton of test runs for sure, but someone had to score the 150-200 runs australia were scoring each innings in the 80's.

 

[xcidium]

The Aussies ended up with a decent 435.

The W-Indies are struggling with 182/6 (62.0 ov) and have just gone off for bad light.

I doubt they'll make the follow on.

 

[beech]

Anyone see the six Lee hit out of the Gabba? I'm pretty sure thats the biggest hit I've ever seen. Only saw it on TV and would have loved to have seen it live. Imagine how it feels as a bowler to be hit not only for six but over the top of a grandstand out onto the practice nets and not by a batsman but by a bowler. Any bowler can probably remember a time when they have been absolutely slapped around but really that is having your pants pulled down and hit accross the ass with the Great Wooden Spoon of Ouch.

Beech

 

[swifty]

^^ I'm pretty sure they were saying something about Lee and Warne being considered allrounders now...

 

[THR!]

Anyone see the six Lee hit out of the Gabba? I'm pretty sure thats the biggest hit I've ever seen. Only saw it on TV and would have loved to have seen it live. Imagine how it feels as a bowler to be hit not only for six but over the top of a grandstand out onto the practice nets and not by a batsman but by a bowler. Any bowler can probably remember a time when they have been absolutely slapped around but really that is having your pants pulled down and hit accross the ass with the Great Wooden Spoon of Ouch.

Beech

There have been many many bigger sixes than that And the Windies just seem to tire so easily.

I can't wait to see Lara get going though. He is most definitely the most stylish, exciting batsmen ever. At his best he is just pure brilliance, ... just a shame there weren't more warm up matches.

 

[beech]

^^I'm struggling in my memory to think of seeing a six that big. I'm sure there are some, but its been a while since i've been a ball go out of a stadium of that size. The GABBA isn't exactly a small ground with a tinpot little stand. Make no mistake that was a monster of a hit.
Swifty, yeah occaisionally when they show the team list they have a bat and ball against warne and lee's names but by no stretch of the imagination are they allrounders. They are bowlers who can bat a little bit. They are still tailenders but for tailenders they are quite good. But it is just bullshit when they start getting referred to as all rounders. Warne is pretty much level pegging with McGrath for the most number of ducks. If Warne and Lee were allrounders we wouldn't be fucking around giving muppets like Watson and Symonds a game at Test level, instead the spot would be left open for a genuine batsman.
Lara looks like he is really struggling. He managed to occupy the crease for a while but he is having to work really really hard to stay there. He doesn't look comfortable at all. Hopefully he does hit his straps because he is what the Windies need to make this series competitive.
I reckon the most interesting thing to come out of the 1st Test was the way Chanderpaul bats. His stance is completely open and front on to the bowler. It looks like he is facing someone bowling at him from square leg. Some batsmen take an open stance to spin bowlers but nowhere near as open as his and not to someone like bret lee bowling at 150km/h. At those speeds it is way too much work and movement to get into a good position to play the ball. My tip is Chanderpaul's technique will get exposed and exploited here by our quicks and his captaincy will also come under massive pressure and fire.


Beech

Beech