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The Experience of Childbirth

yes but if you look at the hard science behind the planet turning on its axis, you'd find any credible source lead to the elle word. only hacks refer to false ideas such as god or gravity.
 
rangrz said:
I believe any sort of special significance attached to birth is merely a result of the informal bias/fallacy of 'magical thinking'.
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isnt your belief right there a result of "the informal bias/fallacy of 'magical thinking'" since its based off a chemical reaction happening in your brain

and this aint only about the mom but also about the dad who does not have all the bad stuff that you compare to puking
and a baby does stay alive contrary to puking so that experience keeps happening everyday, those chemical dont stop after birth, you connect with that experience ever after like a flashback, it can connect you with the whole of what it means to be alive

asexual reproduction is still reproduction, it doesnt change what i said
the act of birth connects you with where we come from
we have a need to know where we come from, if you feel connected to a answer in regards to that then your brain will produce the happy chemical

plants dont give birth but they cant care for their kid either since they cant move because they did not evolve a heart to move or love
they dont need to connect with their offspring, they dont need to produce chemicals to make them care about their offspring to protect them to give them better chance at survival

the idea here is that your body is made a certain way to make you do certain things
so that what is real to you is whats real to you and that aint magical its subjective
we based our lives out of our subjective experience and it doesnt mater if our subjective reality is a chemically based hallucination because thats as good as it gets, logic and reason are still as much part of that hallucination as the rest and if your heart has a bias towards those then you might stop producing a reality where birth doesnt mean anything special because you personally dont connect with it, but it aint because you choose to not connect with it to stay in your mind that it aint for most people who goes thought it a experience that they often rank as one of the most meaningful and powerful experience in their life
and its that way because thats how our body works, and it doesnt mater if you call it magical and they call it magical, the thing is some people use that word in a positive light and you dont, they dont care to know or explain the magicians trick and they dont have too, so what if you know how it works, do that means that you cant enjoy the show because you now know that it aint magical at all or can you appreciate the craftsmanship involve in creating the "delusion/hallucination"

personally im sadly too cerebral to connect with it, i actually dislike that environment and i think that babies are ugly, they all are, i dont care to hold babies or look at them, i think they suck, imo they start being cool at around 5
but thats my problem if i dont connect with it, ive being regulating my heart way too much this past 20 year due to depression to a point where i could not even cry when my mother died, i was way too much in my head to feel stuff from a emotional perspective, but then i could not connect with life and care about living because i wasnt producing the right chemical to do so, and thats life, thats the experience you get if you are a healthy individual, you care about babies and birth because thats what a healthy body wants you to do, but you need balance for that, if you are too much in your head its like being too close to the tv and seeing little dots dancing in your face, and that doesnt make you closer to the truth because you are closer to the tv set, that makes you miss the movie as a whole instead of individual parts, that makes you miss the point of the movie so you wont cry at the end even if it was a beautiful story because "its just a movie" and you did not cared to get involved, but how much did i ended up in my head because i did not wanted to get hurt back in highschool...i ended up in my head for the sake of protecting my heart, i didnt wanted to get involve because if you care you might get hurt, so i started regulating my heart, i built a wall, which made me real good at thinking free of a emotional bias, or so i thought but then what was i thinking about...i was thinking about depress stuff like hey! should i kill myself ? because if i analyses it with my computer of a brain there really is no point to it and life suck, and life sucked because i was doing it wrong, the truth is that life is a dynamic experience, its alive, its not on pause its on play, you need to play it, but your brain push the pause button for the sake of analyzing it in a non-emotionally bias way, it turns it into static mode, but that aint life, that aint living, thats thinking about life, and if you purposely stay in that realm for the sake of protecting yourself youll end up hurting yourself, or so did i because that made me loose balance
thinking is there to make you able to take better decision to get better result that gives you better chance at survival or a better quality of life, and if you choose to discredit what others are calling a profound and meaningful experience then you might have your nose so close to the tv set that you are unable to enjoy that movie called life where you aint only a spectator but its main actor
so what is really happening is as much what you think is happening in static mode as what you feel is happening in dynamic mode and if you end up in a situation where you feel "nyah" when others can feel "omgomgomg" then you might be missing out on what is "really" happening


anyway, thats just m perspective
 
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hiphophippy said:
your theory is false, many species rely exclusively on rape, sometimes deadly rape to reproduce, if that's love well, i guess japan is the only country doing it right.
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... Passion?
But Passion I don't think exists with-out a love for something.
Maybe our psychology isn't entirely made up as Freud suggested;
A child their mother and sexual relations
Or as Jung boxed us, with the Archetype...there is a common bond here.


why should ones archetype be bothered?

a mothers love is the pinnacle of love.

sex is an act which recreats the most intense,
personal primal examples of power and trust - that to me sounds like a recipe for love.
?
 
Bacterial conjugation is not sexual reproduction, and it frequently is the case that the bacterium reproduces without a horizontal gene transfer having occurred previously. This also very true of normal somatic cell reproduction in multicellular organisms like humans. i.e. you get an injury, it begins to heal with cells reproducing, the cells reproduce without any new genetic material introduced. Is the cell not reproducing asexually?

Why would I cry at movie? What makes a story 'beautiful'? Its entirely subjective, is it not? By taking a step back from something and analyzing it un-emotionally, we allow ourselves to be more accurate. Would you trust results from the Large Hardon Collider if they where based on emotional thinking? Would you want your physician to treat you by thinking emotionally and not scientifically? Why then, should we treat the actual "meaning" of birth any differently.

If you get a good experience out of it, I guess good for you, enjoy it! Just as I would say if you get euphoria from doing LSD. however, I am not obliged to read anything deep or profound into your experience from either, and I am allowed to say that the hypothetical idea of giving birth sounds very unpleasant. (Not being female, I will never know) Just as my opinion that every trip on LSD I've had was a complete circle-jerk and a waste of time and effort, is as valid as anyone else's, as its a statement of my own subjective feelings on it.

but yes, if I know how a 'trick' works and that is it indeed a 'trick' I will fail to find it powerful, interesting or important. Why would I allow myself to be defrauded mentally?
 
rangrz said:
Why would I allow myself to be defrauded mentally?
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because listening to music is more fun then listening to sound
you aint gonna dance to the music if you simply want to analyze it as sound
my point of view is why would you not allow yourself to be defrauded mentally ?

rangrz said:
By taking a step back from something and analyzing it un-emotionally, we allow ourselves to be more accurate.
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when needed,
does that mean that it aint worth having sex if you dont want to make babies
what would be the point of using logic and reason when its time to have sex ?
i mean you can go read about it from a scientific point of view but once you are doing it there is no need to be exclusively in your head
does that mean that you are defrauded mentally when you are having sex ? and if so then what is wrong with that ?


rangrz said:
Would you trust results from the Large Hardon Collider if they where based on emotional thinking? Would you want your physician to treat you by thinking emotionally and not scientifically?
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would you trust music created by a computer program ? would you want your girlfriend to act like a physician when all you need is a hug or a smile or some compassion ?

science needs the brain but you dont need science to do art or to enjoy sex
would a scientist with a sense of humor be any less of a scientist ?
what if that scientist tell his children about santa clause does that make him intellectually dishonest ? it does but that push the kid to find out for himself and thats good
if you never let your heart to find out for himself then there wont be any reason to keep on living
having microscope in front of your eyes is similar to having telescope or nothing, they all give you a feedback on what things are
so i want science people to do science with their head but not everything is about science or your head
taking a scientific approach to music wont make music more interesting
so what if you end up being defrauded mentally ? its just as good as ending up being defrauded emotionally or sexually

so basically you allow yourself to be defrauded mentally to have a less unidimensional experience which allow your brain to gather more data to play with and come out with more relevant result in regards to whatever situation you are in imo
 
Last week, only 4 days after the birth of my triplets, I spent the night in a hotel by myself in a town where I didn't know anyone, in anticipation of an interview the following day. Most nights I have sleep, but this night I had drugs. I was bare naked in a dimly lit hotel room the entire time, as first 600mcg of LSD and later about 350mg of IM ketamine went in the ol' brain. I had the intention of 'cleaning house', so to speak, and confronting a lot of things I'd been leaving unsettled and trying not to think about, so as to be more ready to accept my role as a father. It definitely worked. What I ended up getting was the equivalent of a vision quest, where a person takes entheogens, sequesters himself in a dark room without sensory stimulation, confronts himself and gets primal. I'll write a trip report about it sometime -- it was an intensely personal experience, deeply spiritual, but not viscerally euphoric or at all sexual, and this isn't the place for it.

The end result was, I went into it and got what I went in for. I was sober 90min before I left the hotel in my suit to go on the interview, felt remarkably refreshed, and did really great. I was also filled with complete, unsullied joy in my full acceptance of my new stage in life as a father and a provider. I feel in no rush to touch LSD or ketamine or anything of that gravity again anytime soon. And I'm stoked to start my career.

Folx, don't try this at home. I just can't in good conscience recommend it. Please don't use psychedelics or dissociatives 14h before a serious job interview. That said, I had the balls slash stupidity (take your pick) to do it, and I have absolutely no regrets.
 
rangrz said:
Bacterial conjugation is not sexual reproduction, and it frequently is the case that the bacterium reproduces without a horizontal gene transfer having occurred previously. This also very true of normal somatic cell reproduction in multicellular organisms like humans. i.e. you get an injury, it begins to heal with cells reproducing, the cells reproduce without any new genetic material introduced. Is the cell not reproducing asexually?

Why would I cry at movie? What makes a story 'beautiful'? Its entirely subjective, is it not? By taking a step back from something and analyzing it un-emotionally, we allow ourselves to be more accurate. Would you trust results from the Large Hardon Collider if they where based on emotional thinking? Would you want your physician to treat you by thinking emotionally and not scientifically? Why then, should we treat the actual "meaning" of birth any differently.

If you get a good experience out of it, I guess good for you, enjoy it! Just as I would say if you get euphoria from doing LSD. however, I am not obliged to read anything deep or profound into your experience from either, and I am allowed to say that the hypothetical idea of giving birth sounds very unpleasant. (Not being female, I will never know) Just as my opinion that every trip on LSD I've had was a complete circle-jerk and a waste of time and effort, is as valid as anyone else's, as its a statement of my own subjective feelings on it.

but yes, if I know how a 'trick' works and that is it indeed a 'trick' I will fail to find it powerful, interesting or important. Why would I allow myself to be defrauded mentally?
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http://philpapers.org/rec/FRABSA
^
This is of many examples, a debate on this subject which has been studied.

WBC's being created in order to focus on an area perceived as infected or threatened somehow, is not the same.
My WBC have tricked themselves actually, into believing my bones joints and organs are infected, so they are actually attacking then as if they are infected, or the actual infection itself...for some reason.

Every living thing eats, sleeps, shits, fucks& then yes dies in order to ultimately survive.



Eventually we wake up, and realize that we know nothing, except how simple, fragile, relative and balanced life is. And how everything not known, is simply what all of this is.
its an infinite jest, a reaching reach, the faceless face.
Aleph-Bet
 
does that mean that it aint worth having sex if you dont want to make babies
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Sure it is, maybe I want the subjective euphoria of the sensory experience involved? Much as unlike a lot of people (but also, in common with a lot of people) I do ketamine and 2C-i for euphoria and not for any false sense of 'enlightenment'

would a scientist with a sense of humor be any less of a scientist ?
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As long s/he did not falsify their findings for the sake of humor. (Or at least not present jokes as serious science) it makes them no less of scientist.

would you trust music created by a computer program ?
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I don't trust (or distrust) music. So 'N/A'.

PiP- yeah, there are debates on it, IMO, it is not sexual reproduction, and in any event, if I have a single bacterium in a growth plate, when it divides to make two, there was no way that was sexual reproduction, so do they have asexual reproduction at least sometimes, even if you call horizontal gene transfer sexual.

How far to you want to call things 'reproduction' How non-living reactions, like a fissile system that has reached criticality?
 
rangrz said:
PiP- yeah, there are debates on it, IMO, it is not sexual reproduction, and in any event, if I have a single bacterium in a growth plate, when it divides to make two, there was no way that was sexual reproduction, so do they have asexual reproduction at least sometimes, even if you call horizontal gene transfer sexual.

How far to you want to call things 'reproduction' How non-living reactions, like a fissile system that has reached criticality?
Click to expand...

Now this is interesting, and since we are in P&S, the Hebrew letters Aleph&Bet seem relative....Aleph is the alpha 0, silent and massive, the creator/nothing who wanted very badly for there to be something, so Aleph, began a process of divination to have a sensuous experience of feeling. So hence forth Bet, the house the host the one who is a two. Then Gimel the third the cause that carriers the action into the fourth dimension of Dalet, the passage way to the fifth way of the calling: BEHOLD! "Hey" - all this is then conjoined by a sixth letter, Vav the nail, solidifying factor - where ones sword Zayin7 is attained before the gate of Chet8 is reached, here the ninth Tet a bundled rebirth, refined realization...before the Yod.10/33 the ethereal experience, the 7th Key at the bottom of the sea..'


hahah
~

the most beautiful place I'll never of been
the most fair face I'll never of seen
~
the most endless empty feeling, is always one filled by everything
 
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...
NSFW:
5705e8dd06.jpg
 
WUT? Again?


For anyone interested, this topic is covered in the most astounding way, I feel, with the first two letters, of the Hebrew Aleph/Bet...

___________________
:-/ I'm frustrated because this seems like one of the most simple and effective ways to show how perhaps the universe was created, and all the common cycles of life, which are unraveling and occurring, and ending all the time every where.

But described in 10 letters.


Its difficult to explain, how does one say, what is behind our cognitive comprehension,
this is nothing special, this is a very old idea. I say behind our cognitive comprehension,
because this is a fine example of what enables cognitive function to even occur, and the course of action taken.
 
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The lolwut was because I did not (and still do not) understand what you meant with your post on the alphabet. Can you try to explain it? I am not trying to troll, I just honestly do not follow.
 
Hmm. I mean the Hebrew "alphabet", Aleph-Bet.


Each letter is a symbol with a numeric value, with a story behind each letters origin.
Yeah, understanding the schematic of the Aleph/Bet would help to make sense of what I said...


Understanding the first two letters would be of great help.
Aleph is silent, 1, eternal nothing creative force, Aleph got lonely
and so created Bet, this created tangible creation, looking for sensation.
_________
So letting the thought of "4 equals five, it always has", being of comfort.
Could be the message here
Maybe.
 
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4=/=5!

<-----real number line------1---2---3---4---5>

4 is not at the same location on the number line as 5.

thus, 4=/=5
q.e.d.

What is the numeric value of a letter? Do you mean the ordinal number assigned to them relative to the location from start to end in the series of letters?

Aleph got lonely? How can an abstract concept get lonely? How can it want for sensation? You are making an anthropomorphic assignment to a concept.
 
... I can't sit here and try and explain this to you, and hope you get it, or even actually want to ;)
(& if I wasn't stuck using my phone I might try)

Please sir, google it.


Philosophy or spirituality does not seem to be your bag, and if you can't be bothered to learn more on the subject you are trying to defend, you are trolling.
 
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To me, philosophy is similar to science. It treats subjects and ideas with rigorous informal (natural language) logic, and where possible, treats them with formal (mathematical) logic. However, it hits on subjects that fall outside the scope of experimental science.

Descartes was a Philosopher. As was Aristotle. Both where also mathematicians. Both also applied strict logic in things they did and arguments they made.

Spirituality, is of course different. But to claim I am not engaging in discourse that falls with in philosophy seems incorrect.
 
Science and Philosophy are similar to me in the way they are both evaluation, science is evaluation of ones surroundings, where as philosophy is the evaluation of ones self+their surroundings. Openness to maybe find that environmental oneness. They need each other.

But this now is not on-topic
 
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