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The issue of self-defense while on a strict path of nonviolence

rangrz said:
I think its fine to defend yourself, or your country, group, or anyone else from violence by using violence.

amnesty international did not get women the right to vote in Afghanistan, I did, along with my comrades who where prepared to do horrible things so that they can end, and a new start can happen.
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What? "Right to vote"? Voting in Afghanistan is probably as meaningless as voting in the USA; the elections are rigged.
 
interesting thread.

a question just for the sake of conversation.

-if you have the means to physically stop someone from being harmed but do not, in order to avoid violence, are you not enabling violence through your actions (or lack there of?)
 
doesntmatter, that's a brilliant question that's been answered both ways by various non-violence doctrines over time. Like veganism, it's hard to know where to draw the line.

I think that since you cannot predict what will happen without your violent intervention, you shouldn't intervene. You may think you're stopping someone from being harmed, but you might not.
 
Heuristic said:
My own view is that it is actually unethical NOT to use violence in self-defense, when necessary.
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i agree

tho i will point out that it mention when necessary


non violence is cool up to a point, but when it comes to rape, torture and murder its not the same

i was watching two short documentary yesterday, one about sex slave child in india and one about women getting kidnapped, raped, tortured and killed in mexico and the talk about using your superior aikido skill seem out of place in some regard.. (since mostly no one has them)

if you live on a farm and there is a beast eating your children and attacking your family its your duty to protect them, and feed them and love them, whatever comes in the way of your survival it is your duty to protect them n yourself against it


i eat meat, lots of animal suffer for that, i impose that on them, i also buy cheap labor stuff, i mean im exploiting other human being for the sake of paying cheaper, the world we live in is filled with violence, and i participate in it for my own well being..

when it come to self defense it seem primordial to defend myself against a aggressor, the violence that is present is the one that the aggressor brought along, it aint mine, im returning it to the aggressor, its self defense

MyDoorsAreOpen said:
dim view on the use of violence, and use voluntary abstinence from violence, coercion, aggression, and overall harm to living things
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it aint by letting someone else (police, military..) deal with a aggressor that it will help you in your spiritual development, you are still part of the process of violence being use to stop a aggressor


anyway :\
 
Coolio said:
I disagree Heuristic. It's better to let yourself be killed than to cause harm for any reason. Martyrdom is the ultimate ethical act.
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Deffinatly dissagree here. It deppends on what the martyrdom will achieve. Is it better for you to die and let the attacker go on to commit more crimes? Would it not be better to use proportional force to aprehend the attacker so that they can be punished for their crimes. Further I think human life is sacred, and to sacrifice your self for no real gain is a great shame.
 
I'm on a plane right now (fucking win, military planes with satellite internet) to get a captured female party whom we know is being raped and tortured.

say what you want, but I aint gonna feel bad when I fire 3 5.56mm's into her captors chest.
 
oh noez the grapes of wrath!!

rangrz said:
I'm on a plane right now (fucking win, military planes with satellite internet) to get a captured female party whom we know is being raped and tortured.

say what you want, but I aint gonna feel bad when I fire 3 5.56mm's into her captors chest.
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dont forget the shitty brew bru :P lulz we get finely fucked up when u get back :) =D

b safe!
 
*saved from prune Nov 2010*

If one is in danger of being maimed or killed, even if it violates their precepts I think it very likely they will move towards eliminating the threat or dodging it if possible. Terror overrides almost all other cognitive functions. A person with military, police, or martial arts training is probably less likely to move to kill in a seriously threatened situation because one of the points of drills is to implant a ready plan for a person to use, many of these drills are aimed foremost at stopping power rather than inflecting damage or producing a fatality.

It is right to cancel a check that was stolen. It is right to restrain a toddler from running into traffic. It is right to stop someone from inflicting damage on people and property. The intent does not need to be to kill or maim. Threat neutralization is an acceptable goal. Violence is an acceptable means especially when no other means is available. If lifestyle or profession causes one to be in harms way a lot someone should get good at neutralizing threats and smart about minimizing exposure to such things.

I'm thinking bouncers who have been at it a long time without injury have done so as much by an inclination to defuse as much as an ability to handle themselves when violence happens. Even large, tough, well trained fighters are at some risk every time there is a "showdown". Lowering the number of times things come to full out crisis is better odds of avoiding injury as well as legal entanglements.
 
i used to be violent and aggressive, and i would get into fights and arguments often. but then i decided to change, to be peaceful and shanti, and to give my left cheek if one slapped my right. at least i was 100% percent ready to do so, til now.
now the magic thing is that when you change for good, the universe/god sees it and just doesn't make you face these kind of situations because you understood the lesson of life.
i didnt get into a fight til that and if i have an argument with someone, i don't start it ever, and i usually don't have anything to do because it sorts itself out alone.
magic!

ok gandhi got killed when he was THE non-violent man. but you know what gandhi did when he died? he joined his hands on his heart, its a sign of great respect in india, addressed to the guy who shot him. his killer made him and his ideas immortal.
gandhi was a great man, and great men do not live long in this mundane world :P

just believe truthfully that Jah will protect and provide. then you should not worry anymore.
 
What if by your actions in abstaining from an act violence, you precipitate an even greater act of violence? Pretty tough call, for one mortal to weigh all the possible futures in a split second, while under duress. I guess you got to do what you feel is right at the time, in spite of any ultimatums you've made to yourself earlier.
 
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