Social The mentality and thinking in being a sex-worker - ?

[Eligiu]

Men and women stimulate differently.

For women, there must ABSOLUTELY be emotional involvement in some capacity to experience pleasure/stimulation.

Men are typically primed and need to unload.

Women need to get fired up before they're ready.

That honestly just seems like your opinion man.

Dressing your (strongly held) opinion up as a fact is dishonest argument and bad faith. You cannot make an outlandish statement like 'women NEED emotional connection to have sex' or anything like that and expect people to take it on board like a gospel truth. Putting 'I believe' in front of that is fine.

You can't just win an argument by presenting your opinions as a factual reality man. I get that for you it's firmly held but I chuckle a bit reading something like that as a trans person because lol what is gender are you actually telling me that prior to me being 19 you would have told me that I needed an emotional connection but then the day after I came out no I'm primal and ready to unload? All because of my perceived gender presentation?

I don't require an emotional connection with anyone because honestly my big character flaw is that I sort of view men on Grindr as just whatever I need to get off and they're there for my needs. I'll get them off too because thats only fair, but then they can get off my bed, ditch the franger, clean up, get dressed and fuck off. No aftercare, no talking, no cuddles.

But I'm also hella autistic so while the concept of a partner who loves and cares about me is appealing to me, I still have zero interest in searching for one as whenever I try to have one I get overwhelmed by another person being very present in my life very suddenly, and they also get bored and annoyed eventually because they realise I am just that autistic and it isn't just cute shyness. I'll live alone with a dog and cat and my pet rock I've had for 5 years. Yes he's doing well thank you. He gets excellent sun exposure in the summer months.

The takeaway from this?

Having an emotional connection is nice but honestly if you're not a woman nor have experienced being socialised as one or been such an effeminate man that you're basically treated as such, I hardly think you can confidently say 'all women need emotional connect to have pleasure and stimulation' when there doesn't. Just find the clitoris on a woman and figure that out dude it isn't hard. Don't think your time spent researching the world's most flimsy science ,(yes psychology) where a person can see two different therapists and walk away with a contradictory diagnosis from each one beats a lifetime of people's lived experience man. That's out of touch with common sense.

You've got cis women in this actual thread saying they had some perfectly good sex while being a sex worker. That's actually the reason people offer regular bookings to decent, well paying clients who provide good sex.

 

[Atomic_Decay]

I have seen an extremely select few sex workers on a few individual occasions, exclusively for experimental neurological purposes.

i.e. emotional affect implicated in view of physiological response.

As per my blog, for the last number of years I've been modifying and tweaking a cognitive approach, which directly implicates emotional-affect, therefore, determines potential physiological outcome (potential for stimulation and/or orgasm).

So, given cognitive modifications, the responses have varied, with a view to at some point eliciting the optimal physiological outcome (by way of having determined the optimal cognitive setup).


So, what happens in physical encounters?

It doesn't really matter. What matters is what will happen when I have optimized the process.

And I am EXTREMELY curious myself to see what that will look like, both behaviorally, socially and sexually.

You are experimenting on sex workers?

As an academic who mainly uses ethnography and participant-observation I have to ask whether you told the select few sex workers you visited purely for experimental neurological purposes that they were experimental subjects and obtained their informed consent to participate in your experiment?

‘Cause I’m pretty sure whatever price you paid did not automatically buy consent to be guinea pig.

Can you describe your experimental process with your subjects?

 

[Atomic_Decay]

Just find the clitoris on a woman and figure that out dude it isn't hard.

Hmmm. This could be where I am going wrong. Some of my very favourite women don’t seem to have a clitoris. In that situation would you say the best thing is just to suck their cock?

 

[Eligiu]

Hmmm. This could be where I am going wrong. Some of my very favourite women don’t seem to have a clitoris. In that situation would you say the best thing is just to suck their cock?

I'm assuming that the person making this argument in question arbitrarily makes a distinction between cis and trans women.

In fact I sleep with more pre-op trans women than any other demographic. Not a weird fetish which it is for some (trans chasers are the third part of the transphobic trifecta, after violent aggressive ones and the condescending ones). No for me it's logical. I enjoy a certain type of sex, which certain body parts are needed for. Plus with both of us being trans there is not weird kink to it, it's really just a matter of wanting the least weird sexual experience. And every single one has been a sex worker. And to be clear, not that there's anything wrong with having sex with sex workers nor paying for it unless it's part of forced or trafficking work, I have never paid to sleep with the maybe 10 trans women sex workers I've hooked up with. They approach me on Grindr more often than not, we chat and get to know eachother, they say they can't believe I'm trans because I look like I do (bit of internalised transphobia there but it's whatever) then they ask me to come hang out. I'll mention I'm a sex worker too early on. Either of us paying is never even brought up it's like psychically mutually dismissed as an option because we both want to not be fetished and just enjoy the experience.

So yeah like if they are comfortable with it suck their dick. I just do hope your interest in trans women is legitimate and not a fetish because it's a dismal experience. I have good faith in you from my encounters with you thus far however.

 

[Atomic_Decay]

I'm assuming that the person making this argument in question arbitrarily makes a distinction between cis and trans women.

In fact I sleep with more pre-op trans women than any other demographic. Not a weird fetish which it is for some (trans chasers are the third part of the transphobic trifecta, after violent aggressive ones and the condescending ones). No for me it's logical. I enjoy a certain type of sex, which certain body parts are needed for. Plus with both of us being trans there is not weird kink to it, it's really just a matter of wanting the least weird sexual experience. And every single one has been a sex worker. And to be clear, not that there's anything wrong with having sex with sex workers nor paying for it unless it's part of forced or trafficking work, I have never paid to sleep with the maybe 10 trans women sex workers I've hooked up with. They approach me on Grindr more often than not, we chat and get to know eachother, they say they can't believe I'm trans because I look like I do (bit of internalised transphobia there but it's whatever) then they ask me to come hang out. I'll mention I'm a sex worker too early on. Either of us paying is never even brought up it's like psychically mutually dismissed as an option because we both want to not be fetished and just enjoy the experience.

So yeah like if they are comfortable with it suck their dick. I just do hope your interest in trans women is legitimate and not a fetish because it's a dismal experience. I have good faith in you from my encounters with you thus far however.

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek. This thread very heavy and I thought it needed a joke. Mainly I like people first and treat their gender and/or sexuality as a second order concern. If people have a good heart, are open about themselves, find me attractive/interesting, and like getting as high as fuck and just lying around being chill and happy, I’m happy to pleasure them in whatever way they like. I guess I identify as cis-straight because when I think about relationships I only think about cis-women - but in between relationships I should probably label myself pan-sexual or something.

EDIT: I have read how you are on the spectrum @Eligiu so maybe I should have been more careful in making sly jokes that you might misinterpret. It wasn’t aimed at you specifically…just riffing on the zeitgeist motif that transwomen are real women and all the twisted language that sometimes leads to.

 

[Eligiu]

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek. This thread very heavy and I thought it needed a joke. Mainly I like people first and treat their gender and/or sexuality as a second order concern. If people have a good heart, are open about themselves, find me attractive/interesting, and like getting as high as fuck and just lying around being chill and happy, I’m happy to pleasure them in whatever way they like. I guess I identify as cis-straight because when I think about relationships I only think about cis-women - but in between relationships I should probably label myself pan-sexual or something.

EDIT: I have read how you are on the spectrum @Eligiu so maybe I should have been more careful in making sly jokes that you might misinterpret. It wasn’t aimed at you specifically…just riffing on the zeitgeist motif that transwomen are real women and all the twisted language that sometimes leads to.

I definitely interpreted that very literally but it is also a comment I would say meaningfully as I very much consider trans women real women and get very confused when people don't because like, some of them do go and have all the surgery that they want so what's there left to have a hang up about? A nonexistent penis? One that used to be there? A chromosome? Saying having sex with a trans woman makes someone gay because they use to 'be a' man is basically the equivalent of saying anyone who has ever had sex with another person is a pedophile since the person they had sex with was once a child lol.

I don't really know how to identify myself either. Probably predominantly straight with relationships but the thing is I don't much like dating other men because of transphobia/homophobia. To explain, you know how people will always as a gay couple 'oh so who is the man and who is the woman?' Well I prefer more masculine men in general. I don't exclusively go for them, but it's my main attraction group. I'm masculine as hell and pass completely as a cis man, but I'm not often bigger than the other guy stature and size wise. Usually a decent bit smaller because I'm very slim and average height for a cis man. Back when I tried dating men I also couldn't grow a beard yet. So I assumed, probably correctly, that people would ask me and whatever man I dated who the man and who the woman was and while we would both point out that comment is offensive, the person would naturally immediately assign the female label on me by way of following steps.

However I'm pansexual mostly with the exception of other trans men. I don't feel comfortable enough with my body to sleep with another trans man. But I'll just avoid it.

Being open to it is far more than most people.

 

[Atomic_Decay]

I definitely interpreted that very literally but it is also a comment I would say meaningfully as I very much consider trans women real women and get very confused when people don't because like, some of them do go and have all the surgery that they want so what's there left to have a hang up about? A nonexistent penis? One that used to be there? A chromosome? Saying having sex with a trans woman makes someone gay because they use to 'be a' man is basically the equivalent of saying anyone who has ever had sex with another person is a pedophile since the person they had sex with was once a child lol.

I don't really know how to identify myself either. Probably predominantly straight with relationships but the thing is I don't much like dating other men because of transphobia/homophobia. To explain, you know how people will always as a gay couple 'oh so who is the man and who is the woman?' Well I prefer more masculine men in general. I don't exclusively go for them, but it's my main attraction group. I'm masculine as hell and pass completely as a cis man, but I'm not often bigger than the other guy stature and size wise. Usually a decent bit smaller because I'm very slim and average height for a cis man. Back when I tried dating men I also couldn't grow a beard yet. So I assumed, probably correctly, that people would ask me and whatever man I dated who the man and who the woman was and while we would both point out that comment is offensive, the person would naturally immediately assign the female label on me by way of following steps.

However I'm pansexual mostly with the exception of other trans men. I don't feel comfortable enough with my body to sleep with another trans man. But I'll just avoid it.

Being open to it is far more than most people.

Do people really still ask gay couples “who’s the man and who’s the woman”? I can’t think of anything so deliberately calculated to be demeaning and offensive.

But then again I live in an area of Sydney where cis-hetero men are just a minority. Gays and lesbians absolutely own my neighbourhood (although they are being squeezed out a bit by largely straight Chinese students / yuppies with very rich parents buying them apartments.

I honestly can’t think of the last time I heard a homophobic slur in the real world. Although I have heard more than a few lesbians slagging trans-women pretty robustly.

The trans-woman are women debate is not done and dusted by any means here and it is actually becoming an issue in our upcoming Federal election. A lot of the heat actually comes from lesbians and feminists rather than everyday Australians - who are more live and let live and just don’t think about it much unless they have children who they perceive as potentially being put at risk by changes in education policies or sports programs.

Personally I think transwomen are women if you understand the meaning of the word “woman” via a gendered epsitemology but pethaps not if you veiw the world through a sex-based feminist epistemology. As I personally use neither epistemology I tend to think the truth is nuanced, contingent, amd contextual.

But either way we still need jokes.

 

[Asclepius]

 

[Robi]

i dunno, im celibate, i sale a bit and give the rest away

 

[Conky]

Some of my very favourite women don’t seem to have a clitoris. In that situation would you say the best thing is just to suck their cock?

Show some love to their transmasculine vulva

 

[Robi]

Do people really still ask gay couples “who’s the man and who’s the woman”? I can’t think of anything so deliberately calculated to be demeaning and offensive.

But then again I live in an area of Sydney where cis-hetero men are just a minority. Gays and lesbians absolutely own my neighbourhood (although they are being squeezed out a bit by largely straight Chinese students / yuppies with very rich parents buying them apartments.

I honestly can’t think of the last time I heard a homophobic slur in the real world. Although I have heard more than a few lesbians slagging trans-women pretty robustly.

The trans-woman are women debate is not done and dusted by any means here and it is actually becoming an issue in our upcoming Federal election. A lot of the heat actually comes from lesbians and feminists rather than everyday Australians - who are more live and let live and just don’t think about it much unless they have children who they perceive as potentially being put at risk by changes in education policies or sports programs.

Personally I think transwomen are women if you understand the meaning of the word “woman” via a gendered epsitemology but pethaps not if you veiw the world through a sex-based feminist epistemology. As I personally use neither epistemology I tend to think the truth is nuanced, contingent, amd contextual.

But either way we still need jokes.

oh i get who is the man and who is the woman and we both look femme, i must be the man because im a big cry baby when sick and take out the trash and nothing else

 

[JohnBoy2000]

That honestly just seems like your opinion man.

Dressing your (strongly held) opinion up as a fact is dishonest argument and bad faith. You cannot make an outlandish statement like 'women NEED emotional connection to have sex' or anything like that and expect people to take it on board like a gospel truth. Putting 'I believe' in front of that is fine.

You can't just win an argument by presenting your opinions as a factual reality man. I get that for you it's firmly held but I chuckle a bit reading something like that as a trans person because lol what is gender are you actually telling me that prior to me being 19 you would have told me that I needed an emotional connection but then the day after I came out no I'm primal and ready to unload? All because of my perceived gender presentation?

I don't require an emotional connection with anyone because honestly my big character flaw is that I sort of view men on Grindr as just whatever I need to get off and they're there for my needs. I'll get them off too because thats only fair, but then they can get off my bed, ditch the franger, clean up, get dressed and fuck off. No aftercare, no talking, no cuddles.

But I'm also hella autistic so while the concept of a partner who loves and cares about me is appealing to me, I still have zero interest in searching for one as whenever I try to have one I get overwhelmed by another person being very present in my life very suddenly, and they also get bored and annoyed eventually because they realise I am just that autistic and it isn't just cute shyness. I'll live alone with a dog and cat and my pet rock I've had for 5 years. Yes he's doing well thank you. He gets excellent sun exposure in the summer months.

The takeaway from this?

Having an emotional connection is nice but honestly if you're not a woman nor have experienced being socialised as one or been such an effeminate man that you're basically treated as such, I hardly think you can confidently say 'all women need emotional connect to have pleasure and stimulation' when there doesn't. Just find the clitoris on a woman and figure that out dude it isn't hard. Don't think your time spent researching the world's most flimsy science ,(yes psychology) where a person can see two different therapists and walk away with a contradictory diagnosis from each one beats a lifetime of people's lived experience man. That's out of touch with common sense.

You've got cis women in this actual thread saying they had some perfectly good sex while being a sex worker. That's actually the reason people offer regular bookings to decent, well paying clients who provide good sex.

Absolutely fair points.

You're confusing emotion with emotional-connection and/or dependence/bonding.

When I used the words emotion, I'm referring EXCLUSIVELY to excitation-in-motion, which means these:



i.e. action potentials, the basis of human feeling (mechanical or feelings as love/hate/anger etc).

Most sex workers have sex with the majority of their clients (well, depending on the clients they get on that day I would say), with no perceptible increase in these, thus no conventional "arousal".

However, with lube and some well placed auditory fabrications, they can make it sound legit enough to generate a convincing fantasy.


Re women needing emotion for sexual stimulation, I'm making the very intuitive observation that they in actual fact need to get "fired up" or "interested" (i.e. get the nerves sensitized) for the sex to actually do anything for them.

i.e. typically they need to look at a man and think "oh he's hot, I'd fuck him", to want to fuck him.

**
- Perhaps it's easier to understand under the terms, women need excitation to feel stimulation, instead of "women need emotion.....".

Albeit from a physiological view point, excitation is mediated through emotion.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

You are experimenting on sex workers?

As an academic who mainly uses ethnography and participant-observation I have to ask whether you told the select few sex workers you visited purely for experimental neurological purposes that they were experimental subjects and obtained their informed consent to participate in your experiment?

‘Cause I’m pretty sure whatever price you paid did not automatically buy consent to be guinea pig.

Can you describe your experimental process with your subjects?

As per above post, I'll determine how powerfully I can induce these



via the cognitive-setup at that time.

If they're strong = you observe physiological signs of excitation: smiling, flushing of topical regions such as face/cheeks, sometimes sensitization of erogenous zones is visible such as stimulation of nipples.

As well as general perception of her "excitation", i.e. the increase in power and frequency of the above action-potentials, neural-spikes.

They generate an increase in electromagnetic pulses thus increase in the EM wave field, which can sometimes make the surrounds feel almost "thicker" like, "you could cut the sexual-tension in the air with a knife".

If I'm satisfied with these results, I'll agree to proceed with an encounter just like any other client and we'll do exactly that.

(no I'm not going to describe explicit details).

I'll observe what went down and how, then after put this in contrast to the cognitive application at that time and determine what needs adjustment/modification.

That's all she wrote.

 

[Kellsee]

Who is this comment directed towards?

Also wondering that myself lol

who are you thinking I was talking to?

Dam that sounds real tough lol

It was. It was terrible. All I ever wanted was to be loved

 

[SoCalShordie]

who are you thinking I was talking to?

It was. It was terrible. All I ever wanted was to be loved

I wasn’t sure, that’s why I was asking. Your post was directly after/under mine so I thought for some reason it could’ve been possibly said towards me.

 

[SoCalShordie]

who are you thinking I was talking to?

It was. It was terrible. All I ever wanted was to be loved

And I feel that when it comes to repeatedly choosing the ‘bad boys’ who are just absolute losers & users ughh.

 

[SoCalShordie]

I have seen an extremely select few sex workers on a few individual occasions, exclusively for experimental neurological purposes.

i.e. emotional affect implicated in view of physiological response.

As per my blog, for the last number of years I've been modifying and tweaking a cognitive approach, which directly implicates emotional-affect, therefore, determines potential physiological outcome (potential for stimulation and/or orgasm).

So, given cognitive modifications, the responses have varied, with a view to at some point eliciting the optimal physiological outcome (by way of having determined the optimal cognitive setup).


So, what happens in physical encounters?

It doesn't really matter. What matters is what will happen when I have optimized the process.

And I am EXTREMELY curious myself to see what that will look like, both behaviorally, socially and sexually.

Yeah I definitely gotta agree with

Hmmm…I’m really trying to follow along here and I’m definitely trying to give you the benefit of the doubt where my first reaction is not entirely positive.

But here you seem to be speaking in a language or code that makes sense only to you.

For example I think you are giving “intimacy” and “emotion” special meanings different to how most people interpret those words. Is that possible?

Consequently I can’t tell if you are making these women feel cherished as human beings or borderline assaulting them in the pursuit of the requisite “emotional”/sexual tension.

That’s why I was interested in you describing what happens physically in your encounters.

Yeah I definitely gotta agree with you right here. This is absolutely how I’ve been feeling while reading his posts during this entire thread. I’m literally an actual real life woman & he’s been basically telling me I’m wrong on my point of views and/or experiences. Not all women experience sex the same & not all men experience sex the same. One can only speak on their personal experience and on their personal experience only.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Yeah I definitely gotta agree with you right here. This is absolutely how I’ve been feeling while reading his posts during this entire thread. I’m literally an actual real life woman & he’s been basically telling me I’m wrong on my point of views and/or experiences. Not all women experience sex the same & not all men experience sex the same. One can only speak on their personal experience and on their personal experience only.

In relation to the above:

The following quote is correct:

For example I think you are giving “intimacy” and “emotion” special meanings different to how most people interpret those words. Is that possible?

Unfortunately misunderstanding may well be a matter of semantics (word interpretation).

I'm going on purely physiological interpretations, where as you all are going on the conventional social meanings, like emotion meaning some kind of sustained and lasting bond necessary for good sex.

Where as I'm using it as a means to illustrate nerve-stimulation, a feeling of "excitation" that's intuitively necessary for good sex (i.e. men won't get an erection without it, women won't feel sensation without it).

 

[JohnBoy2000]

And I feel that when it comes to repeatedly choosing the ‘bad boys’ who are just absolute losers & users ughh.

Re the "bad boys", I've read there's gravitation in that direction (regardless of understanding the associated degeneracy), as they can elicit feelings of excitation (i.e. the physiological property necessary for good sex).

In short, apparently some girls find them more exciting, thus sexually appealling.

I feel unfortunately this can kind of incentivize societal degeneracy (as men will aspire to become what gets them laid with hotties).

However, to transcend this, my scientific contention is determining a means to induce optimal excitation (nerve stimulation), alleviating any associated malfeasance.

 

[Atomic_Decay]

@JohnBoy2000 I ask this seriously…do you eat pussy and absolutely love doing so?

I feel, as a general rule, there is little need to overthink or theorise sex if you have enthusiasm and talent in that regard: all kinds of wondrous experiences will then come your way.