ColtDan
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Absolutely bang on
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The EADD Spirituality Thread
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Absolutely bang on
Chatative
Bluelight Crew
Had a quick read over the Anthropic Principle. I was particularly interested by the Strong Anthropic Principle, which suggests the universe is compelled, in a manner of speaking, to lead to conscious life.
That doesn't conflict with my thoughts... I don't think anyone had a hand in creating our Universe as such or the things that came to exist within it.
It's more the conundrum that everything is made up of something. So what or how did matter come into existence in the first place? This isn't something I want to think on too hard... my head would probably explode but it gives me a belief that something greater is going on.
Vurtual said:
+1
Very interesting. Certainly time is something that we observe, as conscious life. I don't think it would be right to say that time does not exist, rather that it doesn't necessarily exist as we perceive it.
I'd just like to point out that although I talk of something greater, it is not necessarily the same as Raas's God. He has a specific belief. Let's not confuse the two...
Why is it plenty though? Is there something about this life that means you wouldn't want to live another one? I'm not saying that one life isn't enough. Certainly you do sound a bit nihilistic.
We might be 'insignificant' in the grand scheme of things in the Universe, but nonetheless we still have an impact, which is very significant from our own perspective. Humans most definitely have an impact on our own planet. Nothing is truly insignificant.
Our mere existence is significant if it is truly a fluke, no?
Septonn
Bluelighter
Agree with PTCH on this one. Although I do catch myself saying little prayers/ thanks to some unknown and unnamed higher power in times of need/ happiness
Well that's an extremely pessimistic way of looking at us lol. I don't think it's fair to say "insignificant as fuck", considering all the great people, works of art and sacrifices that have come and gone throughout history. The more we age also, the more we develop and significant our consciousness becomes.
parttime crackhead said:
He didn't wait millions of years.
You forget, he's in a different realm where time runs at a different pace. Millions of years on this planet, could be potentially viewed in seconds if you are observing from another realm.
Like er, you fast forward a 3hr DVD in a few seconds for instance.
What about those who actively fight to save the planet? can you really tar them off with the same brush?
As I said earlier:
raas said:
Life is about learning.
parttime crackhead
Bluelighter
True.
It's not pessimistic. It's realistic. I'm not saying "Life is shite. Humans are shite. I wish we were all dead" with a big sad face on. I'm just telling you what I believe. I don't need something nice to look forward to after this life, I'm happy enough enjoying this one. Memento mori.
You (not you Dan, forgot I'd quoted you) say humans aren't insignificant because look at the things they've done. On this tiny little star, in this tiny little galaxy, in amongst endless others. For a few thousand years out of billions. Insignificant as fuck.
StoneHappyMonday
Bluelighter
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You only do that because we have a consciousness that is uncomfortable with the unknown. That and the fact we're indoctrinated to fuck with Christian/religious shit before we can even dress ourselves properly.
Chatative
Bluelight Crew
You are choosing to look at us from one perspective & Raas from the other. I don't think either of you are wrong really.
It's very possible to take realism too far. You are almost forgetting what it is to be human.
I think the Shulgin quote at the top of the page might have some relevance here...
ColtDan
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parttime crackhead
Bluelighter
You're right, I possibly am taking it slightly too far for the sake of argument.
We are insignificant though. Especially in the universe but even on this planet. How long have we been around? Sure, we've made a heavy impact in our short time, fucked the place up quite badly. But think how long the earth was around before us. It'll likely be around for that amount of time after us as well, think how insignificant humans will be after the earth has had a few million years to sort itself out once we're gone.
We are insignificant though. Especially in the universe but even on this planet. How long have we been around? Sure, we've made a heavy impact in our short time, fucked the place up quite badly. But think how long the earth was around before us. It'll likely be around for that amount of time after us as well, think how insignificant humans will be after the earth has had a few million years to sort itself out once we're gone.
parttime crackhead
Bluelighter
I'd say I wasn't taking it anywhere near as far as religion lol
I'm not trying to claim tax exempt status
But if you want to join my church I accept donations through paypal.
I'm not trying to claim tax exempt status
But if you want to join my church I accept donations through paypal.
ColtDan
Bluelighter
- Joined
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Chatative
Bluelight Crew
I was hoping to try & look at these issues without the bias of religion (*cough* Raas, or the bashing thereof for that matter 
) ... of course I welcome the religious view on spirituality as much as those who disregard it altogether though.
I would have expected folk who take hallucinogenics to be a bit more open-minded about these things.
) ... of course I welcome the religious view on spirituality as much as those who disregard it altogether though.I would have expected folk who take hallucinogenics to be a bit more open-minded about these things.
parttime crackhead
Bluelighter
Quite a bit, aye.
Vurtual
Bluelighter
I've always had problems with the simplistic idea that 'after' i die 'i' go somewhere else and have another type of life in 'heaven' (or a bardo or whatever). I can't imagine there would be an 'i' involved; surely death would include at least ego-death (with the death of the required brain furniture) - and if there's no ego surviving death, heaven certainly won't be as some christians/muslims imagine it (like here but nicer). Also in the conventional version, it just seems like a lot of extra 'stuff' to fit into the cosmos/multiverse, which is already amazing and full enough as it is (maybe heaven's made out of dark matter ). And if there is 'heaven' it seems likely that it would be timeless/outside time/all times (judging by ego-deaths), so 'after'-life or anything 'happening' at all doesn't really seem to work (except for the one big happening of everything at once). Though i know nothing obviously.
I like talking heads' description of heaven: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zNdMc6wGtU
...
The stuff i was waffling before is bits of hindu cosmology mashed up with Einstein's views of time/god, Many Worlds theory and Paul Dirac's quantum view of time (wedged together with lashings of scifi, acid and magical thinking). Much of Hindu cosomology is imo so much more interesting/sophisticated than the abrahamic stuff - it can easily be squeezed into a modern scientific cosmology context (some of it doesn't even need squeezing). I don't really 'believe' all this shit though (the glory of agnosticism) but i have fun entertaining it (and have experienced some of it (maybe delusionally)
Some more wacky science: Wheeler and Feynamn had a semi-serious idea that there's only one electron in the universe whizzing back and forth in time doing all the electron jobs - maybe god/heaven is the universal electron...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe
). And if there is 'heaven' it seems likely that it would be timeless/outside time/all times (judging by ego-deaths), so 'after'-life or anything 'happening' at all doesn't really seem to work (except for the one big happening of everything at once). Though i know nothing obviously.I like talking heads' description of heaven: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zNdMc6wGtU
...
The stuff i was waffling before is bits of hindu cosmology mashed up with Einstein's views of time/god, Many Worlds theory and Paul Dirac's quantum view of time (wedged together with lashings of scifi, acid and magical thinking). Much of Hindu cosomology is imo so much more interesting/sophisticated than the abrahamic stuff - it can easily be squeezed into a modern scientific cosmology context (some of it doesn't even need squeezing). I don't really 'believe' all this shit though (the glory of agnosticism
) but i have fun entertaining it (and have experienced some of it (maybe delusionally)Some more wacky science: Wheeler and Feynamn had a semi-serious idea that there's only one electron in the universe whizzing back and forth in time doing all the electron jobs - maybe god/heaven is the universal electron...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe
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partime crackhead said:
Oh come on.
So if the Universe was 500 miles squared, then we'd be worthy of going to an afterlife? but if it's massive, we deserve to die?
The size of the Universe is a dictator of whether we deserve an afterlife or not? That's what you're saying here...
And despite the vastness of the universe, I'm sure almost all physicists would agree that LIFE is the most significant part of it.
Think of what we've done and achieved, billions of years of evolution bequeathed onto ourselves... and we've done so much, progressed so far... and how much blood has been spilled by how many heroic people to get this far and have what peace and civility there is in our world today?
Think of all the great artists, leaders and activists... Albert Eistnien, Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, William Shakespeare, Martin Luther, Nick Farage...
And you think you're realistic to consider us as "insignificant as fuck"?
Ludicrous thinking... Pessimistic to da max...
parttime crackhead
Bluelighter
You're deliberately misunderstanding what I'm saying.
I didn't say we don't deserve an after-life because the universe is massive and we're nothing. I said I don't believe in an after-life, and that we are insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Again, you are mentioning things that you seem to think are massive and important and I'll need to say that blood was spilled, great leaders lead and great activists activated, on this little tiny rock in this massive universe, therefore - insignificant. You keep hitting out with things that are significant only for a few thousand years on this one little planet.
Life probably is the most significant thing in the universe. You think we are the only life out there? Remember that even on this planet there was millions of years of life before us and there will be millions of years of life after us. Humans aren't permanent. One day earth will be shot of us.
You think it's pessimistic to claim that humans aren't the be all and end all of everything. I think it's arrogant to claim otherwise.
I didn't say we don't deserve an after-life because the universe is massive and we're nothing. I said I don't believe in an after-life, and that we are insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Again, you are mentioning things that you seem to think are massive and important and I'll need to say that blood was spilled, great leaders lead and great activists activated, on this little tiny rock in this massive universe, therefore - insignificant. You keep hitting out with things that are significant only for a few thousand years on this one little planet.
Life probably is the most significant thing in the universe. You think we are the only life out there? Remember that even on this planet there was millions of years of life before us and there will be millions of years of life after us. Humans aren't permanent. One day earth will be shot of us.
You think it's pessimistic to claim that humans aren't the be all and end all of everything. I think it's arrogant to claim otherwise.