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The Ferguson thread / additional race discussion

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Roger&Me said:
i actually do agree with most of what you said. one of the biggest problems in our legal system is the extreme influence of prosecutorial discretion (which is even more evident at the federal level but present at all levels). and it is true that police officers are typically extended more leeway by grand juries in difficult cases due to the unique position that their job inhabits in our society (this is probably a good thing when applied judiciously but very dangerous when taken to an extreme).

i still think that, given what i know about this particular case, it would have been extremely difficult for any prosecutor to secure an indictment no matter how the evidence was presented. even if they managed to secure an indictment, it would have been nearly impossible to secure a conviction. the evidence clearly suggests that, in this case, the officer was acting within the bounds of the law. i think that had he been charged with a crime, that would have been a very poor decision from a legal standpoint, and would have been caving to social/political pressure. our legal system isn't perfect, no legal system is, in fact i might go as far as to say that the very act of applying the law to individual cases is inherently imperfect and flawed. but as far as you can trust anyone in the legal system to act impartially, you can trust a grand jury to. within the boundaries of the system, they are as impartial as it is possible to get.

don't get me wrong, i'm as concerned with the increasing militarization of police forces and excessive use of force by police officers as anyone. really, it is something i'm extremely concerned about. if you read the "drugs in the media" forum there are almost always several salient examples on the front page. but the fact that police frequently use excessive force against citizens does not necessarily mean that that was the case in this particular instance.



essentially that's the whole point of a grand jury, and exactly why we have them. to be an impartial third party. and i do agree that police should be accountable to the citizens and not policed internally. i think that this case is an instance of exactly that occurring.

it seems to me like people are angry about the decision in this case because of what it represents to them, not because of the actual facts of the case and the actual legal minutiae surrounding the grand jury's decision.
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This for the most part is very accurate. Also do not forget the judge allowed the grand jury to come back with any charge their hearts desired. They could of brought a man slaughter charge if they wanted to but the point as roger so eloquently stated is that there was no hope for a conviction with the evidence presented. My theory is that this type of situation is lucrative for many different parties, and is in those parties interest to propagate. With the pawns and America as a whole being the ones that suffer.
 
Kenickie said:
so glad to see all these people of colour participating in this race discussion.
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Who's stopping anyone from posting? I mean I don't even know what anyone looks like on here much less their race. Pretty presumptuous to come in here and make a sarcastic remark like that imo, especially when you've added nothing to the discussion.
 
A List of Businesses Looted and Damaged During the Ferguson Riots

You now know that the grand jury has chosen not to indict officer Darren Wilson in the shooting of Michael Brown. No matter where you stand on the issue, you should agree that looting and setting fire to local businesses is idiotic and shameful.

Here are a list of businesses known at this time that have suffered loss due to the riots in Ferguson, MO.

If you feel compelled to help them, here are the addresses. Send a check, spend money with them when they reopen, and if they are a national or regional chain, go shop with them in your own city.

Yes, these businesses may have insurance, but don’t think they aren’t paying the price. Behind the flames and broken glass is a business owner or general manager left to pick up the pieces.

The situation is still very fluid right now, so my information may be incorrect or incomplete. Please contact me with updates, photos, addresses or other additions. The St. Louis Regional Business Council has also launched a fund to support proprietors who have been affected by the riots.

http://duckduckgrayduck.com/2014/11...looted-and-damaged-during-the-ferguson-riots/
 
ebola? said:
It's blatant strawmen like these that are the lifeblood of your shtick.

Ebola
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I'd get an infraction if I went into a thread and said "lovely to see all the white people debating this issue".

How about issues like white privledge only Europeans or European descent people can discuss it? Or white person killed we consider only white opinions valid?
 
LosBlancos said:
I'd get an infraction if I went into a thread and said "lovely to see all the white people debating this issue".

How about issues like white privledge only Europeans or European descent people can discuss it? Or white person killed we consider only white opinions valid?
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I have grown tired of pointing out this fact and soon you will too imo
 
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Roger&Me said:
i'm not going to get dragged into a debate in this troll forum, but i'm just going to interject one more thing. if you honestly advocate violence and destruction of property as a reasonable means of achieving social justice then you're out of your mind. there are legitimate avenues for reforming the system if it is broken, and they are effective when used correctly. this was proven by the civil rights movement of the 60's, which made an enormous amount of progress for oppressed minority groups and was largely nonviolent. yes, there are still problems, some big ones, but they need to be addressed through legitimate avenues in a systematic way.
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The US civil rights era was half a century ago.
Sure, peaceful sit-ins were effective then, but are there many examples of such tactics working since the early 1960s?
I can't think of any off the top of my head.
You are conflating the ideas of "taking to the streets", "rioting" and "looting".
These are all different things. They can and have taken place concurrently - but it is disingenuous to consider those three things a single entity.
For my jibes about rioting, arson, people expressing their anger, I am not advocating destruction of property as a solution to anything.
Disruption to society, yes - but there is a clear and very large distinction to be made.
Not all riots end in looting or arson.
Not all demonstrations become "riots".
rog said:
exactly. a grand jury, which is about as impartial an entity as is possible for human beings to construct, and acts as autonomously from any type of outside influence as is possible for humans to act
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Is it though? The grand jury system is an international anomaly in a legal sense.
Every other country that utilised this system has done away with it, in favour of committal hearings and the like.

How easy would it be to find 12 people in Missouri that have not heard anything about the case? How realistic is it to expect impartiality in this case?
I'm not convinced grand juries are in any way appropriate to adjudicate such things.
Perhaps why much of the rest of the world abolished grand juries 200+ years ago.

Note, this is not some "anti American" criticism, just another interesting aspect of the case - and I suspect, why many people feel justice has not been served. I'm not judging this, just offering a different perspective.
 
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LosBlancos said:
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Ya his american dream got beat down with an ugly stick didnt it. Poor guy. Well, its probably what mikey brown would have wanted them to do so mission accomplished. Cant wait till we shove this circus event under the rug with all the other unresolved media distractions so we can move on to the next tragedy. Whats happening with the isis boys or that pesky ebola?
 
First video interview of Darren Wilson that I've seen.

[video=youtube_share;Llwdma6zVhA]http://youtu.be/Llwdma6zVhA[/video]
 
socko said:
Start by finding ways to restore opportunities for upward mobility. According to recent articles in the Wall Street Journal, currently around 10% of children born into poverty in america ever make it out into the middle or upper castes.
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I'm feeling glad that for my siblings and I, we've beaten the odds.

But unlike CE&P's idiots, I know race was a factor. We can easily pass with the right clothing. Put me in a suit and tie, and cops think twice about hassling me.
 
Just saying. It's hard to take a "race discussion thread" seriously when it's just a bunch of white boys debating what degree of blackness is criminal.
 
Nobody is forcing you to be here. Plus, not sure how you know its a bunch of white boys here. Rather ignorant remark. Or at least add something instead of these one liner trolling comments.
 
Been here long enough to know who's who. It doesn't do anything for you to shout into an echo chamber. Like agreeing about abortion with no women around. Might feel all justified and shit but still doesn't mean you've got a valid argument if you don't bother talking to PoCs or women. Easy to play Devils advocate when you don't have to worry about suffering any consequences.
 
Kenickie said:
Just saying. It's hard to take a "race discussion thread" seriously when it's just a bunch of white boys debating what degree of blackness is criminal.
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I don't think it's any degree of blackness that caused Mr. Brown's death unless you consider strong-arm robbery of a convenience store and attacking a police officer progressive degrees of blackness. I hope you don't think that way because that would be a racist and vile train or thought.
 
What the fuck are you talking about? Consequences? Are you sayin that if i had these views around some blackness, I would suffer consequences. Why dont you explain that to me cause i hope its not what I think it means. Devils advocate? Your full of it man. Congrats on being here to know who's who though. Dont come at me like that. Go somewhere else and start shit. Its not needed here.
 
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