The Ferguson thread / additional race discussion

[LuGoJ]

It is quite irresponsible for him to do that but i can't honestly say i have said some absolutely horrible and disgusting things in the heat of the moment. I told my principal I was going to track down and murder his entire family when I was in highschool. I'm not really sure what his stepfather has to do with anything though, is he the one that's been calling for peace all along or was that his real dad? It's getting confusing.

On a different note. Maybe all of this horrible stuff will bring some good, police all being forced to wear camera's. Something that I believe all drug users would have no problem supporting. I'm not a fan of all sharpton but I definitely nodded my head when he was giving his speech a little earlier today and saying we could avoid all of this in the future if they were all wearing cameras, no more back and forth, no more he said she said. What does the video say.

 

[LosBlancos]

Militarization of the Police?

 

[LosBlancos]

[h=2]FERGUSON, Missouri----KMOV-TV reports that the majority of stores that were damaged or completely destroyed during Monday night's violent riots in Ferguson were minority owned. Fire Departments around the St. Louis County Area put out 25 structural fires caused by vandals and looters following the announcement from the grand jury that Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson would not be indicted in the death of Mike Brown.[/h]Most of the damaged businesses were on West Florissant Avenue and included: Walgreens, Little Caesers Pizza, Autozone, Beauty Town, Title Max, Family Dollar Store, and O'Reilly Auto Parts. Small-business owner Natalie Dubose was in tears when she realized her cake store was attacked by vandals.
Dubose, a mother of two, previously told CNN, "If I can't open my doors every morning, I can't feed my kids in the evening. Just don't burn my shop down, don't destroy it."

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...sinesses-Destroyed-in-Ferguson-Minority-Owned

 

[Roger&Me]

This is why I'm encouraged by people taking to the streets.
Better to die on ones feet that live on one's knees.

i'm not going to get dragged into a debate in this troll forum, but i'm just going to interject one more thing. if you honestly advocate violence and destruction of property as a reasonable means of achieving social justice then you're out of your mind. there are legitimate avenues for reforming the system if it is broken, and they are effective when used correctly. this was proven by the civil rights movement of the 60's, which made an enormous amount of progress for oppressed minority groups and was largely nonviolent. yes, there are still problems, some big ones, but they need to be addressed through legitimate avenues in a systematic way.

I mean, a young man is killed by police - then a grand jury adjudicates that the police that killed him need not even be charged.

exactly. a grand jury, which is about as impartial an entity as is possible for human beings to construct, and acts as autonomously from any type of outside influence as is possible for humans to act, examined the evidence extensively and considered the testimony of over 60 witnesses and determined that there was not probable cause to charge the police officer with a crime in this case. the police officer was attacked and was defending himself, he did not commit murder or any other crime, and was acting within the boundaries of the law. the decision of the grand jury not to charge him was sound from a legal standpoint.

 

[LuGoJ]

Militarization of the Police?

Except when they come to take your guns, then you will be crying "why did we let them get this way!" as your family watches you get shotup

It's really easy when you believe things don't apply to you and when you feel that it's because of the "other people", but trust when I say it's only a matter of time before something like this happens to someone that's important to you or to your political team. Then you will be singing a much different tune, friend.

 

[socko]

Everything here, the riots, the armed gangs, and the militarized police are what you think of when you talk about third world countries. It's all an expression of the frustration that's growing across the country over socioeconomic problems that nobody is bothering to fix.

I'm not in favor of angry mobs running amok and burning down the city -- and definetly think the National Guard is what should deal with it. The police, on the other hand, actually work in the affected neighborhoods every day and shouldn't present themselves as a military force.

 

[LosBlancos]

Everything here, the riots, the armed gangs, and the militarized police are what you think of when you talk about third world countries. It's all an expression of the frustration that's growing across the country over socioeconomic problems that nobody is bothering to fix.

I'm not in favor of angry mobs running amok and burning down the city -- and definetly think the National Guard is what should deal with it. The police, on the other hand, actually work in the affected neighborhoods every day and shouldn't present themselves as a military force.

This only exacerbates socioeconomic problems, burning down many businesses hurts the business owner, the employees, the community will not get taxes from them anymore.

People are crazy if they think those burning/looting had some Marxist revolution in mind, they just want to get a few free bottles of booze and anything else they can get their hands on and cause as much destruction as they can for the night.

 

[socko]

This only exacerbates socioeconomic problems, burning down many businesses hurts the business owner, the employees, the community will not get taxes from them anymore.

People are crazy if they think those burning/looting had some Marxist revolution in mind, they just want to get a few free bottles of booze and anything else they can get their hands on and cause as much destruction as they can for the night.

I agree.

 

[ArCi]

i'm not going to get dragged into a debate in this troll forum, but i'm just going to interject one more thing. if you honestly advocate violence and destruction of property as a reasonable means of achieving social justice then you're out of your mind. there are legitimate avenues for reforming the system if it is broken, and they are effective when used correctly. this was proven by the civil rights movement of the 60's, which made an enormous amount of progress for oppressed minority groups and was largely nonviolent. yes, there are still problems, some big ones, but they need to be addressed through legitimate avenues in a systematic way.



exactly. a grand jury, which is about as impartial an entity as is possible for human beings to construct, and acts as autonomously from any type of outside influence as is possible for humans to act, examined the evidence extensively and considered the testimony of over 60 witnesses and determined that there was not probable cause to charge the police officer with a crime in this case. the police officer was attacked and was defending himself, he did not commit murder or any other crime, and was acting within the boundaries of the law. the decision of the grand jury not to charge him was sound from a legal standpoint.

Best post in this entire thread

lol I can't wait for pa or space junk to come in and tell Roger he has no idea what he's talking about

 

[rickolasnice]

Smashed it again..



Contains information that may (but probably wont) sway your mind..

Arci. LosBlancos.. pay attention.

 

[LosBlancos]

Smashed it again..



Contains information that may (but probably wont) sway your mind..

Arci. LosBlancos.. pay attention.

Love how Brand describes Michael Brown as a "teenage boy" he is 292 lbs and a tad over 6'2.

He also misquotes a statistic in the first minute saying an unarmed Black man killed by police every 28 hours, it's not unarmed it's just Black person in general. It doesn't take into account whether it's justifiable homicide like this case.

Russel Brand is another race baitor like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, and as much as he loves diversity you wouldn't find him stepping foot into the heart of Oakland, or Miami, or Chicago without his entorague of body guards. He's another bleeding heart liberal sipping a latte from his posh flat and speaking out as a social justice warrior over his Youtube channel just to stir the pot and get some more subscribers.

 

[phenethylo J]

I hate racism and police brutality as much anyone here and get the black communities tension with the police but this shit is really getting out of hand. How do you explain the autopsy results? How do you explain that several witnesses claiming Brown had his hands up and was shot in the back, flat out lied and weren't even there? How do you explain that multiple black witnesses gave an account exactly matching Wilson's story? These aren't rhetorical questions; I'm really curious what you think. Do you actually believe this is some big conspiracy? Behind close doors did the investigators tell those black witnesses "if you don't say what I tell you to say what I tel you to say I'll kill your family then plant guns on them"?

This is a fucking disgrace and insult to all the real victims of racism, excessive force, and unjust killing by the police. Only in America does a police officer who shoots a robbery suspect he is trying to apprehend that violently assaulted him and tried to grab his gun cause massive protests and riots. I'm the furthest thing from a republican, gun nut, racist, red neck, cop lover, or any of the labels used to define supporters of Wilson but I think it was justified.

 

[legalizeall]

THe step father should be more aware of his actions because of how public this is. Instead of letting his emotions run the show, he really needs to look at the opportunity he could have. How many people get instant influence like that. Very few. Channel it instead of encouraging people to burn things.

It just becomes the result of anger and frustration not in control. From this situation and the past. Its a very instinctual, primal way to show somebody your pissed. Like a kid that doesn't feel they are getting enough attention. They act out cause they know, even though its negative, that it will get attention. Like when your so angry, you might only be thinking what is around me that i can destroy. For them, its buildings. Fire is a very primal item.

They have to take a more mature and professional way to get things changed or get their point across. Running around, unorganized screaming no justice, no peace from the rodney king days is not going to make people go oh lets here what they have to say. To riot their own mom and pop stores in their small community just really takes it and throws it in the shitter.

Its not like these are new issues for anyone in the u.s. but its the wrong platform to use. A situation everyone can get on board with. For example, someone like me who doesnt really like cops at all and I admit that Im very judgmental of all cops with the thought that very few are actually decent people still just cant support what these people are doing. That being said, i also think the cop was justified in what he did and I think the people protesting this are just being ignorant and irrational and choosing not to look at it for what really happened. I dont support them even though i really wish i could. These cops these days are very much out of control and changes need to be made.

This is what the fucks at the top want though. They dont give a shit cause they know this is ineffective and it keeps are divided. What more could they ask for in controlling a society. A divided one. THey know this will peter out like the cop cars they light on fire. I cant see them being too comfortable if a whole nation was in agreement over something like this. Its not whether the protest is peaceful or is violent. Its whether the country is divided or its united on something.

They cant even get an indictment on this guy. How do they expect it to make any kind of change like going to the supreme court? With all this attention, im sure grand jury really looked hard at this with the fallout of their decision in the back of their minds and the possible backlash of media attention if it came to light they didnt look at all the evidence possible.

 

[LuGoJ]

exactly. a grand jury, which is about as impartial an entity as is possible for human beings to construct, and acts as autonomously from any type of outside influence as is possible for humans to act, examined the evidence extensively and considered the testimony of over 60 witnesses and determined that there was not probable cause to charge the police officer with a crime in this case. the police officer was attacked and was defending himself, he did not commit murder or any other crime, and was acting within the boundaries of the law. the decision of the grand jury not to charge him was sound from a legal standpoint.

Yes and no. Grand juries historically almost never indict police officers in general, which is a red flag to begin with. You can have two juries with the same pile of evidence and depending on how the prosecutor frames it and presents the evidence, will have two very different verdicts. If the prosecutor presents the evidence with the intent getting an idictment, believe me, it will happen. This is not unique to this case though and seems to be a flaw in the system in general. These cases should be prosecuted by a third party with no relationship to the officer. Police policing themselves is dangerous for everyone.

 

[Kenickie]

so glad to see all these people of colour participating in this race discussion.

 

[What 23]

so glad to see all these people of colour participating in this race discussion.

So, it's our job to go find people of color to let them have a say?

Hmm. Makes sense. Though, I guess it does, but it's not really my fault that they aren't here.

 

[Roger&Me]

Yes and no. Grand juries historically almost never indict police officers in general, which is a red flag to begin with. You can have two juries with the same pile of evidence and depending on how the prosecutor frames it and presents the evidence, will have two very different verdicts. If the prosecutor presents the evidence with the intent getting an idictment, believe me, it will happen. This is not unique to this case though and seems to be a flaw in the system in general.

i actually do agree with most of what you said. one of the biggest problems in our legal system is the extreme influence of prosecutorial discretion (which is even more evident at the federal level but present at all levels). and it is true that police officers are typically extended more leeway by grand juries in difficult cases due to the unique position that their job inhabits in our society (this is probably a good thing when applied judiciously but very dangerous when taken to an extreme).

i still think that, given what i know about this particular case, it would have been extremely difficult for any prosecutor to secure an indictment no matter how the evidence was presented. even if they managed to secure an indictment, it would have been nearly impossible to secure a conviction. the evidence clearly suggests that, in this case, the officer was acting within the bounds of the law. i think that had he been charged with a crime, that would have been a very poor decision from a legal standpoint, and would have been caving to social/political pressure. our legal system isn't perfect, no legal system is, in fact i might go as far as to say that the very act of applying the law to individual cases is inherently imperfect and flawed. but as far as you can trust anyone in the legal system to act impartially, you can trust a grand jury to. within the boundaries of the system, they are as impartial as it is possible to get.

don't get me wrong, i'm as concerned with the increasing militarization of police forces and excessive use of force by police officers as anyone. really, it is something i'm extremely concerned about. if you read the "drugs in the media" forum there are almost always several salient examples on the front page. but the fact that police frequently use excessive force against citizens does not necessarily mean that that was the case in this particular instance.

These cases should be prosecuted by a third party with no relationship to the officer. Police policing themselves is dangerous for everyone.

essentially that's the whole point of a grand jury, and exactly why we have them. to be an impartial third party. and i do agree that police should be accountable to the citizens and not policed internally. i think that this case is an instance of exactly that occurring.

it seems to me like people are angry about the decision in this case because of what it represents to them, not because of the actual facts of the case and the actual legal minutiae surrounding the grand jury's decision.

 

[legalizeall]

This is a fucking disgrace and insult to all the real victims of racism, excessive force, and unjust killing by the police.

So true. Some people arent even looking into the facts of the case. They see white on black hate crime with a cop and thats all they need. Militarized police, oppressed people not being heard? Give me a break. Like those are new things.

Even with all the police brutality going on when you boil it down to any specific case its irrelevant because its not part of the case. If I go rob a store, should statistics about other robberies and the types of people doing robberies matter. No, its what Ive done.

So ya, 99% of police are corrupt, violent people but the copper did what he had to do cause he felt his life was threatened. Anyone of us, especially if we have a wife or young kids at home, would have done the same thing. He gave testimony how he had been punched in the face twice and was worried that he might get knocked out with a third one.

And just what would this guy have done if he had a solo cop knocked out with no backup in sight in front of his neighborhood in front other people. That would have been ugly. Im actually surprised he didnt fire more then the 6 shots. This thug played tough guy after robbing a store and payed the price for it. Im not saying he deserved it but he took the risk and it didnt work out for him.

I think this is the only time ive been in favor of a cops actions. Its just so obvious.

Russell Brand needs to keep it shut. Trying to grab a piece of attention over this. Douche. Even still I gave him a chance. I played it to see what he had to say and I was done within the first minute I think. He flames fox for using certain words to deliver a certain type of message then he turns around and says teenage boy like he is some little innocent kid. No im not some fox news fan either. He was just being a tool. Just relapse already.

 

[legalizeall]

so glad to see all these people of colour participating in this race discussion.

How do you know Im not a person of colour? Or anyone else for that matter? Who uses that word anyway? Coloured? Thats all you have to add too? Little shot of ignorance Great job.

Oh where is the button that sends out a signal for all the people of colour to come join in? Is it like a batman signal?

 

[nuttynutskin]

Props to these guys for having the balls to defend their businesses from looters...

Armed Business Owners Thwart Mobs In Ferguson Riots

Posted by Bob Owens on November 25, 2014 at 7:25 pm

Mike Gutierrez (left) and Adam Weinstein (third from left) brought guns to guard their store during the riots in Ferguson last night. (Photo credit: Bryan Sutter)

As criminals raged and overwhelmed the ability of law enforcement to respond to threats in Ferguson, Missouri, last night, it was up to armed citizens—good guys with guns—to save the day.

Nobody is robbing St. Louis Ink Tattoo Studio anytime soon. Or County Guns, for that matter.

The two north-county businesses share a storefront in a Florissant strip mall less than ten minute drive from the epicenter of last night’s riots in Ferguson. After nightfall, what began as a community’s peaceful demonstration against the Ferguson Police Department’s shooting of unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown turned increasingly violent. Crowds plundered a QuikTrip and burned it to the ground, and local news began reporting brazen raids on other stores in the area.

After hearing of the roving bands of looters, Mike Gutierrez knew he had to protect his tattoo shop. He brought a posse with him, including Adam Weinstein, owner of County Guns, who was acutely worried about criminals getting their hands on his merchandise.

“We didn’t want them coming in here and then running around with a bunch of free guns,” Weinstein told Daily RFT when we arrive at the store around 12:30 a.m. this morning. Weinstein was outfitted with an assault rifle, pistol and tactical vest. Gutierrez cradled his own rifle in his hands.

Gutierrez, Weinstein and their group arrived to find thieves tearing through a Dollar General in the same strip mall that houses their business. Weinstein says the looters attempted moving toward the shop, but were scared off by the guns. Then the police arrived.

“There were like two SWAT vans, two dozen cop cars,” said one woman. The cops apparently checked out the situation and then tore off to some other crisis.

Police officers are wonderful people to have around, but they can’t be everywhere.

In the end you are your own first responder, and must provide your own self-defense.

http://bearingarms.com/armed-busine...bafbp&utm_medium=fbpage&utm_campaign=baupdate