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The ISIS Megathread

Mid-East’s painted borders begin to blur

June 21, 2014 - 12:58PM

Paul McGeough

Washington: Was it ironic, or simply macabre, that former US vice-president Dick Cheney put his head above the parapet this week, to observe of Barack Obama’s handling of Iraq: “Rarely has a US President been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many”?

Maybe. Cheney is the bloke who knew that Iraq just had to be invaded in 2003 because of Saddam Hussein’s stockpiles of WMD. Yet it would be churlish to demand that he butt out of the debate, because Cheney knows a thing or two about Iraq – here he is in 1994, at length and presciently: “Once you got to Iraq and took it over, and took down Saddam Hussein’s government, then what are you going to put in its place? That’s a very volatile part of the world, and if you take down the central government of Iraq you can easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off. Part of it the Syrians would like to have to the west. Part of eastern Iraq, the Iranians would like to claim, fought over for eight years. In the north you’ve got the Kurds, and if the Kurds spin loose and join with the Kurds in Turkey, then you threaten the territorial integrity of Turkey. It’s a quagmire.”

We’ve been talking about bits and pieces of Iraq flying off probably since the day after Britain’s Mark Sykes and France’s François Georges-Picot struck a deal on how to carve up the region should the Ottoman Empire collapse as a result of World War I.

Their map has a wonderful old-world charm, with its colour-washed spheres of influence – French (blue), British (pink), Italian (green) and two others, Russian and ‘international’ (which are slightly different shades of a mustardy hue). And of course, there are areas A and B which are identified as ‘independent Arab states’ – A, which was to become Syria being in the French sphere; and B which became Iraq in the British sphere.

More recently, we’ve had the Ralph Peters map – a former American military officer who chopped up the whole region in an effort that was published in the US Armed Forces Journal in 2006. Peters happily dismembers Iraq, but Syria, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia too.

US foreign affairs analysts Jeffrey Goldberg in The Atlantic (2008) and Robin Wright in The New York Times (2013) went for broke in their cartography too – Wright’s offering was provocatively titled "How 5 Countries Could Become 14". By contrast, US vice-president Joe Biden was more modest in the early days of the Obama administration – he wanted to put a meat-cleaver through Iraq to create three states – one for each of the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds.

The latest map offering comes from ISIL – the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant – an Iraqi-led al-Qaeda spin-off that has joined with other Iraqi Sunni militias and international volunteers to take cities in the north of Iraq and to set their sights on Baghdad and beyond.

ISIL’s unnamed cartographers carve out the movement’s proposed intermediate caliphate straddling the border between Syria and Iraq – replete with oil wells.

The term ‘perfect storm’ is overused, but how else to describe this heady mix of geopolitical enablers for the chaos in today’s Middle East – the Cold War ends; the development of alternate energy sources diminishes the strategic value of the region; Washington insists on the strategic brilliance of invading Iraq; the Arab Spring comes and goes, rendering Syria and Libya ripe for dismantling; and Washington’s hand-picked Shiite leader Nouri al-Maliki effectively disenfranchises the country’s significant Sunni minority.

Not surprisingly, much of the debate about countries breaking up in the last decade focused on Iraq. Remember all the talk of a greenfields site for democracy in the Middle East, how it would be a multi-ethnic and sectarian model for how different types should get along in a fractious region?

But the construct with which the Bush Administration saddled Iraqis after leading the invasion that forced the collapse of the regime of Saddam Hussein was unsustainable – so it was only ever a matter of when, not if, we might see events as they are unfolding today.

Now three is the magic number. Wright sees Libya torn three ways by tribal and regional rivalries – he names these new countries Tripolitania, Fezzan and Cyrenaica. In Syria, the incendiary forces at work are sectarian and ethnic – Wright envisages the dictator Bashar al-Assad’s minority Alawites retreating to their ancestral lands in a mountain strip that hugs the Mediterranean and the Sunni regions in the east joining their co-religionists in the west of Iraq.

The big winners amid so much speculation are the Kurds – a band of Kurdish communities hugging the northern border of Syria will likely want to join the Kurds of Iraq in their economically booming semi-autonomous statelet in the north of Iraq. And if they do, what becomes of the Kurds in adjoining booming regions of Turkey and Iran?
If all the Kurds came together, they would be a nation of maybe 30 million.

Just as the invasion of Iraq has had unintended consequences for Washington, so too has Saudi Arabia’s support for the Sunni rebels in Syria.

Writing at New Eastern Outlook, analyst Alexander Orlov observes tartly that the "Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia and Qatar" did not understand that they would awaken national movements and exacerbate the age-old Sunni-Shiite conflict by escalating the Syrian conflict: “The redrawing of the map of the region is fraught with the collapse of the monarchies of Arabia and the replacement of their conservative regimes that observe the norms of 17th-century Islam with democratic governance by the younger generation.”

Barack Obama’s reluctance to involve the US in the implosion of the region – notwithstanding Thursday’s announcement that 300 American military advisers are being dispatched to Iraq – suggests a willingness to let the regional pieces fall where they may. Yet the thrust of the rhetoric from all sides in Washington and other Western capitals is that ‘stability’ requires the region to remain confined within its ill-fitting borders.

That was not the case in the days of Sykes and Picot. Their agreement is dated 1916 – it constituted forward planning based on a belief that the Ottoman Empire would have to be replaced by something. It was proactive, not reactive; and needless to say it was all about vested interests that had precious little to do with any real sense of a community of interest among the populations that were being herded within new frontiers.

Roxane Farmanfarmaian, a research fellow at London Metropolitan University’s Global Policy Institute was as prescient as Cheney, when she wrote in 2012 as Obama won election for a second term in the White House: “As Obama settles into the Oval office and casts his gaze again beyond US politics, he may well be reminded that few eyes were on the ball when the Arab uprisings appeared to erupt suddenly in the spring of 2011, catching pundits and politicians by surprise and repositioning Washington’s Middle East policies.

“Today, we may be at risk of the same inattention again – if we take our eyes off the ball now, we may miss the next big shift: a redrawing of the Middle East map that is triggering a new Cold War with Syria and Iran at its heart.”

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/mideasts-painted-borders-begin-to-blur-20140621-zsh4w.html#ixzz35HnKk5AR
 
Since this seems to be the 'Isis megathread' has anyone here seen either or both of the videos they released, completely uncensored?

Friends of mine who have seen both videos said how in both cases the videos have a lot of production and editing, the men see the knives and know what is going to happen, yet are way too calm, say a memorized speech about United States foreign policy and politicians instead of screaming, or doing anything else, and do not try to fight or even run away.

My friends who saw the uncensored videos said how the types of knives they used to perform the killings were basically large hunting knives, and how it was done way too quickly. My friends also said how in the video you do not see the head removed from the body and the film cuts out and you see the decapitated head on the body. If Isis is so violent why would they cut out the gore from the video?
 
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I've seen the video. I'm not going to throw out any alternative theories, but it seems like the IS would make it a central point to show the actual beheading, not just the before and after. They've even done it before. I can't see their PR team jumping in at the last minute and editing the video for being too terrifying.
 
yes, and why show the videos at all if you are is is?

They must have the worst propaganda minister around.
They are supposed to be showing films of how oppressed ISIS is, the women and poor children they defend, the attrocities that the west has used on them, how they are actually the victims here...

What is their "goal" here? To give 'justification' for unquestioned future response from the West? It simply makes little sense.
 
I wouldn't get out much on 9/11.. ISis stole abunch of airplanes, and i'm sure they are up to something.
 
I've seen the video. I'm not going to throw out any alternative theories, but it seems like the IS would make it a central point to show the actual beheading, not just the before and after. They've even done it before. I can't see their PR team jumping in at the last minute and editing the video for being too terrifying.

Exactly, it doesn't make sense. These are the people that behead civilians and soldiers, and put their decapitated heads in public places so why would they edit this out on both videos?

I found this article just now.

https://news.yahoo.com/israel-reveals-steven-sotloff-israeli-citizen-111600274.html

I'm not surprised he is an Israeli. Since he was an Israeli citizen he was in their military, and might have worked for Mossad and was not a "journalist" at all.

The other guy Foley apparently got kidnapped one time before, and then went back again. :? No actual civilian, or journalist would do that again unless they had a death wish.
 
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^
I found this article.
http://news.msn.com/world/jihadists-beheadings-sow-fear-prompt-muslim-revulsion

I have friends and acquaintances who are Muslim, some are from different countries, some are from here in the United States, and they are normal everyday people of all genders/races who just happen to be Muslim. The women do not wear the head scarves or the full covering in public, and they and their parents support women becoming educated, having jobs, etc.

They do not like the extreme Muslims that you hear about in the media. Or the ones that are fundamentalist who move to different countries and then want everything to be Sharia law.

One Pakistani Muslim my friend used to have as a college roommate did not pray the required number of times daily and said you could make it up, he drank alcohol and got drunk, and smoked weed at times. He did not like the extreme fundamentalist Muslims and he really did not like the Nation of Islam or the black Muslim groups only because they would claim that they are "true Islam" but only allow people of Black-African heritage to join, or in some of the American black Muslim groups you have to be completely black-African and not bi-racial have any other racial heritage at all, and in Islam people of all races join and practice that religion.
 
This 'group' are very media/social media savvy.
I have read suggestions that the self-censorship of violence and gore (...in a beheading execution video, ironically enough) could have been to more widely disseminate the footage.
This is just one of many theories, but if the intention here is to draw the US into (or, from a more cynical perspective, justify) military action in the region - the more people that saw the video via YouTube or any of the more mainstream sites it initially appeared upon, the more people it will influence.
Videos of this nature are powerful propaganda. Whether it is to scare people with their barbarism - or to convince people that a military response is justified (depends entirely on your perspecive - I don't know what to think - but I'm suspicious of this entire ISIS/ISIL/IS situation) - it seems to work exceptionally well.
Much moreso than the mass murder of a whole villiage - the political influence of a video of one or two western hostages is incredibly potent manipulation in this day and age.
The world is rightly horrified; whereas reports of mass killings are understood almost in the abstract. This isn't helped by dubious reporting and a history of western intelligence "failures" in such matters. The cynicism has been cultivated (intentionally or not) - and many people in the west are jaded about the reality of news reports from the region.

By allowing such grisly violence to be seen by more curious citizens, and editing the actual of severing the victim's head from the footage, it theoretically spread further, and has had more influence.

Alternatively, the English-speaking 'executioner' may not have done the deed himself (not exactly fitting with the overall message) - or perhaps it was performed in such a way as to appear amateurish.
Chopping off a human head with a knife may take a bit of practice...!

No matter how you look at this, and what perspective you have to begin with - it is a highly provocative piece of propaganda - and very clearly stage-managed. Like a Hollywood production...
 
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legalizeall said:
one thing is for sure, at least in my lifetime, not sure for you tho boy, America isnt going anywhere.

This statement doesn't seem particularly plausible. How old are you?

ebola
 
herp-a-derp

You do realise that America has probably killed more innocent people in the last 60 years than Islam has in the last 1000, right? Where are the moderate American's? Why aren't you condemning American terrorism?
 
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I found this article.
http://news.msn.com/world/jihadists-beheadings-sow-fear-prompt-muslim-revulsion

I have friends and acquaintances who are Muslim, some are from different countries, some are from here in the United States, and they are normal everyday people of all genders/races who just happen to be Muslim. The women do not wear the head scarves or the full covering in public, and they and their parents support women becoming educated, having jobs, etc.

They do not like the extreme Muslims that you hear about in the media. Or the ones that are fundamentalist who move to different countries and then want everything to be Sharia law.

One Pakistani Muslim my friend used to have as a college roommate did not pray the required number of times daily and said you could make it up, he drank alcohol and got drunk, and smoked weed at times. He did not like the extreme fundamentalist Muslims and he really did not like the Nation of Islam or the black Muslim groups only because they would claim that they are "true Islam" but only allow people of Black-African heritage to join, or in some of the American black Muslim groups you have to be completely black-African and not bi-racial have any other racial heritage at all, and in Islam people of all races join and practice that religion.

Oh yea, I know, there is a sizeable majority of people who if left alone would rather not be so barbaric to others. The video is still interesting. Group behavior... Behavior while following... Different demographics (notice they are mostly young men in video), is likely different than individual will behave a lot of times, or other groups.
 
Oh yea, I know, there is a sizeable majority of people who if left alone would rather not be so barbaric to others. The video is still interesting. Group behavior... Behavior while following... Different demographics (notice they are mostly young men in video), is likely different than individual will behave a lot of times, or other groups.

A t least they're not murdering children with drones :\
 
Friends of mine who have seen both videos said how in both cases the videos have a lot of production and editing, the men see the knives and know what is going to happen, yet are way too calm, say a memorized speech about United States foreign policy and politicians instead of screaming, or doing anything else, and do not try to fight or even run away.

One theory I read - why assume that this was the first time? As in, what better way to completely break a man than to have him go through a number of mock executions, having him kneel down and read the same script, having the knife put to his neck and expecting to be killed, just to be thrown back into chains? This could have happened dozens of times and might explain him not fighting back; he believes he might survive this time, just like he did the last.
 
^^ The one I read (with the first guy) was that they wanted an English speaker (the rapper) to do the propaganda but he might not have had the balls to do the deed himself so it happened later, after the fact.
 
Yeah; there are several explanations that make sense.
As much sense as a beheading video can make, that is. The whole thing stinks of western involvement if you ask me.
 
I wouldn't go that far - these guys are crazy enough on their own. But they're savvy enough to realise that they can goad the west into overreacting and creating a recruitment drive that they could never do on their own. Westerners won't go an join IS unless they feel that they (i.e. Muslims) are under an existential threat. It all just feeds into itself - the Jihadists say Muslim is under attack from the West, that recruits more people to the cause, the recruited Westerners commit acts that convince the West that they have to attack Islam, they attack the West then the West attacks Islam... Rinse and repeat 8(
 
That's very true.
I guess what I mean by 'western involvement' is not that there is still western involvement; but that I'd be pretty surprised if some of these people hadn't been fighting similar causes to western interests not so long ago, and been mistaken for "friends" of the west...and once again that's come back to look pretty bad for those trying to destabilise Assad et al from outside.
That old "my enemy's enemy is my friend" fallacy.

Then again, I admittedly haven't looked too far into it; my analysis is based on intuition more than evidence, but I don't really know what to believe any more - it's too far removed from anything I have a solid understanding of for me to make a balanced judgement.
I know who I don't trust on these issues - pretty much everyone :sus:
 
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