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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Covid-19 The New Covid Megathread v.Oh-my-cron!

I'm tired of talking about covid 😔

I don't think antivaxxers are even interested in the truth, whatever happens they will continue to spin it in a way that perpetuates the conspiracy. That's all they want. They WANT it to be a conspiracy.
It's not a conspiracy if it's true.
 
@Las Veghost grower hypothetically, though, if you had severe covid would you go to the hospital? of course you would, they all do.

but why would you trust doctors who tried to get you vaccinated?

seems.... hypocritical (I'll spare you from more insulting words)
No I don’t go to the doctor unless it’s life threatening in which case I have nothing to lose so not hypocritical…and getting medical attention when your sick is different from getting a new vaccine when your healthy…
 
If someone is telling a lie, then they are a liar. It's not an insult.

Your winger wagging is irrelevant. Level headed people lose their shit when the world around them is crumbling due to people's idiocy. Get a clue.

Civil debate is breaking down because civility has been lost. The government and institutions are not responding to science anymore. They respond with censorship and oppression.

I refuse to be civil with abusers. That's like asking your tormentor to play nice. Fuck that. The gloves are off now.

Anyone who supports this is my enemy. They are killing children. The time for civility is over. It's time to fight.
If you could say, show the data where a casaul link is drawn between a childs death and vaccines, maybe that would help us winger waggers understand better. It would definitely do more help than insults which only further drive people into their respective tribes.

And reminder when you say things like ' just look at the data' that might cause us to look at different data than you are looking at.

And I dont know about you but generally if somebody is just misinformed I wouldnt necessarily call them a liar. If anything it seems like everybody in these threads has a lot of conviction.

So again, why don't you show us these vaccine related child deaths to help us understand?
 
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If someone is telling a lie, then they are a liar. It's not an insult.

Your winger wagging is irrelevant. Level headed people lose their shit when the world around them is crumbling due to people's idiocy. Get a clue.

Civil debate is breaking down because civility has been lost. The government and institutions are not responding to science anymore. They respond with censorship and oppression.

I refuse to be civil with abusers. That's like asking your tormentor to play nice. Fuck that. The gloves are off now.

Anyone who supports this is my enemy. They are killing children. The time for civility is over. It's time to fight.

Right but my point is, direct your anger at governments and institutions, not at the people who are victimized and misled. You're not going to change anyone's mind by insulting them.
 
I am of approximately the same view as @Xorkoth. I don’t hate, condemn, judge, or diminish anyone because of their beliefs in this regard. In entering any community of people I was not a member of, I would always be sensitive to the fact that they have beliefs and experiences that do not correspond to mine and therefore view the world differently.

However, although these words are rapidly losing any stable meaning, there is a difference in what people from different communities may believe and may be understood as a truth based on fact. At the same time different communities have different standards for what makes a fact and to get anywhere, people from communities with different standards about what is a fact have to both put in a bit of effort to understand the way the other comes to know and believe things are true.

If one wants to give the benefit of the doubt here, then you could say that in conversations such as these there seems to be a huge gulf between both sides and each is speaking a language almost unintelligible to the other.

From my perspective, it seems a lot like @OpiateKiller is espousing religious-like views based on faith. I don’t mean that as any kind of insult or criticism. But he has an unshakeable belief that certain things have happened in the world and will happen in the future as a consequence of forces for which he has no credible (to me) data. I have no doubt that he totally believes Bill Gates is deeply involved in monstrous conspiracies. But he cannot prove that (to my satisfaction) Therefore in his evangelical-like fervour (as it appears to me) to convince other people that he is right, he can only get them to agree if they are prepared to make a similar act of faith. Many people view the world through faith-like belief, so it is possible he could convince many people and within that community of believers the Gates=Monstrosity doctrine will attain the status of dogma.

This seems to me to be no different than the way Christians came to believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus. Or the way Buddhist’s believe one’s actions in this life influence how one is re-created in the next life. I wouldn’t shit on someone’s religious views and many people believing in conspiracies and also many people who are woke seem to think and behave exactly like they are members of a secular religion. The behaviour, way of communicating and defending their beliefs, and attitude to disbelievers is frequently exactly the same.

There is a difference though when people, such as was the case with @Foreigner in this thread, appear to be communicating within in my objective fact-based paradigm using provably false statements. In this case, it is not a statement of belief that should be respected. Rather, it is at best a shoddy and poorly researched argument using poor quality or biased data and at worst a conscious attempt to pervert the narrative by selectively using data to misrepresent reality in a way designed to incite fear or anger in people. As I mentioned in a previous post, I’m perfectly happy to give @Foreigner the benefit of the doubt here and assume he’s just gotten hold of bad information and is not intentionally trying to spread misinformation.

However, the longer he refuses to engage in a polite discussion of his data versus data offered as a counter argument to his claims and continues to reproduce the same argument seemingly in denial of any facts but his own then the less I’d be able to keep up the benefit of the doubt.

In a very general way, it seems that people attempting to mould the discourse in that way are in large part responsible for the growing number of people demonstrating the emotions ranging from anxiety to anger shown by @OpiateKiller.

Your comparison of my faith to God and any sort of religious denomination is simply your alternative reality to mine.

I don’t practice any faith. I don’t follow the Bible, In fact my God would welcome me with open arms for murdering guilty, evil people.

I follow the moral compass of what I believe my God wants for the best of the world.

You telling people everything will be OK when you do not know that for a God damn second to be even remotely true.

NO ONE KNOWS IF THE VACCINATED WILL BE OK. Just the FDA WHO SEALED THE FOIA for 75 YEARS.

All you know is you trusted a pharmaceutical company with a history of devastating mankind in the name of capitalist gain.

If I wanted to be psycho-analyzed I’d hire a professional. I’ll pray for you
 
alleged "science" seems to change every other week?
Do you know how science works? (rhetorical....)

It's been changing daily since it's inception. That's HOW science works. That's WHAT SCIENCE FUCKING IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It gets updated.

... that's what is called SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY

I am not saying the vaccines should be immune from criticism, OK, but it SHOULD be immune from idiotic nonsensical insights riddled with hyperbole and improvable "what if" situations. That's very unscientific, and goes against everything you use now to survive and live.
 
"WHAT IF" all those vaccines you took as a child might cause cancer in 10 years? Why is nobody talking about that?

"WHAT IF" The flouride the US gov puts in our tap water causes lower IQ (has been proven). Why is nobody talking about this?

"WHAT IF" all those contrails in the air are actually chemicals the gov is releasing? Why is nobody talking about this?

"WHAT IF" those "news" sources you seem to trust ARE ACTUALLY THE BAD GUYS WHO ARE DECEIVING YOU? why is nobody talking about this?

Nobody is talking about it because it's not politically relevant. Thus, they are not giving you conspiracies about it. It serves no purpose to right wing politicians.

They don't give a FUCK about you. They just want you to think a certain way.





so yeah, WHAT IF modern medical science made a vaccine in response to a very real situation that somehow fucking caused cancer in 5 years....... because that's not how medical science fucking works and you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.... BUT WHAT IFFFFFFFFFFFFFF???????????????????

You have no argument. Only WHAT IF speculation and conspiracy.

I honestly respect people who believe GHOSTS are real more than vaxx conspiracy theorists... (and I do not believe ghosts exist...)
 
None of this sounds good post-vax:
"before and 28 days after the first inoculation also revealed consistent alterations in gene expression of many different immune cell types. Reduction of CD8+ T cells and increase in classic monocyte contents were exemplary"

"To our surprise, we observed quite consistent pathophysiological changes regarding electrolyte contents, coagulation profiles, renal function as well as cholesterol and glucose metabolic-related features, as if these people had experienced an infection with SARS-CoV-2. In addition, PBMCs scRNA-seq results also indicated consistent reductions in CD8+ T cells and increases in monocyte contents, as well as enhanced NF-κB inflammatory signaling, which also mimicked responses after infection. Surprisingly, type I interferon responses, which had been linked to reduced damages after SARS-CoV-2 infection and milder symptoms, appeared to be reduced after vaccination, at least by 28 days post the 1st inoculation. This might suggest that in the short-term (1 month) after vaccination, a person’s immune system is in a non-privileged state, and may require more protection."

Towards the beginning is says: "Despite some uncertainties regarding potential consequences, large-scale vaccinations are taking place in many countries."

"Historically, vaccine research has been focused on whether or not vaccination could generate neutralizing antibodies to protect against viral infections, whereas short-term and long-term influences of the various newly developed vaccines to human pathophysiology and other perspectives of the human immune system have not been fully investigated."

Can read the study and results here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00329-3
Here's more evidence that taking a bunch of vax shots can cause Autoimmune disease, and also hurt CD8 T-Cells (Cancer fighting cells).


"The aiCD4+ T cell was induced by de novo TCR revision but not by cross-reaction, and subsequently overstimulated CD8+ T cells, driving them to become antigen-specific cytotoxic T lymphocytes (CTL). These CTLs could be further matured by antigen cross-presentation, after which they caused autoimmune tissue injury akin to systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE).

"Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune ‘system’ by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system's self-organized criticality."
 
Do you know how science works? (rhetorical....)

It's been changing daily since it's inception. That's HOW science works. That's WHAT SCIENCE FUCKING IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It gets updated.

... that's what is called SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY

I am not saying the vaccines should be immune from criticism, OK, but it SHOULD be immune from idiotic nonsensical insights riddled with hyperbole and improvable "what if" situations. That's very unscientific, and goes against everything you use now to survive and live.

Science is merely theory... until proven true. As for the "usefulness" of these Covid vaccines... vaccinated people STILL catch and spread the virus.

What an exercise in futility!
 
Here's more evidence that taking a bunch of vax shots can cause Autoimmune disease, and also hurt CD8 T-Cells (Cancer fighting cells).


"The aiCD4+ T cell was induced by de novo TCR revision but not by cross-reaction, and subsequently overstimulated CD8+ T cells, driving them to become antigen-specific cytotoxic T lymphocytes (CTL). These CTLs could be further matured by antigen cross-presentation, after which they caused autoimmune tissue injury akin to systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE).

"Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune ‘system’ by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system's self-organized criticality."

did you know Creatine, an endogenous chemical as well as a common supplement, also causes cancer?

did you know there are cancer promoting chemicals in Broccoli? (and many other vegetables)

did you know nearly every single food you eat has cancer promoting and cancer fighting agents?

my point is medical case studies/reports can be difficult to interpret out of context of high level medical knowledge

honestly, average non educated people should never fully interpret articles like this, because you lack context of it's negative effects and only see the word negative
 

did you know Creatine, an endogenous chemical as well as a common supplement, also causes cancer?

did you know there are cancer promoting chemicals in Broccoli? (and many other vegetables)

did you know nearly every single food you eat has cancer promoting and cancer fighting agents?

my point is medical case studies/reports can be difficult to interpret out of context of high level medical knowledge

honestly, average non educated people should never fully interpret articles like this, because you lack context of it's negative effects and only see the word negative
Oh, ok Bill Nye, so now we should just ignore covid vax scientific papers because some people may not understand?

Anybody else read the papers I posted? What do you think?
 
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Science is merely theory... until proven true
but conspiracy theories are... true until proven guilty??

Science has always been a theory, I'm not sure what your point is here....

OK, ok, listen

if a conspiracy is proven true... what is used to prove it's factuality? hmm... science? right?

So if you choose to not believe in certain science... why should fucking anyone believe in your conspiracy theory about science?

Without proof?

*drops mic*
 
Oh, ok the Bill Nye, so now we should just ignore covid vax scientific papers because some people may not understand? I'm just going to put you on ignore now.
what papers?

what "Scientific papers" that have not somehow been assimilated into science? O_O

the only real science I've seen against covid vaccines were facebook posts which cherrypicked data and misled people. That's not science.

Do you really think there are zero right wing science? Do you think the dems own science?????
 
who runs science? who is controlling science?

who is manipulating the science to hide vaccine danger?

the only entity who could do that is the US government..... yet the vaccine seems globally acceptable... HMMMMMM?

so why did the vaccine come out under the Trump admin???

hmm??

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

what if?

what if?

what if?
 
So if you choose to not believe in certain science... why should fucking anyone believe in your conspiracy theory about science?

Without proof?

*drops mic*
You misunderstand. I really don't care if anyone believes me. 😅
 
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