The Ketamine Discussion thread

[floatingaround]

Funny how everyone seems to be saying the same thing with IV K. I have also IVed my fair share and never got completely k holed. I've done smaller doses of mxe intranasally and disassociated more so then the times I used IV K. Pretty odd..

 

[poledriver]

How'd you know it was even k if you'd never had it before? Was your mate familiar with k?

Told by the person who we bought them off in the days after when we complained. And the effects seemed nothing like MDMA and alot like K. Cant be 100% sure I guess as they weren't tested.

It wasnt a feeling I really enjoyed much to be honest, not something I wont to experience again.

 

[pisspotnrock]

How the fuxk did your not khole from a point IV?

I semi hole from 80mg nasally.

Either you got a mad tolerance or yo shit is cut

yeah bit weird.. I only picked up 3 points due to availability but yeah, still havnt K-holed.. no doubt it was cut but after registering n plundgin the fucker, was just a pallet full of confusion till it wore off...

wierd ay?

ketamine is a strange drug, just like MXE.. just straight out wierd shit....

 

[One Thousand Words]

I was always under the impression that IM is a better option than IVing ketamine. The duration is longer with very little difference in intensity plus you don't have the rapid onset that sees you crash with a vein exposed.

 

[Crankinit]

I was always under the impression that IM is a better option than IVing ketamine. The duration is longer with very little difference in intensity plus you don't have the rapid onset that sees you crash with a vein exposed.

I actually found there to be a noticable difference in intensity, and the onset is 20 - 30 seconds or so, more than enough time to pull your needle out, cap it, hold a cotton ball down on the injection site and lie down.

 

[One Thousand Words]

You easily k hole via IM so how much more "intense" do you need?, With IM the progression to this point is gentler, almost a soft landing but that doesn't then mean the intensity is greater, just more sudden. I don't see any sense in promoting IVing when for this drug IM still enables you to k hole.

 

[Sweet Jones]

anyone know if there are any risks involved combining seroquel and ketamine? tomorrow im gonna trip (LSD) and probably get through a large amount of ketamine too, and use seroquel to put me out at the end of the night. couldn't find anything on k+seroquel

 

[Crankinit]

You easily k hole via IM so how much more "intense" do you need?, With IM the progression to this point is gentler, almost a soft landing but that doesn't then mean the intensity is greater, just more sudden. I don't see any sense in promoting IVing when for this drug IM still enables you to k hole.

'Easily' is relative. The problem with K is the half life, even though the BA from IM is only marginally lower, the half life is so short that with the 10 minute delay and slower peak from IMing, you get a much lower peak level of the drug in your blood. IV use not only circumvents this problem resulting in a more efficient high, but the swift peak and subsequent swift clearance provides much finer control over the experience.

I'm not 'promoting' anything, just giving an honest account of my experiences. Should I pretend that there are absolutely no benefits to IV use and perpetuate stupid myths about k-holing with the needle still inserted just to try and scare people away from it?

 

[lovepsychadelics]

How much would I have snorted if I snorted a pill (approx?) ? Me and a mate got pills years and years ago and snorted the whole thing each thinking it was an E, and anyway we went into a massive K-hole. It was fucking intense, but was the first and only time i've ever had ket.

Would not have been a pinkish colored pill with a bee image or something to that effect stamped on it? I recall some pills I got late 99 or early 2000 that were K fucking land. I snorted like 1/2 and was there, snorted the other half and by the time I got to the club I was FUCKED. I did K now and then so I was prepared for what came next but it was one of the most intense K experiences of my life. Thought I saw all kinds of crazy shit... maybe I did, maybe I didn't but I could barely walk let alone dance lol.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

anyone know if there are any risks involved combining seroquel and ketamine? tomorrow im gonna trip (LSD) and probably get through a large amount of ketamine too, and use seroquel to put me out at the end of the night. couldn't find anything on k+seroquel

Ok so probably a day late but anyway: Seroquel aka Quetiapine is not as user friendly as typical benzo's (despite being a distant inbred relative). One issue is quetiapine may lower seizure threshold. Another is neuroleptic malignant syndrome a rare and potentially fatal complication. It is characterised by the following symptoms: tremor, rigidity, hyperthermia, tachycardia, mental status changes (e.g. confusion), etc. So a brief outline of receptor site activity:

D1 (IC50 = 1268nM), D2 (IC50 = 329nM), D3, and D4 receptor antagonist
5-HT1A (IC50 = 717nM) partial agonist, 5-HT2A (IC50 = 148nM), 5-HT2C, and 5-HT7 receptor antagonist
α1-adrenergic (IC50 = 94nM) and α2-adrenergic receptor (IC50 = 271nM) antagonist
H1 receptor (IC50 = 30nM) antagonist
mACh receptor (IC50 = >5000nM) antagonist

As you can see it has antagonist action with dopamine, serotonin and adrenergic activity. A small amount of Quetiapine (25 mg) is probably ok at the end of the evening for sleep. LSD and K are not great in combination as LSD due to it's mode of action tends to raise body temp combined with K reducing your ability to sweat ok if your careful with doses but I know what happens when you have a gram of K and a few tabs of LSD and party mode switch is on. Hyperthermia may result. Also LSD and K may result in serotonin syndrome if dosed excessively. Add seroquel and shit may go from bad to worse. 25-50 mg after the LSD has worn off and the K has run out and sleep is desired and a few dozen cones smoked might be ok but I'd be careful. No way in hell would I advise any greater than 50 mg and even then it's with a great deal of hesitation considering that K can cause neuro toxicity for 24 hours post ingestion and you have LSD being metabolized and excreted as well.

Hope everything turned out fine and you don't have serotonin syndrome/toxicity, got a good night/days sleep and everything went well and most important you had fun.

Going to give IVing K a go just to try it out. Don't IV anything these days but never IV'd K due to the whole druggie lore re: hits so hard the pick will still be in there. Can get some really pure shit atm so why the hell not? At least then I can give an objective and subjective report on this ROA.

 

[Sweet Jones]

Thanks for the great info lovepsychadelics. I didn't end up having any K on NYE as it didn't arrive in time but on your advice I think I will avoid K + seroquel altogether

 

[One Thousand Words]

'Easily' is relative. The problem with K is the half life, even though the BA from IM is only marginally lower, the half life is so short that with the 10 minute delay and slower peak from IMing, you get a much lower peak level of the drug in your blood. IV use not only circumvents this problem resulting in a more efficient high, but the swift peak and subsequent swift clearance provides much finer control over the experience.

I'm not 'promoting' anything, just giving an honest account of my experiences. Should I pretend that there are absolutely no benefits to IV use and perpetuate stupid myths about k-holing with the needle still inserted just to try and scare people away from it?

You shouldn't promote a method that is exponentially more dangerous. A "K hole" is a window of intoxication. There is no benefit in a higher dose as once you over shoot this window you black out or worse go into respiratory depression/death. The relative number of accidental deaths IVing compared to IM is reason enough to avoid such a method. It is silly to compare the rush you get with a drug such as meth or heroin to the sudden onset of ketamine via IV.

 

[Crankinit]

You shouldn't promote a method that is exponentially more dangerous.

Let me say it again, I'm not promoting anything, what I am doing is being honest about my experiences in the interest of clearing up myths and misconceptions. Harm reduction has to start from a place of truth, honesty and openness, anything less creates more problems than it solves. Bad information leads to bad decisions, and the idea that we should intentionally mislead people about the effects and dangers of drugs in an attempt to discourage them from using them is part of what got our society into such a huge mess with prohibition in the first place.

A "K hole" is a window of intoxication. There is no benefit in a higher dose as once you over shoot this window you black out or worse go into respiratory depression/death.

I never made any specific comments regarding or advocating specific doses because it's such a variable factor.

The relative number of accidental deaths IVing compared to IM is reason enough to avoid such a method.

Do you have any statistics on this?

It is silly to compare the rush you get with a drug such as meth or heroin to the sudden onset of ketamine via IV.

Where did I do this?

 

[One Thousand Words]

10 yrs of bluelight ketamine threads all agree that more people overshoot iving than IM. There simply no reason to when the safety of IM is proven. A k hole is a k hole, there is no difference in intensity, it is irresponsible to suggest otherwise. IM gives you a slow build up, IV doesn't. You are at far greater risk of respiratory depression iving

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/94699-Ketamine-Subthread-IV-vs-IM-comparisons

This is a good reason not to IV

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...t-time-A-virtual-trip-to-the-mental-home!!?s=

 

[Crankinit]

10 yrs of bluelight ketamine threads all agree that more people overshoot iving than IM.

10 years repeating the same baseless myth. I've met a lot of people who say 'never IV K, you'll pass out with the needle in your arm!' but none of them who have ever actually IV'd K. It belongs in the same category as 'LSD will build up in your spinal cord!' or 'ecstasy eats holes in your brain!'

A k hole is a k hole, there is no difference in intensity, it is irresponsible to suggest otherwise.

You could apply this logic to any drug. A nod is a nod - so why inject heroin when you can snort it? Why smoke meth when you can eat it?

IV use of ketamine doesn't necessarily increase the effects of the drug qualitatively, but it is absolutely more efficient than IM and, imo, gives a much greater level of control over the experience. I'm not saying this is a good reason to go out and IV, as there are plenty of real risks and real downsides, but to make that choice for themselves people first need to know the facts.

You are at far greater risk of respiratory depression iving

Nonsense. If you use a dose which is calibrated to provide the same level of peak effect, then you'll experience the same level of respiratory depression as you would when IMing. A fairly negligible level, at that - the vast majority of deaths involving ketamine are due to either polydrug use or passing out/losing motor control in dangerous situations (K-hole in the bath, etc).

What it boils down to is that you're saying I should straight up lie in an effort to exaggerate the dangers of ketamine injection, which is not only insulting but counterproductive towards the goal of harm reduction. People can only be lied to so often before they start discounting advice entirely, if we want harm reduction to make a difference, we need to start by being honest and factual.

 

[One Thousand Words]

How is it more efficient when the duration is so much shorter? If a k hole is what you are trying to achieve then it just doesn't make sense to IV when the only noticeable difference is the rapid onset. This doesn't make it better and to advocate iving over Im is simply dick sizing in the most irresponsible manner.

 

[Abject]

Quality post as per usual, Crankinit.
Inability to address points and a useless post as per usual, Busty.

 

[Crankinit]

How is it more efficient when the duration is so much shorter? If a k hole is what you are trying to achieve then it just doesn't make sense to IV when the only noticeable difference is the rapid onset. This doesn't make it better and to advocate iving over Im is simply dick sizing in the most irresponsible manner.

Because IM kicks in over a long period, instead of all at once, the low half life means that by the time time the last part of your dose is kicking in, the first part is already being metabolized out of your system, meaning the effects don't peak as high as they do when you IV although, as you mentioned, you get a longer duration. This means that the dose required to K-Hole while IMing is noticeably higher than the dose required to do so while IVing. At least in my experience, I can't speak for anyone else.

Perhaps 'efficient' isn't the right word, but the threshold for a K-Hole is lower with IV than it is with IM, whatever you want to call that.

 

[One Thousand Words]

10-15 minutes vs up to an hour. Not to mention a lot if the time you overshoot into anaesthesia and come out of it without even experiencing a k hole. I simply don't see the benefit

 

[Crankinit]

10-15 minutes vs up to an hour.

It was more than 10 - 15m, closer to 30, or a bit over, compared to maybe 45 for IM. Personally I prefer the shorter, more compacted experience, and because it's more compacted, you don't have as much to worry about as far as the drug lingering in your system and compounding your next dose.

Not to mention a lot if the time you overshoot into anaesthesia and come out of it without even experiencing a k hole.

This is an issue of careful dosing and purity, not ROA. It could just as easily happen while IMing (although it never happened to me with either ROA).

I simply don't see the benefit

You're missing the point. I'm not trying to objectively weigh the two and make a suggestion either way, just providing my experiences.