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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

The EADD Metathread - "HR approach to dangerous drugs" branch

Yes Sam, quite true. Ganging implies co-ordinated activity, that doesn't, to my knowledge, happen; sometimes a majority all post at once and it might look ganging up but it's not, it's just a numbers thing.

I'm pretty sure that, if anything, when a member is seen to be getting swamped, people hold back because they don't want to pile on.
 
knock said:
I'm pretty sure that, if anything, when a member is seen to be getting swamped, people hold back because they don't want to pile on.
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Ironically, the only time I've seen anything approaching a 'gang' response has been from people promoting 'HR', often with a righteous zeal.

It's almost always been counterproductive.
 
It is odd that we all have different impressions of what goes on, yet we all have access to read the same posts.

The only thing that gives me some basis for pushing the fact that I've got a more accurate view than Si, is that I tend to read a hell of a lot of posts. But I don't know how much Si reads. Maybe he reads them all.
 
Sammy G said:
That's the received wisdom, but try as I might, I really can't think of any real examples. I know of several examples of the exact opposite.

More to the point, it was private intervention (thanks Pagey and BCF) which did more to deter me from dangerous behaviour on my last drug binge. No amount of public ticking-off posting links to HR resources would have changed my mind.
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There are examples of the opposite agreed, but a lot goes unchallenged, presumably because it's almost normal amongst a lot of members here. I guess I have a smaller threshold for usage because I only take drugs a handful of times a year at most and have never been into heavy/binge usage.

As for you changing your mind: YMMV. :) I don't think many regulars on here will change their habits based on a public ticking off and I think I covered that earlier, but like I said, it's a public forum - people are viewing this who aren't regulars or even members and we owe it to them, as a public forum, to at least highlight what is less than optimal HR practice.

It's not major changes I think are needed. Overall I think Bluelight, Erowid and all the other resources available to people are good things - but like everything in life, there are improvements to be made if you can accept that it's not perfect (and nothing ever is btw).
 
Si Ingwe said:
To be honest, the only HR advice I'd wanna give an addict is, you need to stop.
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I disagree vehemently with this sentiment. Addiction per se need not be more harmful than the alternative.
Si Ingwe said:
Alcoholics don't get advice that says yeah yeah, a couple of pints is fine, just don't drink a couple bottles of vodka. Alcholics are trained to stop fucking drinking, period!
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And we all know how well that works ..... Makes lots of money for charismatic 12-step leaders, while having precious little effect on relapse rates. Because the concept that you are helpless before a "higher power" is fucking riduculous in the first place.
 
RLP said:
Such is politics!
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Well, kinda. But I think the case in hand is more like science. Scientists make observations and amass data, make theories and test them out. We have all the same data in front of us. Scientists seem able to come to a consensus. We should be able to do that too.

It's not like "politics" in the sense that the "data" of social life, which politics is about, is not equally available to all and sundry. I can't see what the conditions are like in Leeds, so I can't make much comment about that. But we can all see what the conditions are like on EADD. We have equal access. PMs and staff threads excepted.
 
RLP said:
There are examples of the opposite agreed, but a lot goes unchallenged, presumably because it's almost normal amongst a lot of members here. I guess I have a smaller threshold for usage because I only take drugs a handful of times a year at most and have never been into heavy/binge usage.
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I'll agree that sometimes a regular member might be on a binge and the other members may be a little blasé about it. Again, we come back to the fact this is a community with people who know each other's use patterns pretty well, which Shambles touched upon.

Is the fact that people do become blasé about these things down to Bluelight though?

And if so, what can realistically be done, short of forcing people to publicly voice their concern / disapproval?
 
knock said:
Well, kinda. But I think the case in hand is more like science. Scientists make observations and amass data, make theories and test them out. We have all the same data in front of us. Scientists seem able to come to a consensus. We should be able to do that too.
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There's no facts around perceived optimal harm reduction, only opinions.

I mean, we all know that saying take all the ecstasy you want, as often you can, is terrible advice, but when it comes to highlighting posts to try and make people aware of their behaviour, or backing off and not pushing them away, then we're down into opinions. :)
 
Sammy G said:
I'll agree that sometimes a regular member might be on a binge and the other members may be a little blasé about it. Again, we come back to the fact this is a community with people who know each other's use patterns pretty well, which Shambles touched upon.

Is the fact that people do become blasé about these things down to Bluelight though?

And if so, what can realistically be done, short of forcing people to publicly voice their concern / disapproval?
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Again - it's one for discussion. I highlighted a possible 'solution' earlier by having a moderator edit a post with a little "This is not advisable - please consult Erowid vaults for more information" much like the *snip* for sourcing, but am conscious that it'd be a lot of work and others might not be in favour of it. That's fine, but I'd like to see others opinions on how to make this forum a safer place for regulars and non-regulars alike, rather than simply saying 'we're doing alright as we are'.

I don't really care what the consensus is on improving HR, as long as we open up the discussion in the first place!
 
RLP said:
There's no facts around perceived optimal harm reduction, only opinions.

I mean, we all know that saying take all the ecstasy you want, as often you can, is terrible advice, but when it comes to highlighting posts to try and make people aware of their behaviour, or backing off and not pushing them away, then we're down into opinions. :)
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The facts I was talking about are the words on the page.

Interpretation of the words will vary, I suppose that's right. And then when you throw attitudes in about what should be said, then yes it becomes like politics.

But there is a clear argument which I think is the HR argument: it is better to explain how to IV heroin safely than to leave someone with a needle and a bag of heroin to work it out by trial and error.

Si might say "We need to tell them NOT to take heroin". OK, maybe we should say that, but if we don't also tell them how to take it safely, then when they overdose or get hepatitis or some other terrible thing happens due to lack of knowledge, then HR has failed.

Because Just Say No doesn't work very well! The state has been saying "Just Say No" for decades and it hasn't worked very well.
 
The moderator edit thing sounds like the best idea to emerge so far. Doesn't fuck with the flow of the forum, doesn't exclude anybody (even those pesky cliques of dangerous drug users) and doesn't come across as unnecessarily preachy.

And I wouldn't be too concerned with giving the mods extra work. They love it.
 
I really do not love it. I do enjoy EADD, but I really don't enjoy moderating. Nor do I enjoy being moderated. I much prefer being a plain old active member.

I have all kinds of problems with BL and moderation and staff and suchlike. But that's a different discussion.

I haven't spotted the "moderator edit thing which is the best idea". I'll need to have a read over the thread again. Or maybe you could treat me to a post number, Sam?
 
Quit and give me the modstick then. You know it makes sense.

funny-marines-pics.jpg
 
We all like to have an active member. ;)

I was kidding; the mods already do more than is asked of them. Though I do think it's the closest we've come to a sensible idea thus far. Which isn't saying all that much.
 
knock said:
I really do not love it. I do enjoy EADD, but I really don't enjoy moderating. Nor do I enjoy being moderated. I much prefer being a plain old active member.

I have all kinds of problems with BL and moderation and staff and suchlike. But that's a different discussion.

I haven't spotted the "moderator edit thing which is the best idea". I'll need to have a read over the thread again. Or maybe you could treat me to a post number, Sam?
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I like that idea too, I've seen similar sites do that, though haven't posted enough elsewhere to see if it's had an effect. People can still post whatever but if it's a baaaaad idea it's noted there in the post rather than starting a back and forth and derailing threads.

edit: Erowid do it as well, with the experience vault. Put a wee disclaimer at the end making it clear that the writer has taken dangerous combinations/doses
 
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Aye, dont start going sam-style modding, hate to say it mr G but you had a certain way of moderating things that you didn't like/agree with, caused much uproar if I remember rightly.
 
knock said:
I haven't spotted the "moderator edit thing which is the best idea". I'll need to have a read over the thread again. Or maybe you could treat me to a post number, Sam?
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Post 47 and 71.

Proving I can provide more to this forum than squirrel pictures and right wing bile.

Av ittttt.
 
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