The new and improved Smackie thread; respectable junkies

[catching fish]

you dont get addicted to it if you just sniff it do you?

I hope you are kidding mate. If you do opiates regularly enough you are almost definitely going to become addicted in one way or another.

And the sad thing is (in my experience at least) that once you get a good and proper habit you'll never be able to go back to using casually like you may be able to do now.

That isn't to say that you'll go straight back to being dependant if you use again once, but your body will remember and so will your mind.

Ask anyone who has been physically dependant on opiates and they will tell you the same. Unfortunately there is no substitute for first hand experience and it tends to be a lesson learned in life.

Best wishes and be careful.

 

[notfried]

just thought itd be not as addictive as it wouldn't be intense as iv

 

[Crankinit]

Nobody starts out IVing though, it's usually after a year or two of sniffing (or smoking, eating, plugging etc) that you realize that your tolerance is climbing and that the purchase you just made is only going to get you high once or twice, instead of 5 or 6 times you used to get, unless you inject it. At that stage, the decision is much easier.

 

[pisspotnrock]

Nobody starts out IVing though, it's usually after a year or two of sniffing (or smoking, eating, plugging etc) that you realize that your tolerance is climbing and that the purchase you just made is only going to get you high once or twice, instead of 5 or 6 times you used to get, unless you inject it. At that stage, the decision is much easier.

I dunno, I was the complete opposite.. very first time trying smack I went all out n IVed in the city then went to some back alley pub.. initially thoughts were something along the lines of 'fuck, this is too hectic' which was followed by my mate convincing the bouncer it was my 'new medication' I was on that made me trip over my own feet, then takin half n hour to piss out a shots worth of urine then nodding off at the table outside with some irish backpackers followed by me spewin my guts up...

made it to a mates place 30 kms away after gettin kicked out n managed to get this chick I was interested in back to mine after another spew n few beers haha

but yeah, after that night, I figured fuck IVing it n the next 10 or so times was intranasaul.. then I realized heroin was expensive n did what you just mentions though having that said, I've probably only ever gone through ~a gram n a half in my life..

at the end of the day, it all comes down to the user and their mind-set IMO.. how-ever, I wouldnt reccomend IV heroin to anyone

 

[Crankinit]

Well yeah obviously some people do it differently, but as a rule

It's like the addiction thing. Sure, some people go out of their way to try heroin, end up doing it once or twice and don't enjoy it, but the chance that you do enjoy it and that it does become a habit and fuck with your life is big enough that imo you really shouldn't do it unless you're ok with the idea of being addicted to some degree.

Ugh, time to make some phonecalls I think. Haven't had any opiates in 6 months and starting to feel a bit twitchy on the inside... gonna have to get on for a few days next week to get it out of my system 8)

 

[hopefulraymond]

To change the recent tone of this thread, and understand if it doesn't stick, what is the difference between H and something like 5mg oxycodone x 6-10? For those bored/interested enough to look through my post history, I do have a fascination with endone mainly because it is the only thing that help alleviate the pain; allowing me to focus on anything other than pain.

After recently reading the 'should Ido heroin' megathread, I have decided that it is not for me, however, I can't help but wonder if anyone has had experience with both drugs, and is prepared to share their experience, I'd be really thankful.

Also, are there any other prescription drugs that may be able to help with my pain, bearing in mind I have tried fent patches (no good), and lyrica (suicidal thoughts).

 

[catching fish]

Hey Raymond,

If you are in chronic pain and do intend to go down the 'opiate road', I would imagine the best thing would be to find a good doctor to help you with a realistic and effective strategy. That way you hopefully won't have to get involved with street grade heroin and all the physical, legal, and financial problems that come with it. Obviously regular oxycodone use would cause an opiate dependency like anything else but I would be a lot better than H.

 

[Crankinit]

There really isn't a whole lot of difference between oxy and H, in my opinion (having used oxy extensively, and H a fair bit). Oxy has a stronger oral bioavailability, and when injected has a shorter duration and less of an immediate rush than H, and the high is more energizing and active, so to speak. Other than that, they're very similar drugs, with similar side effects and level of addiction.

 

[hopefulraymond]

Hey Raymond,

If you are in chronic pain and do intend to go down the 'opiate road', I would imagine the best thing would be to find a good doctor to help you with a realistic and effective strategy. That way you hopefully won't have to get involved with street grade heroin and all the physical, legal, and financial problems that come with it. Obviously regular oxycodone use would cause an opiate dependency like anything else but I would be a lot better than H.

Hi catching fish, and thank you for taking the time to not only read my post, but also give it some thought before answering. I am due for a visit to my doctor soon. As a bit of background; I was on 3 per day for 6 months, but the pain simply started to become unbearable at times, so I asked if I could get an increase to 4 p/day. And now, this is starting to wear off quicker again. This is why I'm considering asking if I can be RX'd some SR 100mg tramadol in addition to the 4 endones.

I am considering doing this because I don't want him to think of me as a 'seeker' of any sort. Of course, I would much prefer to have double the endone I am currently on, but I refuse to believe that the doctor is likely to help me with that.

I understand your logic about financial problems associated with H use, and after reading the frank stories shared by those in the mega-thread, I am determined not to go there any more. And I say that with the utmost respect, and I believe it the response that most of the posters in that thread would be happy to read.

Sorry for rambling.

 

[catching fish]

There really isn't a whole lot of difference between oxy and H, in my opinion (having used oxy extensively, and H a fair bit). Oxy has a stronger oral bioavailability, and when injected has a shorter duration and less of an immediate rush than H, and the high is more energizing and active, so to speak. Other than that, they're very similar drugs, with similar side effects and level of addiction.

100% agree. I started my hard opiate 'career' on oxy in 2011, and only switched because H was cheaper and more readily available. That said, I feel like there would be a much more significant difference for somebody like Raymond who suffers from chronic pain. Obviously the addiction risks and negative effects are extremely similar but I think the ideal situation would be for him to manage his pain without having to deal with the other junky shit like waiting to score, not being able to get on, getting shit gear or fucked over completely, getting busted by the filth, etc.

Hi catching fish, and thank you for taking the time to not only read my post, but also give it some thought before answering. I am due for a visit to my doctor soon. As a bit of background; I was on 3 per day for 6 months, but the pain simply started to become unbearable at times, so I asked if I could get an increase to 4 p/day. And now, this is starting to wear off quicker again. This is why I'm considering asking if I can be RX'd some SR 100mg tramadol in addition to the 4 endones.

I am considering doing this because I don't want him to think of me as a 'seeker' of any sort. Of course, I would much prefer to have double the endone I am currently on, but I refuse to believe that the doctor is likely to help me with that.

I understand your logic about financial problems associated with H use, and after reading the frank stories shared by those in the mega-thread, I am determined not to go there any more. And I say that with the utmost respect, and I believe it the response that most of the posters in that thread would be happy to read.

Sorry for rambling.

Hi Raymond - don't lose hope. If you genuinely need a certain amount of pain relief to function I think that you will be able to get it. It might take time, and it might require you to find the right doctor and build trust but if you are honest to your doctor and honest to yourself I think that will prevail. One generally can't walk into a doctor for the first time and walk out with a script for drugs that have huge abuse potential and significant street value.

Forgive me if this is forward, but can I enquire into what sort of back pain you suffer and when it started?

All the best mate.

CF

 

[hopefulraymond]

Hi Raymond - don't lose hope. If you genuinely need a certain amount of pain relief to function I think that you will be able to get it. It might take time, and it might require you to find the right doctor and build trust but if you are honest to your doctor and honest to yourself I think that will prevail. One generally can't walk into a doctor for the first time and walk out with a script for drugs that have huge abuse potential and significant street value.

Forgive me if this is forward, but can I enquire into what sort of back pain you suffer and when it started?

All the best mate.

CF

I totally understand where you are coming from CF, and your interest in my personal situation is both an honour, and appreciated. You are right that I must have a long standing relationship with my doctor, and after my GP had referred me to all the imaging and technical specialists he could (to determine that I had a significant/degenerative issue in the lumbar area of my back), he then referred me to a psych to help me through the emotional pain and anxiety that I continue to endure each and every day. In summary; I simply don't know what I am going to do when insurance runs out, and I still cannot work full time.

I have now been with that psych for over 6 months, and we have a good relationship. I even take in my tablets each appointment to show I'm using as prescribed. He was actually the one that put me onto c.w.extractions if my endone wasn't cutting it. Can you tell me something, please, CF? My doctor gets an authority for my monthly endone, but has told me that one day he will call them, and be told that they have the potential to say "no". I thought it was the doctor's choice?

To answer your final question, this has been going a year, with over four months of different steroid and CT guided injections, as well as MRI's etc. I'm not going to embarrass myself by announcing how I did it, but it was nothing sexual or anything like that. Just a simple thing (that the doctor said was essentially the straw that broke the camel's preverbial).

Again, apologies for the long reply, but your interest is received with much gratitude.

 

[Crankinit]

100% agree. I started my hard opiate 'career' on oxy in 2011, and only switched because H was cheaper and more readily available. That said, I feel like there would be a much more significant difference for somebody like Raymond who suffers from chronic pain. Obviously the addiction risks and negative effects are extremely similar but I think the ideal situation would be for him to manage his pain without having to deal with the other junky shit like waiting to score, not being able to get on, getting shit gear or fucked over completely, getting busted by the filth, etc.

Oh yeah, absolutely oxy from a doctor would be a better bet than trying to use street heroin. A street habit going to be unsustainable one way or another, but as you said that isn't because of the chemical properties of the drugs as much as the BS that surrounds them.

Good luck with your back Raymond, hope you manage to find effective treatment.

 

[catching fish]

I have now been with that psych for over 6 months, and we have a good relationship. I even take in my tablets each appointment to show I'm using as prescribed. He was actually the one that put me onto c.w.extractions if my endone wasn't cutting it. Can you tell me something, please, CF? My doctor gets an authority for my monthly endone, but has told me that one day he will call them, and be told that they have the potential to say "no". I thought it was the doctor's choice?

I am able to confirm that this can happen and has happened to me three times. That is to say I've been in a psych/doctor's office trying to get a script that requires an authority and the fucking CLERK on the other end of the phone has just straight up said no. Twice my psych just hung up and called again and got a different person on the phone and managed to get it through. The other time I was with a different doctor and they denied giving authority and that was that - it left me completely and utterly and royally fucked.

Since the second I am 100% certain I have been flagged on the system because the phone calls are now a lot longer and I can pretty much here the people on the other end making some disclaimer about me and then see the doctor's eyes look at me curiously/suspiciously. Which is absolute bullshit because I'm not a doctor shopper - I was just prescribed a curious combination of medications from more than one doctor for convenience reasons (I can't be seeing my main psych every time I need a new script).

Maybe somebody who has experience with long term opiate/pain medication can provide more details as to what sort of 'investigations' these people do in the back end of the health system and under what conditions they would reject a doctor's request. It's fucking bullshit that some office admin can overrule a medical professional and put a patient in that situation. My only advice would be to get your scripts from one doctor and keep to the recommended dose (or at least don't try to get a new script early).

I'm happy to help (or at least provide my 2 cents).

CF

 

[hopefulraymond]

I am able to confirm that this can happen and has happened to me three times. That is to say I've been in a psych/doctor's office trying to get a script that requires an authority and the fucking CLERK on the other end of the phone has just straight up said no. Twice my psych just hung up and called again and got a different person on the phone and managed to get it through. The other time I was with a different doctor and they denied giving authority and that was that - it left me completely and utterly and royally fucked.

Since the second I am 100% certain I have been flagged on the system because the phone calls are now a lot longer and I can pretty much here the people on the other end making some disclaimer about me and then see the doctor's eyes look at me curiously/suspiciously. Which is absolute bullshit because I'm not a doctor shopper - I was just prescribed a curious combination of medications from more than one doctor for convenience reasons (I can't be seeing my main psych every time I need a new script).

Maybe somebody who has experience with long term opiate/pain medication can provide more details as to what sort of 'investigations' these people do in the back end of the health system and under what conditions they would reject a doctor's request. It's fucking bullshit that some office admin can overrule a medical professional and put a patient in that situation. My only advice would be to get your scripts from one doctor and keep to the recommended dose (or at least don't try to get a new script early).

I'm happy to help (or at least provide my 2 cents).

CF

Thanks so much CF. You have truly helped a lot. I have only ever received authorities from this psych, so I'm hopeful this goes in my favour. And if it comes down to it, I will respectfully ask that they try again. He seems to think I have until March, but says he can't be sure, and the phone calls haven't extended any longer of the time I've seen him.

To push the question a little further, am I likely to get a raised eyebrow if I ask for tramadol SR and endone as normally prescribed together, or is he likely to say, one or the other?

I just know that the combo works for me, and given that tramadol contains anti dep properties (which I need), perhaps that could go in my favour?

Thank you also to crankinit for your concern. I just have to not lose hope as CF has previously put it.

Thanks again for reading and your help!

 

[catching fish]

To push the question a little further, am I likely to get a raised eyebrow if I ask for tramadol SR and endone as normally prescribed together, or is he likely to say, one or the other?

Hey brother, I can't say for sure because I have never been on long term pain treatment and I don't know your relationship with doc etc. I find it strange that your doctor isn't able to explain when/why your meds might get cut off. You'd think he would know and be able to assist you with the necessary processes related to securing your ongoing treatment.

In my eyes tramadol has a far less significant abuse potential than endone so I don't think it would be a huge deal if you needed some XR stuff to take the edge off. Maybe first suggest that your current pain meds are a not quite taking the necessary edge of rather than asking for specific meds, and then when talking about options suggest that tramadol has helped in the past.

DISCLAIMER: I'm a blight on society, not a doctor. So take this advice with a grain of salt.

 

[Dr Phibes]

Thankfully I have only ever had to take opioids for fun but I have and do know a few people who take it for pain. A while ago someone was being prescribed repeated scripts of Physeptone. You can imagine the questions. In order to keep getting them he had go to be assessed by a pain clinic. That was a while ago and don't know if pain clinics still exist.

I know someone who suffers from chronic back pain and is prescribed both oxy and Panadeine Forte. When I questioned this with him it is apparently standard to be prescribed a combination of drugs for back pain.

Raymond, the point of this post is that I was wondering why your pain meds are being prescibed by a psych rather than a pain specialist. That could be why questions are being asked.

 

[catching fish]

I'm so fucking hungover

 

[opi8]

Obviously regular oxycodone use would cause an opiate dependency like anything else but I would be a lot better than H.

Why would you be better than H? How many people have sampled you and are they being totally objective in their findings, or are you paying them for preferential treatment?

I think everyone should be able to judge for themselves if you are better than oxy, H or even paracetamol for that matter.

To change the recent tone of this thread, and understand if it doesn't stick, what is the difference between H and something like 5mg oxycodone x 6-10? For those bored/interested enough to look through my post history, I do have a fascination with endone mainly because it is the only thing that help alleviate the pain; allowing me to focus on anything other than pain.

The pain killing properties of heroin are essentially the same as that of medically prescribed morphine. Most doctors in Australia, and I believe, the world have come to some kind of agreement that for the treatment of constant, severe pain, a long lasting form of oxycodone is the best treatment. This is probably because it works great when swallowed (unlike morphine/heroin) and the OxyContin, or a continuous release brand of oxycodone was either marketed well, bribed well, or it may have even been superior to other medications of its type.

As has been echoed by other good contributors of this board, I personally don't think that you'd get any greater pain relief from heroin. It could, however, make you feel a little better than oxycodone does which could lead to ever increasing use of higher and higher doses. It may even cause psychological dependance, to go along with the physical dependance you most likely already have.

If you think you're not getting adequate pain relief, I think the best thing to do is speak to your doctor about it and definitely do not self medicate on top of what a doctor is prescribing you. It may seem strange to you but there are many, many people in great pain who can't get any relief at all (not even panadeine forte or tramadol) simply because their doctor suspects they may have an interest in enjoying the "unfortunate euphoric side effects" of various opiods. I personally think some doctors have an interest in schadenfreude, but I'm a jaded individual sometimes. If you decide to relieve your pain on the street like many of us do, I wouldn't judge you - but most of society will and your doctor would cut you off without listening to even a word of any explanation

I have only ever received authorities from this psych, so I'm hopeful this goes in my favour. And if it comes down to it, I will respectfully ask that they try again. He seems to think I have until March, but says he can't be sure, and the phone calls haven't extended any longer of the time I've seen him.

I don't understand this, are you being told that you are getting abrutly cut off opiates in March?

 

[hopefulraymond]

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies, guidance and assistance. I truly appreciate it. I was referred to the psych because the pain specialist was simply too expensive, treated me like cattle (hurry up, get in and get out), and the meds he prescribed me were not yet subsidised - something I really can't afford given my limited finances as a result of the injury.

I think the decision about opting for H is now off the agenda, and instead, I am going to talk to my doc about the possibility of using an XR in addition to an IR as I have had success with it in the past. I am not the most patient person in the world, and knowing that my next appointment is so close, i can only hope that everything goes ok. The less abuse factor of something like tramadol is something that is definitely giving me hope.

I just can't understand how I know that the 5mg oxy work for shorter periods of time, yet when they work, they free my pain, and allow me to function as close to normal as possible (no lifting and restricted movement not included)... yet, if I ask for an increase in dose, I look bad in their eyes. I do see it from their point of view though, hence trying to find alternatives that don't make me look like a 'seeker'. I'm no doctor shopper, that's for sure.

Oh, and how does the doc know i'll be cut off before long - i have NO idea! I really don't get it. I was basically just told that one day in the next few months, the call will be made, and the answer will be no, no authority. No explanation. (I should note, i've been overly open with this doc, telling him i once had an addiction to smoking green, but this was over ten years ago, and I have not touched it since - but definitely do not judge those who do. Go ahead, i say, enjoy! Maybe this is on some public record? I don't know how the system works.)

You are all incredibly generous with your comments and understanding, and my gratitude is extremely high. I am doing my best to not worry about when I get cut off, but the fear is always there. What do I do next?? (I'm not prolonging this exchange with that question, btw, I have taken more than enough of your time.) Many, many thanks, and I will keep you updated.

 

[Sweet Jones]

with the disclaimer that im aware this is a dumb question, that everyone is different, and that you can't really accurately predict it
at what point in an opiate binge could one who has been using oxy/heroin on occasion for a while expect to start experiencing physical withdrawals?