Travel The MEGA Travel Thread!

[Jamshyd]

You can do REAL travelling in Thailand, all depends on where you're gonna go.

Somehow this attitude of "go there, let me tell you, it's better than here... I've been there, believe me maaan" --- this kind of oneupmanship of experience... hmm... goes against the grain with me, seems it's more about WHO's the most discerning, WHO's had the wildest or most genuine experience... ego stuff... don't like it. Like it's more about the people who talk about the place than the place itself... like, look at me me meee I have been to INDIA... so cool...

mind you, I still haven't been to India. I will, before long, but I haven't. Maybe what I just wrote is wrong.

So I take it you don't go to the PD and TR forums for the same reason?

Sorry, but I think you totally misunderstood my post.

REAL travelling... hmm... what is REAL? The Bible talks of throwing pearls before swine... I think some folks can get a REAL travelling experience out of walking down the street in the next village, half an hour from where they live. Some folks can go to the remotest places ever, virtually untouched by man, and it is lost on them.

REAL travelling is anything besides Thailand (and maybe Monaco and Vegas and Disney). Like I said before, I have found that the primitive culture of the Thais necessitates that they copy others. I have found very little of value in Thailand. Yes, I take more pleasure driving through Southwestern Ontario country side than I do living in Bangkok, because the former is more "real".

^You'll see what is meant when you go to India. It's not meant to be elitist, in my estimation...
The big difference being India is made for Indians, and most of the places traveled to in Thailand by westerners were made specifically for the tourists. This follows all aspects, from transportation, lodging, food, and pretty much anything else. I'm only speculating, but the reason people consider it 'real' traveling or more hardcore or whatever, is that the air-con mini bus is absent, the McDonald's is no where to be seen, and the crappy bland renditions of local foods are absent. You can't hide in Air Con in India, you are forced to experience it...

But hey, just my estimation on the "real traveling" in India ideas.

As usual, I totally agree with this. When you go to India... especially after Thailand, you'll know what I'm talking about.

If it has a Lonely Planet guide book its not real travelling

All about the Dem. Rep of Congo if you ask me.

Funny you mention this - I adore Lonely Planet and think it stupid when people think they can travel without a guide book. In fact, Lonely Planet is a continuation of an ancient tradition, not a new thing by any stretch.

Carl, some places in India are definitely built up for tourists. Darjeeling was one that I visited. But I do agree with you -- it's easier to find interesting places that aren't touristy at all in India than Thailand. Frankly though, I'm not sure if I'd go way off the beaten path in India without a trusted local to take me around.

I agree with this too.

The point is - India is much more authentic than Thailand. Syria is much more authentic than Thailand. Germany is much more authentic than Thailand. Louisiana (US) is much more authentic than Thailand. Almost any place in the world has more to it than Thailand, IMO.

It has nothing to do with one-upping anyone. It has to do with Thailand being full of bullshit.

 

[carl]

Carl, some places in India are definitely built up for tourists. Darjeeling was one that I visited. But I do agree with you -- it's easier to find interesting places that aren't touristy at all in India than Thailand. Frankly though, I'm not sure if I'd go way off the beaten path in India without a trusted local to take me around.

LOL, OK, I must say that I've never been to Darjeeling, Rajasthan, Goa, Karnatka, or Hampi... and i'd expect that those places have more built up facilities. However, I've never had any problems in India off of the beaten tourist trail. That's a bit more cautious than I would be, staying on the tourist trail and all. I hope people would just keep their wits and be aware of what's going on around you, just as in any place in the world. India in much safer than most NYC neighborhoods....

 

[Ximot]

So I take it you don't go to the PD and TR forums for the same reason?

partly. that, and the fact that i have somehow lost interest in psychedelics. I was fascinated for some time. Quite a long time. This fascination is no more. I have moved on from that. And I rarely make discoveries any more when I read.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

India in much safer than most NYC neighborhoods....

Hehe yeah. I've never felt unsafe anywhere in Manhattan, but there are definitely parts of Bx & Bk I wouldn't just park my car and go for a leisurely stroll in.

I was thinking largely of the slum areas of India that I wouldn't venture into. But then again what reason would I have to? In fact, now that I think of it, "the slums are gritty and dangerous" isn't really saying much about any country, since it's true pretty much everywhere, and what you travel somewhere to see usually isn't located there.

 

[TheSpade]

Funny you mention this - I adore Lonely Planet and think it stupid when people think they can travel without a guide book. In fact, Lonely Planet is a continuation of an ancient tradition, not a new thing by any stretch.

You think it's stupid that people travel without guidebooks?

I don't really see much need for them, OK for a quick browse whilst your planning your trip before you go to give you a rough idea but wouldn't actually take one with me, firstly too heavy and if you need a guidebook to tell you how to get from A to B, where to stay, where to eat, where to drink, where to visit etc then you'd probably be better off at home.

I laugh at folk I see glued to the guidebook and following its every word as if it's a bible of sorts.

 

[carl]

I laugh at folk I see glued to the guidebook and following its every word as if it's a bible of sorts.

I'm pretty sure jammy wasn't suggesting this. I think he's posting to the utility a guidebook provides someone new to a foreign area. I think you'd agree from your use of them described in your post.

I know vegan and myself introduced him to more food in Thailand than the Lonely Planet did.

 

[Jamshyd]

partly. that, and the fact that i have somehow lost interest in psychedelics. I was fascinated for some time. Quite a long time. This fascination is no more. I have moved on from that. And I rarely make discoveries any more when I read.

Well then disregard my question. I had assumed you still frequented those forums.

My point remains, is that there is no "ego-stuff" when 95% of travellers I've met between SE Asia and India unanimously agree that India has more to it than Thailand ever will.

To bring the comparison back to drug discussion for a minute - think of it this way:

"DOM is better than LSD, I know because I tried it [and you didn't]" <--- maybe "ego-stuff", yes.

"Trust me, when you smoke actual cannabis, you'll stop thinking that your local headshop's Herbal Mix is the bomb". <--- Sounds egoistic, maybe, but then you find most people agreeing with it, don't you?

You think it's stupid that people travel without guidebooks?

I don't really see much need for them, OK for a quick browse whilst your planning your trip before you go to give you a rough idea but wouldn't actually take one with me, firstly too heavy and if you need a guidebook to tell you how to get from A to B, where to stay, where to eat, where to drink, where to visit etc then you'd probably be better off at home.

I laugh at folk I see glued to the guidebook and following its every word as if it's a bible of sorts.

I'm pretty sure jammy wasn't suggesting this. I think he's posting to the utility a guidebook provides someone new to a foreign area. I think you'd agree from your use of them described in your post.

I know vegan and myself introduced him to more food in Thailand than the Lonely Planet did.

Lol, exactly.

I mean, seriously - if you're going to a country in which you know no one and cannot speak the language, nor can the locals speak English, how on Earth will you know what to do, let alone how to get there to do it, let alone safely?

Take central Asia for example. I want to go there myself. I don't speak Russian or any Turkic language. Most people there don't know English, and many don't speak Russian anymore. As such, there is very little the locals can do to help you travel.

There is very little literature on Central Asia as a whole, and very few personal accounts of travel there.

How on Earth will I do anything there without a guidebook?

When I was in Southern Asia, I noticed something. Do you know which travellers where the ones that had fell for the most scams? That's right, the ones that were too cool to read LP.

 

[Ximot]

there is something exciting about travelling to remote places where the locals are still genuinely curious about one's presence as an outsider/alien/foreigner. It is true that in the main tourist destinations in Thailand (and elsewhere) the locals are by and large pretty jaded and, in some places, downright unfriendly. But surely there are places in Thailand where this is not so.

Even though I can see its usefulness and have used it myself and will probably contunue to do so to some extent, I agree with those who laugh at the Lonely Planet. No matter how useful the info is initially, I have also found that it turns any supposedly adventurous journey into something like a farce where you're on the beaten track following a trail of footsteps... millions of footsteps... not exactly the road less travelled... it all becomes a bit themeparkish. Anyway, Lonely Planet has made backpacking available to lillions of people who would not otherwise have ventured to these places... which is nice... but actually with all those people having been there, those places are now infiltrated by hordes of ordinary Westerners who like to think they're explorers and whose presence often damages local communities on several levels as much as it brings benefits, if not more so. Myself, I am no exception... but I am aware that it may be smart not to do what the Lonely Planet says, and on occasion, to go without it and allow oneself to be touched by what is actually going on around one rather than filtering out authenticity through the lens of a guidebook that has mass appeal and "cool-status" (for a lack of a better word) . . .

 

[Jamshyd]

I partially disagree, even though I totally understand and agree with the farcical aspect of being off-the-beaten-track using a guidebook.

It seems to me that what you say is only true for places which already had an established backpacker "scene" (Like Thailand or India or all of southern Asia really).

In places like the Middle-East, where there are relatively few tourists in general (and fewer backpackers in particular), what is "off the beaten track" in guidebooks is still largely off the beaten track for most people. For example, take the West Bank (Palestine). It is in itself as off the beaten track as you can get, and so even if you do use LP there, you are still largely one of just a handful of tourists that ever go to that area, LP or not.

Thailand, on the other hand, is at the other extreme end of the scale... in that whether you use LP or not, you're still making the conscious decision to go to one of the most touristy places in the world. I know I did, at least. I never thought of myself as a pioneer when I went to Thailand.

Also, in places as especially rotten as Thailand, a guidebook doubles as a survival manual for avoiding scams. I cannot tell you how many times I was approached by someone offering me something, only to find myself thinking, "Hah, I know you're a fucking ripoff, I read about you in a book!"

Countless are the times I had met the Anti-LP pioneer-wannabes complaining about how they were scammed with something that they could have very easily avoided by getting off their high horses.

Again, I never tell people to follow guidebooks to the letter, but I think it is utter foolishness to pretend like you can travel without any guidance.

If you don't like LP, fine, just use ANY other damn guidebook! As a matter of fact, I have found books by the British publisher "Trailblazer" to be infinitely better than those published by LP (though, admittedly, there are fewer books from Trailblazer, but the two I have read were a pleasure to simply read, not just practical). These, to me, are guidebooks that are more along the lines of traditional guidebooks. Also remember that, at least with LP, there are hundreds of authors with many levels of proficiency, each LP guide is a book to be judged on its own rather as "LP".

See, the idea is not to be "pro-LP"... it is that people have, historically, always travelled using guides. The unfortunate expansion of popularity for one particular publisher (LP) seems to have created a very stupid subculture amongst backpackers of people who are so desparate to be "off the beaten track" that they decide to blindly dive in without a guide. The problem is not the guidebooks themselves (whose expansion is simply a consequence of the information age), it is that travel has simply become far more accessible to many more people. If the anti-LP pioneers were to travel as recently as the early 20th century and eschew a guide, they would simply be killed because the beaten path was the ONLY path you can walk with any hopes of getting anywhere.

 

[The_Idler]

I plan to just tap into the apparently limitless wealth of knowledge and experience of the Bluelight Globetrotters for my travelling advice...

The internet is the best source of info on almost everything, and has the added bonus of facilities for asking questions directly to those with the most relevant experiences, in almost real time.


Also...
I would very much like to visit SE Asia and India (my grandma is Indian), and I find Thailand relatively appealing to my curiosity. I understand the nature of the place, to some degree, and it is that which interests me.
I'm not going to go and expect some fantastic adventure of enlightenment, or even a break from the fast-paced, consumerist, vice-ridden lifestyle of my hometown (haha...) for a relaxing, spiritual and more collective-oriented culture (which was, yaknow, the kinda stereotypical old rap)

Despite the saddened, and even derisive, talk of the decadence, deception, and superficiality of the commercial contrivance that is the public face of Thai modern culture (apparently), it is for these very reasons that I find it such an attractive prospective location for my travels.
I'm interested in seeing this type of society. I may very well come to hate it, once I am immersed, but I have the curiosity yet.

Also, I had no idea there was so much hate for these "Lonely Planet" books (LP...),
perhaps it is a North American thing?
There are definitely people I know, who are very desperate not to be "touristy"... they tend to be teenage girls, and the type of guy, who wears those tight jeans and writes poetry.
Never heard so much stigma about a particular brand of book though!

 

[8ft-Sativa]

Details, please!

Google pics of Full Moon Party.

Here's an interesting photo-essay about the Party with a caption about "occasional rape & robbery."

The full Moon Party was pretty much 25% desperate hookers that will go so far as to spike your drink and rob you. 25% Locals with maglights scouring the beaches for anything dropped. 10% out of uniform officaers selling drugs so they can then bust and extort you and 40% actual tourists wanting too party.

It's just a joke how much scams\corruption are so thickly layered on the party.

Never again!

 

[Ximot]

even the 40% tourists aren't worthwhile meeting imho. Perhaps 10-15% of them I find interesting. For the rest might as well go to any commercial dance event anywhere in the West and you meet all the same type of folk. And they bore me even here . . . Not a valid reason to go all the way to the other wide of the planet. yeah i know, i can be a cynical bastard...

 

[Ximot]

Thailand (...) adventure of enlightenment, or even a break from the fast-paced, consumerist, vice-ridden lifestyle

if you have enough time while in thailand, and if you end up on koh pha ngan (yes, the full moon party island with the unwholesome gathering once a month that attracts local and international riff-raff) then may I kindly suggest you check out this place:

www.watkowtahm.org

It may be exactly what you're looking for. Enlightenment, a "break from the fast-paced, consumerist, vice-ridden lifestyle" . . . . it is a Buddhist temple run by nuns, up in the hills of that lovely island, and they run 10-day silent vipassana meditation retreats for really cheap... super teachers, great experience, perhaps not easy at first but ultimately very rewarding. done it many times there and will almost certainly be back.

 

[The_Idler]

wow thanks for the advice!

I mean, I wasn't even going to bother looking for traditional Buddhist culture and teaching in Thailand, that was kinda my point, but if I'm in the neighbourhood, theres nothing like a bit of sudden and absolute contrast within a culture, to stimulate my intellectual fascination with the place...

That is, it's not what I was looking for at all, but you have interested me, nonetheless.

Still, it'll probably be a while before I can travel to SE Asia, but when I do, I'll be asking here for travel advice, and hopefully you'll still be around to remind me. =]

 

[Ximot]

dude, you're being a tad complacent there.. haha. either you want it, or you don't.

if you ever happen to go, be sure to check the place out, i love it. but check beforehand, they run strict schedules... retreats start at specific times... it's not a drop-in type of place. well worth it, really, though. I will go again, no doubt.

www.watkowtahm.org there's yer reminder now

 

[The_Idler]

well, i just mean I don't know, because I'd never considered it before, but I will.

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

How does "Full Moon Party" differ than Goa Beach?

 

[Mariposa]

dude, you're being a tad complacent there.. haha. either you want it, or you don't.

if you ever happen to go, be sure to check the place out, i love it. but check beforehand, they run strict schedules... retreats start at specific times... it's not a drop-in type of place. well worth it, really, though. I will go again, no doubt.

www.watkowtahm.org there's yer reminder now

I just submitted a detailed inquiry for a 2010 trip. I have never been to Asia and my boyfriend has never been out of the country.

10 days of fasting/meditation/etc should kick a little much-needed discipline into both of us. This looks absolutely wonderful and rewarding!

 

[Ximot]

/\ they don't allow fasting during the retreats... i have in the past done a week of fasting before going to the retreat. helped the meditation nicely.

 

[8ft-Sativa]

I walked around Kolkuta (sp?) for nearly a full 10 hours and saw a total of 4 tourists!

And what's even more better NO SEX TOURISTS AND IN YOUR FACE HOOKERS. This place is really a jungle and when i look back on the 8-9 months I have spent in S.E.A I can see now how much that whole backpacker scene is artificial.

Don't get me started on the fresh mango smoothies here I could write a full novel on how fucking amazing they taste!