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The Most Sacred Psychedelic

zophen said:
Your source for this information is ?
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My source is simple reading of posts in this specific forum, where a significant majority of people posting do reference concepts like 'plant spirits' and hey, even this thread is titled 'the most sacred of all psychedelics'. Now, in terms of religious interpretation, veneration of an object (be it a tree, a jaguar or, as in this instance, molecules which have consciousness altering pharmacodynamics) amounts to totemsim. Add some new age personal growth/finding your place in the universe content and heterogenousness and ecclecticism of these beliefs and I consider that, with a relatively high degree of accuracy, you can call them Neopaganist.

Just so, let me quote the def. as is written in wikipedia:
Neopaganism or Neo-Paganism is any of a heterogeneous group of new religious movements, particularly those influenced by ancient, primarily pre-Christian and sometimes pre-Judaic religions.
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If this doesn't yet please you, I might also mention that sacral use of some of these substances constituted an integral part of religious life in aboriginal societies of Americas, which is something that is often refered in this forum as well. Now, since these religious practices were all animistic and/or totemistic and pagan (as oposed to monotheism of christianity/islam) I see their rediscovery and (ab)use by modern 'psychonauts' as a neopaganistic practice, thus my use of the word in the first post.
 
Danguba said:
My source is simple reading of posts in this specific forum, where a significant majority of people posting do reference concepts like 'plant spirits' and hey, even this thread is titled 'the most sacred of all psychedelics'. Now, in terms of religious interpretation, veneration of an object (be it a tree, a jaguar or, as in this instance, molecules which have consciousness altering pharmacodynamics) amounts to totemsim.
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As opposed to being symbolic, psychedelic use CAN be the most active, immersive religous experience anyone will have. I lean towards the notion of communciating with the actual plant (Salvia is the chemical that gave me this notion the strongest)- by consunming the active molecule, you are in fact encountering a sensient, albeit utterly different, form of life. Most totemism is involved with the worship of symbols.

Add some new age personal growth/finding your place in the universe content and heterogenousness and ecclecticism of these beliefs and I consider that, with a relatively high degree of accuracy, you can call them Neopaganist.
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Yeah, you could call them Flutesnoots, for all the difference it makes.



If this doesn't yet please you, I might also mention that sacral use of some of these substances constituted an integral part of religious life in aboriginal societies of Americas, which is something that is often refered in this forum as well. Now, since these religious practices were all animistic and/or totemistic and pagan (as oposed to monotheism of christianity/islam) I see their rediscovery and (ab)use by modern 'psychonauts' as a neopaganistic practice, thus my use of the word in the first post.
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I wouldn't attempt to simplify the religoun of "aboriginal peoples" as being simply totemic and pagan- they are stage of religion where genuine expereince is valued above simple ritual. These religion are very different to the empty modern religion, whose only connection to God/Godess is through bizzare, inherently meaningless acts- such as eating bread as a representation of the body, prostrating oneself three times a day facing mecca, not working on sundays.... all these things are attempts to hold onto the idea of the sacred.
 
I'd have to say LSD/Ketamine/Mescaline/DMT/Mushrooms, and all other psychedelics for that matter, will take you to 'the place,' the reset button, death and oneness if you take enough.

But with a trip with ego intact I feel like I bond with mescaline well.
 
Mushrooms for me. Everytime I take them I feel like there is something over me, somekind of aura hellbent on breaking me down and proving to me that im not worthy of the mighty shrooms. Its like a mental attack, yet so beautiful.
 
Danguba said:
I am an atheist and I cannot make myself consider a molecule, any molecule sacred. Yes, some of them do cause very dramatic changes in consciousness as compared to the one which most of us experience daily, but the visual and sonic illusions which are predominant during the intake of these praticular molecules you mention are in my mind, pure and simple pleasures of aesthetic nature, not much more than enjoying a great and dramatic peace of music or immersing yourself in a great painting. Beyond this I find nothing which would defy rational inquiry: to tell it bluntly, your mind gets in a confused state and produces unusual experience.

Now, most of you who replied here are neopaganists or something like that. I won't interfere in your 'magical' worldview, because it, like many other things, are a matter of personal choice. Just as some of you find 'sacredness' and 'life-changing experiences' when under the influence of certain substances, others find it by joining Jehova's Witnesses, being fervent catholics, fundamentalist evangelists etc.

Therefore, this question sounds to me as pointless as if someone asked which book do you find the most sacred: Bible, Kur'an, Tao Te Ching, Vedas, Avesta...
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There are many people here that would use the word "sacred" in a non-religious context, kind of like Gloggawogga mentioned above (not including his sarcasm). I also agree with the first sentence posted by Willow, that psychedelics provide an immersive spiritual expeirence instead of symbolic. Now, I don't agree with the rest of that paragraph, but you get the idea.

I don't personally ascribe myself to any particular religion since they all seem to have their faults. I think you'd be surprised how much the line blurs between athiesm and general philosophies like pantheism or even Buddhism if you think about it. There's really no "God" in the traditional sense in these philosophies.

The form of athiesm that exemplifies pure materialism is simply incomplete. It can never explain why any matter is here in the first place. You must admit that science will never be able to figure out why we are here or why "stuff" exists. And you can't say there's no reason, because that breaks down the chain of causative events that science and materialism are based on. I believe that everything is "sacred" just by the fact that it exists.

Anyway, yes, you'll have a few people here reaching for something to grasp onto ... some kind of set belief system or some symbolic form of spirituality (many pretty far fetched), but I think for the most part people who take psychedelics are primarily just wary of institutionalized religion. There's absolutely no reason you can't have spirituality without religion.

Now, if you go over to the Shroomery, I bet you'll find your share of neopaganists and whatnot.

So, as you may have guessed, my answer is that no molecule is more sacred than another. A better question for me would be what molecule is best suited to provide an immersive spiritual experience? There are quite a few of those.

LSD, Psilocybin, 2C-E, DOC, etc.
 
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I would say dramamine without a doubt. I've had nurmerous spiritual awakenings with this stuff. I wouldn't be who I am today if I had never discovered it.
 
I think LSD is hands down the most sacred drug there is. This isn't because the trip feels spiritual, it's more because it can show you the unbelievable and overwhelming powers of the mind and how you fit in with the rest of the universe.
 
for me lsd and mushrooms are both sacred, but in different ways.

lsd is like running through my past, present and future life, from beeing born to dying, it has this rush of energy that keeps my thoughts flowing endlessly. also, i feel very open to "cosmic", philosophical things or eastern religion. a strong acid trip feels for me somehow like what buddhist would call an enlightening experience or a zen experience. also, strong ego death on lsd.

on mushrooms i have the tendency to get in touch with the magic of natural things, plus the trip seems guided somehow by plant spirits. also the visions that occur are both totally organic and alien. once on 5 gramms of potent cubensis I was waiting at the bus stop and as I looked around the scenery all around me changed into something total alien. the people around me looked eiter alligator or alien like, with HUGE reptilian eyes on totally deranged facial proportions.


at the end, i'd say these are the to sacrest substances i know. they're working in the same terrotory of your soul while both can show you differen things and views from whithin.
 
This question is totally without a concrete answer. Set and setting and personal rituals involved have more to do with how you perceive the lessons from a psychadelic as "sacred"
Are you refering to sacred in a religiouis way, or in a mystical "one with the universe way, or something else entirely??
 
I'm refering it as sacred in a spiritual point of view, which (for me) includes religious and mystical themes. that means being one with the universe and realizing what the concept of "god" is all about could actually be the same thing, both religious and mystical. for me, the perceptor of the cosmic theatre.

point 2 is that these substances were the only ones (excluding marijuana) that i have used in my teenage years until now (10 years later) that seemed to make sense to ingest. trips were heavenly & trips were hellish, but at least there is so much meaning behind it. whatever it means :)
 
there is nothing more sacred than growing mushrooms for ones self, watching the pins turn into full blown booms, and enjoying each bite the moment you pick it off the cake. It gives a true feeling that the earth wants you to enjoy what it has to offer...even if its grown on a cake. either way, fresh mushrooms are the most sacred in my opinion.
 
Sacredness can't be quantified. Why, because it is subjective, a mix of emotions and impressions and other things. Subjectivity is the affectivity and affectivity is a part of reality. If I feel like some psychedelic is more sacred, well, it is for me. I mean, it's a truth for me. I would say mushrooms because they turned me into a pantheism and appears as a the manifestation of the earth spirit. I mean, the planet grows up mushrooms for us, there is like a link between nature and society. I grow my own shrooms and it feels like I am in the presence of Teonacaalt. Psychedelics experiences, as you know, are also essentially subjective, realization of deep truths is done at this level. If there is some sacred, then there is some religion. Perverted religious institutions are out of this. Religion should be mostly individual and subjective. Psychedelics should be used for the communion, to feel how everything is divine. In my opinion, as someone also said, all psychedelics are sacred, manifestations of some kind of spirits.


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