The impact of drug abuse on other users vs. the impact on public perception

[Solipsis]

In this thread the OP contains a suggestion or question about the combination datura, DXM, zolpidem and benzydamine. This yielded the following response (among others):

This type of irresponsible behavior is what perpetuates society's negative view about drugs, especially psychedelics.

My reply in turn:

Uhm yeah that sucks and all but aren't you ignoring the harm people causing to themselves by this sort of behavior? I'd much rather be compassionate about that, both society and drug users are groups of people, individuals who deserve to be protected from suffering. For me that completely comes first and the abstract notion of the reputation drugs get a very late second if that.

Maybe I would be a lot more annoyed if I lived in for example Aus or the states, where they are of course being a bit fascist about Sch. I dope. That would probably make society's view more tangible in one's own life. Another topic for another time but such drug policies seem to follow mysterious and corrupted agenda's and take advantage of opportunism and populism.

Anyway I also think that the media-informed mass tends to be hysterical and sensationalist and there only have to be the occasional indicent and far too few people to properly defend a matter that is hard to explain without experiencing it yourself. Combine strange stories with the mystical lack of proper understanding and lack of information gotten from authoritive figures like parents, teachers, etc... and of course people won't know what to think besides "Boy that is fucked up". There will always be ignorant and reckless people and there is no point bitching about it. Virtually all of us used to be a lot more ignorant than we are now, it's probably important to understand that.

apparently the follow-up 'demands' the attempt of a new thread so here.

 

[buildersoftime]

^ now this, Solipsis is the beginning of a fascinating topic. Is fighting prohibition an HR strategy? And if so what if it's at odds with individual-focused HR? In what other ways does irresponsible posting, deliberate dissemination of drug myth, silly stories and bullshit, etc cause harm? And how can we quantify it?

For instance if I post about double dipped Chinese needlepoint, or pretend that I've taken 1000μg of acid when I've only taken 50μg, am I causing indirect harm by misinforming others? And what potential forms does this harm take?

For another place maybe...

 

[Solipsis]

OK builders, created a tangent thread - let's go nuts.

Only f*kk, I'm not really sure in what forum to put this.

Also is the TT both comprehensible and comprehensive?

 

[Grigore]

Honestly,I just wanted some encouragement in order to take that somewhat reckless combo.
After not receiving any encouragement and only negative thoughts about the experience,my brain processed that as: ''nobody wants to do it,you must do it!''
So,I did it and I'm still alive and it wasn't that bad or,I don't even know because I can't remember a damn thing.
From now on I will try to get my hand on some drugs that don't cause amnesia,zolpidem is truly terrible because of this side effect.

 

[buildersoftime]

Fuck Grigore! You're like the kiss of death for interesting conversation.

 

[Grigore]

I'll consider it a compliment because I know that you hate me.
Even if that makes no logic,I don't mind.

 

[psykedenlitenment]

This may be a brash and half- way- contemplated response, but I think drug abuse effects other users by causing the panic that gets things scheduled (think NBOMes) which itself is a dual edged sword; saving us from a ' known' evil, but presenting us with more unknowns.. How it effects the way the public perceives j it, I could care less; you can espouse all the reasons in the world to express how safe things are, but at the end of the day, it's all in the eye of the beholder. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it understand what the trough is.

 

[Solipsis]

Please stay on topic or this fresh thread will need to be shutdown for apparently not being viable, or I can just remove off-topic stuff of course. This is not about you anymore Grigore.
Ugh I'm tired and hungry, I can't contribute and elaborate or follow up on builder's and psyke's posts

 

[ZFC]

A few months ago, I overdosed on 4-HO-DPT (I discussed it in the B&D thread). What actually triggered the bad trip was not really the intensity of my intoxication, but rather the irrational thought that "if someone sees me like this [it was in a nature reserve close to my home, late at dusk] they might insist that I go to a hospital and this great compound will get scheduled because of me". I knew I was going to be okay, but paranoia + guilt + letsrunhome made the whole thing very unpleasant.

So yeah, I do wish drug scheduling was more rational, that would have saved me a bad time.

 

[Phaxius]

The legal status of many compounds often prevents legitimate research into the possible risks, benefits, and pharmacology of substances. New drugs are coming out faster than much research can be done, and more often than not it seems more of a waiting game to see which ones the guinea pigs consuming them gain enough traction to get media coverage, and yeah, that media coverage regarding recreational use of substances tends to put focus on worst case scenario. Without proper research, no one really knows much about the implication of these drugs, and more often than not (at least in the USA) if a substance is used recreationally and gets media coverage then it is banned. If the supply dries up, then many people move on to something else that is perhaps even less researched and unknown and so on and so forth...

The paradigm of "let's ban everything" is counterproductive, because if people want to get high, they will. Many people have no problem going outside the law to make this happen and/or turn to grey market product of questionable purity and identity with an unknown safety profile and short/long term effects. As time goes by and more people try out these things it can add to the stigma of drug (ab)use in society as the media seems most interested in demonizing drug use and adding to the "drugs are bad mkay" mentality (while in the meantime drinking coffee, smoking cigarettes, and getting drunk while having their children prescribed psychostimulants and antidepressants...wtf?). Pretty much any reckless use of drugs can be harmful, though some drugs have a greater margin of error than others. At any rate, as long as there is free will there is no method of dealing with this sort of thing that is perfect, however, there are much better ways of dealing with drugs outside of just banning everything. The concept of harm reduction is a step in the right direction, but there is no way to make people do research or heed sound advice regarding the use of drugs. To further confound this, with so many new drugs out there it is basically a case of the blind leading the blind unless some actual empirical research and quality control is applied to the market. We can know from experience or anecdote how these things affect us, but that only goes so far to be of use, especially considering how that data is subjective and often tainted by bias or just plain lies. Anyways, rambling...

 

[herbavore]

Is fighting prohibition an HR strategy? And if so what if it's at odds with individual-focused HR?

I think fighting prohibition is at the core of harm reduction. But prohibition refers to legality or illegality.

Telling an individual how and why what they are taking (or proposing to take) is dangerous is also at the core of harm reduction and is not prohibition. And if you boil both of these down to the core belief, they both encompass personal choice. I don't think they are at odds.

In the end, people make their own choices. As a mother that lost a son to overdose, this is something I struggle with daily in my own head--but it is a very worthy struggle to wage. I have a lot of passion for drug education, harm reduction and meaningful discourse on the subject of using substances (of any kind) to improve one's life. That is a very complex and often contradictory subject! It is hard to find places to explore such a delicate topic without hysteria, as solopsis points out. For that, I thank Bluelight and the Bluelight moderators that provide a place for this to happen. True education comes from listening and asking, pondering, processing, listening more. I like that you are asking questions, buildersoftime.