N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
The introduction of 4-aco-dmt and related chemicals to the substrate for shrooms...
What would a mushroom do with 4-aco? Could it be introduced to a 'non-magic' variety in the hopes of making it sparkle? Better yet, what would an already magic mushroom do with this chem and others?
I seem to remember reading something about this being done with 5-meO (i think) somewhere...but im not sure
fryingsquirrel
Bluelighter
It is pointless, you have the final product to begin with. Adding some kind of DMT containing plant material to your grow medium might be worthwhile.
Imperial Tacohead
Bluelighter
I seem to recall reading that some experimenters introduced DET to mushroom fungus and got 4-HO-DET out. (Shulgin said in TIHKAL that if you give mushrooms Mickey Mouse, you'll probably get back 4-HO-Mickey Mouse.) Sort of begs for some intrepid (by which I mean wild and crazy) explorer to introduce AMT, DPT, DiPT, MiPT, etc. to his mushrooms and report on how the psychedelic flavor of the mushrooms is affected by the varying inputs.
danceofdays
Bluelighter
AMT mushrooms is a crazy idea
Imperial Tacohead
Bluelighter
Uh, crazy stupid, or crazy interesting?
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
More like crazy as it chance to inhibit tryptamine-4-hydroxylase. Only N,N-disubstituted versions are likely to work
Imperial Tacohead
Bluelighter
As a non-chemist, could you give me some examples that fall into this category? Aside from DMT, I mean. Within this set of eligible chemicals, is the idea of making bizarro mushrooms feasible? Inquiring minds must know.
atara
Bluelighter
AET, DALT, and DiPT on mushrooms would all be pretty interesting, then.
Shulgin said he thought it could be possible to grow mushrooms containing 4-ho-5-meo-DMT by saturated in growing substrate in 5-meo-DMT. (http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/blg/2005/12/4-hydroxy-5-methoxy-nn_07.html)
Although I'm pretty sure I've seen a study showing the results to be less promising that originally thought. (something to do with the 5-meo being too close to the 4-ho to be successful)
Theres evidence suggesting that the introduction of DET can produce 4-PO and 4-HO DET in mushrooms.
More info on that here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2614674
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fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
DMT, DET, DPT, DiPT, MET, MPT, MiPT, PiPT, DALT - you get the idea?
THAT WAS IT lol!!
"...However there is a very interesting study that took place in Leipzig about 15 years ago. Jochen Gartz, a mushroom explorer whom I know quite well, has done some fascinating studies with Psilocybe species by raising them on solid media containing strange tryptamines that are alien to the mushroom. Apparently the enzymes that are responsible for the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin are indifferent to what it is they choose to 4-hydroxylate. He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin. In fact, he has a patent on the process. These active compounds are made by the mushroom so they really are natural and yet they never have been observed in nature. I'll give you even odds that if you put spores of a psilocybe species on cow droppings loaded with 5-MeO-DMT you would come out with mushrooms containing 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. This way you avoid a 10 step synthesis by growing a psychoactive mushroom that contains no illegal drug."
i cant speak as to psycho-activity of these compounds, i was just curious as to the process in which they are biosynthesized...
mad_scientist
Bluelighter
The relevant patent is DD 278600 A1.
He claims that any N,N-dialkyl tryptamine derivative where alkyl is ethyl, propyl, isopropyl or butyl can be converted to its 4-hydroxy derivative by mycelium of any of a variety of mushroom species, but the only example given is DPT --> 4-HO-DPT, so only that and the 4-HO-DET have been confirmed I think.
No reason all the others shouldn't work in theory, though perhaps the isopropyl or butyl groups might be too sterically hindered to bind the enzyme, and as stated above anything with a 5-MeO group probably wouldn't work.
You'd think that with such a huge community of people growing for hobby or profit (like all the people on shroomery), at least A FEW would want to experiment.. but no, its the same old same old.. year after year. Nothing new or "edgy" ever going on with the HUGE number of people growing shrooms.
I offered to donate different tryptamines, mimosa bark, extracted DMT to some people on shroomery and all I got back was "why bother? they're fine as they are". Blah blah blah, boring 
.
If I could do it where i'm at I would.. i'd try 5-meo-dmt and all sorts of stuff.. get the results analyzed etc.
MurphyClox
Bluelighter
This is original work by Jochen Gartz and was discussed numerous times, the respective publication is J Basic Microbiol 1989, 29(6), p.347.
The major drawbacks of this approach are that one needs to prepare the dialkyltryptamines first, and secondly, that there is almost exclusively the 4-OH-derivative formed. These are known to be unstable (in contrary to the phosphorylated congeners a lá psilocybin).
This is a dead end street.
- Murphy
