Kratom The Kratom Megathread

[f33lg00d]

Personally I can get away with avoiding dependence dosing once a day, but I recommend every other or every third; dosing all the time isn't really rewarding so it's good motivation to break dependence if you develop it.

Also oxycodone, hydrocodone, and "opium" highly doubtful you actually got opium, are definitely hard opioids.

1) it does but it also as stimulant chemicals in it so the net effect is kinda neutral but it depends on the batch/strain/extract

 

[Mycophile]

Personally I can get away with avoiding dependence dosing once a day, but I recommend every other or every third; dosing all the time isn't really rewarding so it's good motivation to break dependence if you develop it.

Also oxycodone, hydrocodone, and "opium" highly doubtful you actually got opium, are definitely hard opioids.

1) it does but it also as stimulant chemicals in it so the net effect is kinda neutral but it depends on the batch/strain/extract

Wait, so you take it every day and you aren't addicted?

I thought it was too addictive for that.

For hard opiods, I cause I just meant even harder like Heroin and Dilaudid (is that an opiate?).

As far as the opium, I don't know how "real" it was, but we used to smoke it all the time in college and it got us high but it might just have been really weak in comparison to truly good opium.

We did sometimes get even worse stuff which we recognized as fake and called "soapium" lol, but my friends knew their drugs pretty well and thought it was real stuff that we usually got.


However, Captain Kratom said that Kratom does NOT cause CNS depression, so now I will have to find out which one of you is right.

And when you say that it "has stimulant chemicals in it" do you mean ONLY the stimulating green and white strains or are you saying that even the sedating and red veins have stimulants in them that prevent respiratory depression??

Either way, I just want to know that if I use Kratom while on my Klonopin and Prozac (and possibly melatonin at night) that I won't get respiratory depression.

CK said there's nothing to worry about, and I pretty much believe him, but of course I want as many educated opinions as possible before trying it to be sure, especially some good links to solid sources.

 

[Flaga121]

I take multiple doses daily and the w/d are a joke honestly. I quit and recommit regularly for tolerance reasons. Huge fan of the Kratom at the moment.

 

[Mycophile]

I take multiple doses daily and the w/d are a joke honestly. I quit and recommit regularly for tolerance reasons. Huge fan of the Kratom at the moment.

Well that's good news.

However, I'm going to have to consider you not to be the norm, because so far in reading this thread and elsewhere on here I hear lots of people talking about how hard the withdrawals are for them.

I don't know if they are all dosing multiple times a day or if you just deal with the withdrawals better than most.

But at least it's one vote in the book for trying Kratom.

I still want to hear what as many others as possible have to say though and read some legit sources about it's safety in combination with my meds.

So, for you personally do you feel that Kratom is a much more functional high than Percocet or Vicodin?

Because those don't make me want to do anything but lie on the couch, but I was told that because Kratom is also stimulating and that it lends itself more to helping people function and do work and other important stuff.

 

[f33lg00d]

Yeah I don't get wds unless I dose multiple times a day, and personally (compared to my heroin wds) kratom wds are so easy.

 

[《Plasticity》]

1x every day is more than enough to cause dependancy in the great majority of people... let's not forget this is a harm reduction site, not saying you were telling anyone that it's a good idea to use that regimine though, it's far more likely than not to end in dependancy, in fact your the only person I've heard that can take kratom everyday and not get hooked....consider yourself very lucky. I took kratom once daily for around a month and that caused started my dependancy. As a rule, it would be best to stick to the 2-3x a week with at least 2 days in between doses,1 occasionally.

I would agree, the withdrawals aren't too bad. However, let's not throw away the fact that mycophile has trouble with caffeine withdrawal though, kratom withdrawal is definately worse than coffee withdrawal. Also, there seem to be a quite a few who just get nasty withdrawals from kratom so ymmv. I would try your best to avoid dependancy if you really don't want to have the possibility of dealing with harsh withdrawals, though IME I find the benefits of daily use to far outweigh the week of uncomfort . I don't have time to respond to your PM's tonight but I promise I'll get back to you tommorow... In reality though at some point your gonna have to do some reading and make your own decision, only you know your limits, I will say though that the more I talk to you the more you seem to doubt yourself...maybe it would be best in the end if you just don't go there, that's a decision only you can make. If used correctly though it can really give you a motivational push.

Ps. To clarify plain leaf causes little to no resp depression, strong extracts have potential though (I don't think I ever said it causes zero resp depression as if it were set in stone, just VERY insignificant to the point I've never even had problems mixing kratom with high doses of benzos....it's quite fascinating), you don't have to worry about kratom affecting any of your medications though, that's for sure...especially if your tolerant.... Also there are stimulant alkaloids in EVERY strain, it's just the different ratios that make up the strains character of effects.

PPS. Your not gonna find access to many usefull studies for the great majority of the questions you ask. Just studies on how it's used to wean people off other drugs, it's metabolic process, an case reports of that stupid o-DT laced 'krypton' kratom that hit the headshops. I tried looking for you, I think this site has about as big a list that you'll find publically...read them closely, there's one that titles the article to make it seem like kratom caused a death but if you read the person had like morphine and amphetamines and other shit in his system . Your gonna have to go on personal experiences, the small 2-3 (iirc) cases of liver problems, and the fact that there have been no deaths attributed to kratom solely.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=488576

 

[shanlin]

hi i need help. im kicking a habiy of 30mg of opiates a day never more. an 8 year addiction. im on day 5 clean and using kratom, from your experiences, how should i be feeling. please help

 

[cdin]

also to note re kratom and withdrawal, there's a nice thread in NPDD about harmala alkaloids in specific relation to kratom withdrawal. I'm currently sitting in my room after taking 16g krat yesterday, contemplating not dosing, or at LEAST dosing a MUCH lower dose to move towards quitting after taking a 6g dose of caapi vine extract. Pretty incredible, best withdrawal aid i've ever found hands down. I think it works specifically better for kratom than standard opiates. (just my experience)

 

[Numb19]

Can anyone help with Kratom measuring for someone who would take 120mg-160mg for oxycodone at one time?

Considering hasn't taken any opiates in 7 days and don't plan to for a while. But been reading more and more about Kratom...

Does anyone know if one can reduce their opiate tolerance with Kratom?

Thanks!

 

[《Plasticity》]

^ at that dose you would be lucky if kratom even puts a significant dent in your withdrawal, but like you say you plan on letting your tolerance go down so I would wait maybe another week and try 5 grams and go from there... start too high and you'll just make yourself sick. If you switch to kratom your tolerance should still drop but kratom isn't exactly lowering your tolerance, it's just not providing the mu agonism your body is used too, ymmv.

In response to using harmala for withdrawal....yuck lol. I'm sure it beats withdrawal but I couldn't bring myself to take that shit everyday, that stuff makes me sick and interacts with too much for comfort...well that's just me though because I enjoy serotonergic psychedelics and empathogens. If anyone is going to try this method make sure your not on any SSRI's, SRI's, SNRI's, and SRA/TRA's like MDMA.

 

[Numb19]

^ at that dose you would be lucky if kratom even puts a significant dent in your withdrawal, but like you say you plan on letting your tolerance go down so I would wait maybe another week and try 5 grams and go from there... start too high and you'll just make yourself sick. If you switch to kratom your tolerance should still drop but kratom isn't exactly lowering your tolerance, it's just not providing the mu agonism your body is used too, ymmv.

In response to using harmala for withdrawal....yuck lol. I'm sure it beats withdrawal but I couldn't bring myself to take that shit everyday, that stuff makes me sick and interacts with too much for comfort...well that's just me though because I enjoy serotonergic psychedelics and empathogens. If anyone is going to try this method make sure your not on any SSRI's, SRI's, SNRI's, and SRA/TRA's like MDMA.

Thanks for the reply...I'm actually not in withdrawal now. I slowly detoxed about two weeks ago and now I'm out of the woods (took opiates twice in the last 11 days and none in the past seven days).

Would you still recommend waiting another week? I was thinking about hitting up a local shop today to grab 10gr of "Bali"...

 

[《Plasticity》]

Tbh, my recommendation would be to just not take anything. Kratom will throw you back into withdrawal, harsher than just plain kratom withdrawal going by what others say... I would only switch to kratom if you have no intentions of staying clean, otherwise don't expect to be able to abuse kratom and not go back into withdrawal, kratom is a mu agonist. Also, headshop kratom is usually shit and 10gs is not much, I don't see this ending well. I would imagine that you would eat those two doses up, get sent back into withdrawal, and have nothing to fall back on (I would assume). If you really wanna make the switch order around 4oz for probably not too far away for what your paying for that 10gs. Hope this helps, just be prepared for the possibility and have something to fsll back on... it just doesn't sound worth it though. Enjoy your clean time, I know your probably craving any sort of opioid but this doesn't sound like a smart approach.

 

[Numb19]

Thanks for the info CK, much appreciated.

If one is no longer in withdrawal, no symptoms, eating and sleeping fine etc. how would one or two cups of Kratom tea throw them back into withdrawal?

I hear what you're saying though. I'm not intending on abusing Kratom...but it's always a fine line and only takes a few days in a row before taking it just to prevent withdrawal and it might be even worse because Kratom is so much more readily available, no need to see the Dr., count pills etc.

And I wouldn't be going to a headshop...it's a shop that specializes in "sacred entheogens" as they call it and they only sell plants, seeds, herbs and extracts. I looked up some reviews and it seems legit but I guess you still never know.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Well dude, your only 7 days clean... your not really in the clear yet. If I withdrawal from kratom and take even two doses after only a couple days of being in the clear I will be sent back into withdrawal, I can't imagine the same would't apply to an opioid addict. If you wanna give it a shot have at it, I would personally wait a lil bit longer if you want to start chipping on kratom occasionally. I've never heard of an entheogen shop but I would still imagine your gonna be paying alot more than you would online. Price discussion isn't allowed, PM me if you want more info. If your not serious about quitting, wait another week for tolerance to drop a bit more and just make the switch to kratom. I'm not sure how fast oxy tolerance drops but I would imagine at your dose that your tolerance is not low enough to get a strong buzz on kratom, it's effects seem to top out at around 30mgs of oxy IME, ymmv.

 

[Numb19]

Thanks again CK...I actually started my detox on April 3rd and that was a very rough week. Also, my WD seems to be very mild compared to what I read from others (no vomiting or diarrhea etc.) and I think my physical conditioning has a lot to do with this. So while I am 7 days now without taking any opiates, I haven't been in withdrawal. I'm not trying to fool myself but having said that I feel so much better now compared to the week of April 3rd when I was in WD that it might be difficult to gauge any small lingering or residual effects of the WD. What I can tell you is that I really like Oxycodone but now something changed...I have access to my meds but simply do not want to take them anymore until my tolerance drops. If any kind of craving does come I become turned off the idea once I recall my tolerance. I'm actually pissed off about it...but right now I'm eating like a horse, sleeping rather well, and hitting the gym almost everyday for high-intensity workouts...enjoying life in general. I know what withdrawal is for me and I am definitely not in it.

I'm not expecting the same from Kratom as I would from Oxy. I just am looking for something to help me if need be until my tolerance can go down.

I probably should have mentioned that I do get opiates prescribed to me so I will likely need to take them again for my back...irresponsibility has led me to a high tolerance now and this is what I need to fix. I call it irresponsibility but many of us know the difficulty of having to take opiates for numerous days for pain and then it somewhere along the line becomes blurred into the dark spiral of just preventing sickness, which then adds to the tolerance etc.

In the meantime, I'm hoping that Kratom from time to time can provide me some degree of relief and if anything take the edge off. So I guess the best way for me to explain it is that I intend on getting back to being responsible with my medication and to do this I need to get my tolerance down. I have taken month-long breaks before.

I will PM you the link of the shop and we can carry on there...and again your assistance has been much appreciated.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

By send you back into withdrawls to you mean push you back to the beginning of your progress?

 

[Hammilton]

I think so.

I was almost free of withdrawals from subs and oxy. I went on a uei bender and now I'm going through the rls all over again, among other symptoms.

 

[FlawedByDesign]

So does loperamide actually help those of you in kratom w/d? I know the obvious answer is probably yes but I can't seem to figure out why it doesn't work for me. I just went through 2 days of some pretty hellish w/d after burning through a pounder in week or so and lope didnt so shit for me. Taking even 6mgs only gave me some pretty bad cramps. On a side note, to those of you suffer from rls and insomnia I highly recommend Levo- tetrahyrdropalmatine(L-THP). Its a supplement found online that is derived from the Corydalis plant which the chinese been using for centuries to combat w/d. It seems odd to me that it is unknown to this community. It's a godsend for insomnia that doesn't seem to be the least bit addictive.

 

[Mycophile]

Ok,

There's still a few things I want to understand about Kratom before I know whether or not I feel like trying it:

IF I do try it, I am thinking I would space things out like CK said, dosing only a couple times twice a week.

1) If I were to do this, and at some point I got withdrawal symptoms, would they be minor at first or would they come on full bore?

2) Would I know I was experiencing very minor withdrawal?

3) What would some of the symptoms most likely be?


Also:

I've taken about 30-35mgs of Oxycodone once a day about 3 days a week over the course of about 6 weeks twice and I did not get addicted.

4) Would Kratom most likely have me hooked by that point or are Oxy and Hydrocodone more physically addictive than Kratom?


It's one thing if I tried Kratom for a couple weeks and I could know that if I went too far and took too much that I would start to notice some very Minor withdrawals of some kind like minor aches and sniffles and be able to identify them and say to myself "ok, I went too far, these would be the very beginning of Withdrawal if I don't slow down so I better slow down".

If that's how things would probably happen, I'd be much more likely to try Kratom.

What I DON'T want, is to one day binge, which I am VERY likely to do at some point if I have a lot, and then wake up the next day with severe nauseau, chills, burning skin, running nose, and possibly puking or feeling like I want to just cause one week I decided to up my dosage to 3 or 4 days a week vs 2, or simply dosed too many times or too many grams on one day.

If the latter is something that would have a very realistic chance of happening, then I am not going to try Kratom and I would like as many opinions as possible concerning how people feel about this.

The problem seems to be though, that about 90% of the people here have gone through some form of Opiate withdrawals or Heroin withdrawal and want to compare how easy their Kratom WDs are to their heroin or oxy or Suboxone withdrawals and I have NEVER GONE THROUGH THOSE!!

So PLEASE people, if you are going to respond to this, DON'T compare Kratom WDs with other Opiate WD symptoms, because I've only gone through Caffeine withdrawal and the VERY minor experience of weed withdrawal.

I have not had WDs from other substances, and I don't want any.

Thanks

 

[Mycophile]

So does loperamide actually help those of you in kratom w/d? I know the obvious answer is probably yes but I can't seem to figure out why it doesn't work for me. I just went through 2 days of some pretty hellish w/d after burning through a pounder in week or so and lope didnt so shit for me. Taking even 6mgs only gave me some pretty bad cramps.

Do you think you could respond to my last post possibly?

I want as many opinions as possible before knowing if I want to try Kratom.

What were your withdrawal symptoms like and what were they?

Have you been able to tough them out and be functional at work and so forth without the use of any substances to help with them?

Thanks