The Intelligence of DMT - A Retrospective Analysis.

[TheAppleCore]

DMT - Beauty - Wisdom - Spirit - Female - Future

Iboga - Power - Body - Matter - Male - Past

Interesting analogies. Salvia divinorum and iboga share these characteristics, you say?

We can't truly eradicate the contrast between beauty and ugliness, good or bad without dying or somehow leaving/transcending the natural, physical world.

I would revise that to: "We can't truly eradicate the contrast between beauty and ugliness, good or bad, period."

But eventually, it must regenerate the cycle, and death of the individual occurs. However, I believe the information we collected throughout our life aids in the manifestation of how and when our consciousness ever reincarnates in any astral plane in any dimension of the multiverse.

Sounds a lot like some Hindu interpretations of reincarnation. Although I don't know much about that particular domain of thought.

have you ever read "creative evolution", by Henry Bergson? I know what you are trying to express here and, although you manage to do it in a very beautiful way, reading that book will help you a lot; it will give you some needed relief too. read it. you'll love it. in a way, you need to read that book lol

Never read the book. Looked up some descriptions, though. Sounds right up my philosophical alley. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[cosmic._.ape]

i just read this:

"The world’s greatest physicists, Stephen Hawking and Albert Einstein, have said, respectively, that ‘The overwhelming impression is of order…[in] the universe’ (‘The Time of His Life’, Gregory Benford, Sydney Morning Herald, 28 Apr. 2002), and that ‘behind everything is an order’ (Einstein Revealed, pbs, 1997). Yes, this ‘order’ is apparent everywhere. Over the eons a chaotic universe organised itself into stars, planets and galaxies.

Here on Earth, atoms became ordered or integrated to form molecules → which in turn integrated to form compounds → virus-like organisms → single-celled organisms → multicellular organisms → and then societies of multicellular organisms. Overall, what is happening on Earth is that matter is becoming ordered into larger wholes. So the theme or purpose or meaning of existence is the ordering or integration or complexification of matter, a process that is driven by the physical law of Negative Entropy."

(Peter Henderson)

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

So many interesting and mindblowing ideas in this thread, but the truth is (at least IMHO) that it's only mere speculation because our brains can't "figure out" or "understand" the universe or life.
it just goes beyond our minds, it cannot be explained in any form that us human could ever begin to understand.
sorry that I've nothing to add to the thread, it was just a thought that came to my mind.
anyways this is a very interesting thread indeed.

 

[cosmic._.ape]

well comfy, that's just your speculation vs. ours hehe i heard many people saying we can't know, well, sure they can't. I think we can though and it's more a matter of remembering than knowing. "aletheia" rather than "veritas"

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

well comfy, that's just your speculation vs. ours hehe

that's true as well. in fact it is just my humble opinion and I would love to be proved wrong someday

 

[Flickering]

Thanks for the thread AppleCore. Beautiful, and just what I needed in the leadup to my first experience with DMT.

This debate about whether the universe was preset to evolve human life or whether it happened because in the vastness of space and time, it had to somewhere... seems to me irrelevant.

The point is it happened. Which says that the universe was in some way geared for it to happen. Because we are a natural outcome of the functions of the universe.

Perhaps there are ten trillion other universes in which the conditions for life were not met, and they were barren and dead. These flat, unending expanses of lifeless physical space do not matter. What matters is that at least one of them did. This in itself suggests it was bound to happen. Yes, in one sense, out of the entirity of all possible multiverses, human life was bound to happen. Your life was bound to happen. As evidenced by the observable fact that it did. Isn't this amazing whichever way you want to cut it?

Somehow this:

I do not advocate any kind of regression to our past. I just think that our connection to it is vital--without it, the future, in all its sparkly perfection, would lack meaning.

Sums up what I feel I am alive here on Earth to help remind people of - in all aspects of life.

 

[Keymaker]

This thread is the very reason I joined BlueLight. I am interested in learning "that which can not be known".
I so far have only skimmed thru this thread, and have not yet had the time to let it all soak n but the points, and speculations made are bothe realistic, and worth further discussion. I commend all of you for posting your insights, and thoughts.

I do have a rather wordy / long hypothesis on what DMT does, and why it is in so many living things. For now I will simply post up the foundation of my belief.

People as a whole believe in a "higher being" or "cosmic connection. My thought is DMT IS that connection. The body is a vessel. The brain is the "computer that keeps the vessel functioning. The mind is the abstract or spirit of the package as a whole.
DMT is the synapses that links all living things. It allows us to join other life forces as an entity. One whole spirit as it were.
The "beings" that are revealed to us are all of us combined.

This (to me) explains why we see, and feel the empathy of these beings yet they can never quite explain the message they are portraying. We do not have all the answers yet we KNOW this is OK. The linked spirit conveys this as an emotion because the words are not yet known.

I hope I presented my concept correctly. It is in as few words, and in as simple a context as I can produce at this moment. I look forward to joining this discussion, as I believe to my core that this is perhaps the single most important field of research there is. Nothing could be more important to the human species than an understanding of what we are.

Today was a good day!

 

[Doldrugs]

the points, and speculations made are bothe realistic, and worth further discussion.

Realistic is a pretty odd word to use here.

No, actually none of this is realistic. DMT is a drug which affects your brain. Everything it does can be easily explained by that, and not a single shred of compelling evidence exists that indicates it is anything other than that.

It is not "the single most important field of research there is" because it is not a field of research at all. It is anti-science.

 

[Keymaker]

I would very much like to hear your easy explanation of exactly what N,N-Dimethyltryptamine does in the brain.

The researchers of this "Anti science" would be very enlightened as well.

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v08n3/08304str.html
http://www.rickstrassman.com/
http://www.lsureveille.com/legacy/p...cle_4a851c42-036d-11e2-b3fb-0019bb30f31a.html
https://www.cottonwoodresearch.org/dmt-update/
http://parvati.tripod.com/strassman.html
https://forteansquirrel.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/dmt-and-our-brain-what-scientists-say/

I have time to wait, and there are thousands more researchers willing to hear it. Who knows... you might just prevent us from rubbing sticks, and beating drums long enough to learn something.

I understand that everyone is entitled to an opinion. In order to "appear credible" it is best to have a factual foundation or at least an intelligent hypothesis on any given subject.

I believe that all living things are linked in a common conscious, and DMT is the activator, allowing this link to occur. I am not alone in this belief. aka research.
There is a society called the "Flat Earth"

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flatearth.html

They desperately need members.

 

[Doldrugs]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. No proof of any kind, however, exists to defend the idea that DMT is "intelligent," provides access to other realms or beings, or does anything other than cause your brain to chemically do stuff. That DMT is a drug that does nothing outside your mind is a robust, scientific fact. The burden is on you to disprove it, not the other way around. That some scientists believe it doesn't make it true. Proof does. Some scientists believe in god. Nobody's perfect.

 

[Keymaker]

Ok. you have several different conversations going on there.
Science, and religion are not the same. Scientists can verify the reasoning for religion but they can not prove or dis prove the existence or God for example.
So the belief in God could be considered an "anti science" by your definition.

Dmt cannot be defined as intelligent any more than a single molecule of the brain can be so defined. It is a combination of molecules that 'creates" or defines intelligence.
200 years ago your concept would have held ground but today we know of Neurol transmitters, and receptors. We also know of active compounds such as serotonin that bridge these creating new processes in the brain.

A thought is what exactly? Define to me / us physically what it is...
That can not be done yet we all accept there is a science behind the formation of thought.

This is all I am saying... The process of thought creation as an abstract may very well continue well beyond our own TINY self realization.
Proof??? Prove a thought!!!

 

[ddhats]

TheAppleCore, I hope you're still checking this thread because as others have said it does raise some very interesting points, although I realise none of us are ever going to be successful in "proving" or otherwise anything about what DMT may or may not tell us.
However, I wanted to see if you'd read the book The Intelligent Universe by Sir Fred Hoyle? So many of the points you make are similar to the ones raised in his book it would be a (another?!) big coincidence if you hadn't.

It was him that first came up with the analogy of the tornado blowing through a junkyard and forming a functioning aircraft and I think the stats you quote about abiogenesis are also the same as he uses. It's quite a convincing argument that he makes about the chances of basic life appearing where previously there was none being so remote as to be effectively zero. Yes, it's possible to get some proteins to form together to form an amino acid, and once this had been recreated in a lab we made the jump to assuming that enzymes and fully functioning cells were also created. Yet as you say, no one has ever managed to re-create this process in a lab. We have never come close to making even the very simplest 'life' ourselves despite the huge scientific advances made in other fields.

He wasn't a total quack either. He was a divisive character, but also a highly respected Cambridge astronomy professor. He espoused the theory of panspermia, i.e. that life on earth comes from microbes attached to meteors, comets etc. An argument that seems highly credible to me.
The amount off "intelligence" behind whatever life landed on earth is clearly a matter of debate. Hoyle was an athiest though, and while his theories are often pounced on by "creationists" or those who believe in "intelligent design", he had no time for that gubbins either.

After reading his book I also wondered whether dabbled with a bit of the old DMT himself!

 

[Molecular_Man]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. No proof of any kind, however, exists to defend the idea that DMT is "intelligent," provides access to other realms or beings, or does anything other than cause your brain to chemically do stuff. That DMT is a drug that does nothing outside your mind is a robust, scientific fact. The burden is on you to disprove it, not the other way around. That some scientists believe it doesn't make it true. Proof does. Some scientists believe in god. Nobody's perfect.

Lol you are not perfect for sure..

Bluelight Brothers, be afraid of egoistic semiliterates. They are more dangerous for our species, than the ignorant ones.

Really, have you ever heard of Godel?

Among Godel's Proofs and Theorems, there is PROVED that in scientific logic exist "Facts" , that can be TRUE but cannot be PROVED...

So, Human Logic and Mathematical Thinking have BOUNDARIES and cannot (and will not) explain everything.

PS. Read also about Uncertainty Principle by one of the greatest physicist of all time, Werner Heisenberg..
As I said before, Science has Inherent Limits.

 

[Doldrugs]

Ad hominem and appeals to authority... Got any more fallacies? You ironically don't even seem to understand your sources. Neither Godel nor Heisenberg would agree with you. Their work was in explaining scientific and mathematical phenomena, not implying that one should abandon science and believe in whatever you like. The words "incomplete" and "uncertain" have specific technical meanings in these cases and you can't hijack them to mean something that was never implied by their authors (yet another fallacy).

 

[murphythecat]

but, what is your point? that everyone in this thread who feel that DMT is imbued with so much meaning and clearly help them in their life are wrong because it cannot be proven scientifically? DMT shows us something that is so profound that only the experience of it all is the proof.

to add to this thread, DMT showed me spirituality, showed me my potential that we all have within.The most profound and helpful experience of my life. I can say that it changed my life entirely and have been my proof that I need to develop myself spiritualy not just for my sake, but for the sake of the universe.
I think what dmt shows us is what we can be, that we are part and important part of reality and that light and love do exist and can be reached if only we were to bypass our way of thinking and experiencing life with the sense. the divine is truly within and cannot be found anywhere else but inside us.

Ad hominem and appeals to authority... Got any more fallacies? You ironically don't even seem to understand your sources. Neither Godel nor Heisenberg would agree with you. Their work was in explaining scientific and mathematical phenomena, not implying that one should abandon science and believe in whatever you like. The words "incomplete" and "uncertain" have specific technical meanings in these cases and you can't hijack them to mean something that was never implied by their authors (yet another fallacy).

 

[greengummybear]

i have learned that people fill themselves with spiritual beliefs. in my opinion concepts of sentient chemicals and omnipotent mystical figures are fantasy. regardless spirituality is scared and deserves respect. we should protect other peoples peaceful faith. many spiritual people have done amazing things motivated from their faith in the intangible. though i disagree with mysticism i wouldn't insult the faithful in attempting disproving their spirituality. sadly in the past peoples faith has been hijacked by malevolent sociopaths.

because sociopaths, governments, ect. highjack peaceful peoples spirituality i recommend against making decisions on spirituality based on compromised states of consciousness such as hallucinations. if you ignore my recommendation and form beliefs you can't prove based on hallucinations i won't attempt disproving this. my efforts are best focused on protecting peoples sacred right of faith from the exploitation of disrespectful sociopaths.

 

[murphythecat]

love, respect, truth, honesty, compassion, generosity are values and feeling I consider the basis of spirituality. you are spiritual whether you want it or not and EVERYTHING you do in life is based on your belief system. we all have our own little religion and every action we make in life is based on our belief system.
the negative connotation of spirituality in our society shows us many things.

i have learned that people fill themselves with spiritual beliefs. in my opinion concepts of sentient chemicals and omnipotent mystical figures are fantasy. regardless spirituality is scared and deserves respect. we should protect other peoples peaceful faith. many spiritual people have done amazing things motivated from their faith in the intangible. though i disagree with mysticism i wouldn't insult the faithful in attempting disproving their spirituality. sadly in the past peoples faith has been hijacked by malevolent sociopaths.

because sociopaths, governments, ect. highjack peaceful peoples spirituality i recommend against making decisions on spirituality based on compromised states of consciousness such as hallucinations. if you ignore my recommendation and form beliefs you can't prove based on hallucinations i won't attempt disproving this. my efforts are best focused on protecting peoples sacred right of faith from the exploitation of disrespectful sociopaths.

 

[Doldrugs]

but, what is your point? that everyone in this thread who feel that DMT is imbued with so much meaning and clearly help them in their life are wrong because it cannot be proven scientifically? DMT shows us something that is so profound that only the experience of it all is the proof.

My point was that "science hasn't proven everything to my satisfaction yet, therefore we must turn to nonsense" is a ridiculous and harmful position. There's nothing about "intelligent DMT" that appears more real than any other absurd thing you could make up off the top of your head. Believing something because you want to believe it and for no other reason does nothing positive for anyone. You can experience joy, and wonder, and epiphany without turning to pseudoscience and superstition. There are straightforward scientific reasons drugs make you feel the way you feel, and you can treasure those experiences without sullying them with nonsense.

Civilization moves forward when science and logic are upheld, backward when they are abandoned. There is no benefit to being antiscientific or illogical. These kinds of threads are really just the worst kind of fan fiction.

 

[murphythecat]

kk, that Id agree. the intelligence in dmt is questionable. its only a interpretation. and honestly, interpretations never portray the truth.
the truth is in the experience. all the explanation we try to make is simply fantasy. but the experience is very real and real for everyone who smoke DMT.

My point was that "science hasn't proven everything to my satisfaction yet, therefore we must turn to nonsense" is a ridiculous and harmful position. There's nothing about "intelligent DMT" that appears more real than any other absurd thing you could make up off the top of your head. Believing something because you want to believe it and for no other reason does nothing positive for anyone. You can experience joy, and wonder, and epiphany without turning to pseudoscience and superstition. There are straightforward scientific reasons drugs make you feel the way you feel, and you can treasure those experiences without sullying them with nonsense.

Civilization moves forward when science and logic are upheld, backward when they are abandoned. There is no benefit to being antiscientific or illogical. These kinds of threads are really just the worst kind of fan fiction.

 

[Doldrugs]

I guess it depends on what you mean by truth. Individual experiences are the worst places to look for truth, in my opinion. There's such an incredible collection of biases and faulty hardware and software involved. The aim of science is to take these factors out of the equation as best as possible, to arrive at data that appears true no matter what hardware/software system processes it. No matter what desires and preferences the viewer holds. Repeatable, usable information that can be built upon fruitfully.

But then, truth is a loaded, complex word. Perhaps you're using it to mean something personal and not objective.