The EADD Mental Health Support Thread

[charlie clean]

A thoughtful post, Knockando, and you're right to say a too-strict adherence to the precise meaning of words serves little purpose. Indeed, you can argue there's no point in thinking in nebulous terms like 'happiness' at all. Whether you see your cup as half full or half empty, you'll still wake up in the morning and it's always best to maintain a cheery countenance if only for the sake of those around you. It's bleak out there sometimes, but this illusion is all we have. Keep the rest to yourself, do your best to shove depressing thoughts into that compartment of your mind marked 'later' and keep on keeping on. Anything worth finding will find you, not the other way around. Try not to worry and good luck.

 

[knock]

A thoughtful post, Knockando, and you're right to say a too-strict adherence to the precise meaning of words serves little purpose. Indeed, you can argue there's no point in thinking in nebulous terms like 'happiness' at all. Whether you see your cup as half full or half empty, you'll still wake up in the morning and it's always best to maintain a cheery countenance if only for the sake of those around you. It's bleak out there sometimes, but this illusion is all we have. Keep the rest to yourself, do your best to shove depressing thoughts into that compartment of your mind marked 'later' and keep on keeping on. Anything worth finding will find you, not the other way around. Try not to worry and good luck.

:D I'm laughing because your advice is the exact opposite of what I think on the matter; I'm pretty sure that shoving unhappiness away in a box is the reason I jumped out of my window and broke my foot! A conclusion I came to before I even met my therapist, who feels the same way.

My family is expert at shoving emotions in boxes, it looks great from the outside but it's shit on the inside! I'm too sober to go into this at length just now though but it's interesting we disagree so thoroughly, I wonder why? Maybe there's a happy medium. Or maybe generalisations don't really apply generally.

Brimz, yeah it was a great idea for a thread, nice one! And hope you're feeling a bit better, or at least on the way to it.

 

[Shambles]

A thoughtful post, Knockando, and you're right to say a too-strict adherence to the precise meaning of words serves little purpose. Indeed, you can argue there's no point in thinking in nebulous terms like 'happiness' at all. Whether you see your cup as half full or half empty, you'll still wake up in the morning and it's always best to maintain a cheery countenance if only for the sake of those around you. It's bleak out there sometimes, but this illusion is all we have. Keep the rest to yourself, do your best to shove depressing thoughts into that compartment of your mind marked 'later' and keep on keeping on. Anything worth finding will find you, not the other way around. Try not to worry and good luck.

And this is why we have junkies...

Not knocking it. Just somewhat familiar is all...

I tend more down the Knock line on this one at the moment. With a side-order or two of Charlie... as it were...

Whilst sweepin' stuff 'neath a handy rug or two is... handy for a while, it's only feasible longterm if you are a very dedicated sweeper... with the surname "Clean" I suspect some here are better than others...

For those of us forced away from the poppy teat at perilously early of an age it can be a tad more complex. And likely for the rest who lack that somniferum-based shoulder too.

Whilst my scagbag lies in Charlie's camp, the (more or less) weaned me has to side with Knock... Bottling is for babies, brewers and bagheads. And like them all as species, it also tends to lead to shite somewhere down the line.

 

[Allein]

Knockando is right on the money for me in a number of areas.

IME drug use is rarely the cause of depression its far more likely to be a symptom, yes I have used drugs of many types for many years, on looking back I used drugs daily for 25 years, of one sort or another. But looking even further back, as I have managed to do through councelling it it clear I had problems that run way back into my childhood.

I used drugs and other means to bury those issues and hide away from them, for most of my 20's "happyness" came in little pills I took at the weekend and a numbed myself with cannabis for the weekdays, later came the alcohol and the stims and the benzos.

I don't don't fully subscribe to the, Depression being a chemical imbalance in the brain theory although I do believe that it has a big part to play, this is more about my personal beliefs, I don't buy it that we are just controlled by what kind of chemical soup we have washing round our brains I think it's far more complex than that or ADs would be far more effective than they are. More effective ADs may be found in the future but they aren't going to resolve peoples underlying problems.

I do think that in at least some cases they can be a useful tool to gain some stability in order to start to address those issues, but that's as far as they will ever go IMO, the other answers are to be found from within and we may well need help in doing that. I have also come to accept that just like other condition, ,my Psoriasis for example that it is just part of who I am and its a case of acceptance and working with who you are, not expecting a silver bullet, that would be a lobotomy surely ? or the chemical equivalent, I've been on Chlorpromazine which gave me a glimpse of how that would feel and it's not life

Just one last point I make to so many people, if your not happy with your GP then find another one, I've done this several times. It's vital you have a decent relationship with them and I agree with the Rev Shambles () here you should be as honest as you are able with them. I spilled totally about my full drug history to both my GP and a number of counselors and for me my career would be finished if even half of that got out.

But you can't expect decent treatment unless you give them this information, decent medical people don't judge you for this, in fact IME they are grateful that you are being honest and you will get better treatment as a result. The only issue it's caused me is that they won't prescribe me anything that has addiction potential, benzos in the main, big deal, the amount they would prescribe wouldn't get me very far anyway and I would munch the whole script in a day so they are right not to give them to me.

And so endeth the sermon of 23 for this fine Sunday morn.

Be careful out there my people

 

[mydrugbuddy]

I've tried dozens of 'self help' books with those familiar themes of 'how to be happy', 'how to be confident' etc. They have all been essentially useless, just basically repeating the same phrases a thousand times over: "just be happy", "just be confident", eh so its that easy eh..8(

I recently started one that initially seemed much more promising and insightful than all the others "12 smart things to do when the drink and drugs are gone' by Allen Berger. In a nutshell it's about maintaining mental health without drugs. It's main theme seems to be 'emotional maturity', and how people with drug and drink problems tend to be emotionally immature. They tend to have expectations of how things should be and become upset when things dont go as they expect. For example not being treated nicely would not upset those with emotional maturity, but those without this emotional maturity would be thrown off balance and upset by such treatent.

I thought at first this was very insightful and seemed to be getting to the heart of some of my issues, ah so that my problem - i'm just emotionally immature...But as usual with this type of book it seems to start off wonderfully for the first few paragraphs or pages, but then you begin to realise that the rest of the book just repeats the same things over and over. The cynical part of me think these books are all about how to pad out one idea sufficiently to make a whole book and some cash out of something that could have been better summed up in a 2000 word essay or article....

 

[brimz]

Brimz, yeah it was a great idea for a thread, nice one! And hope you're feeling a bit better, or at least on the way to it.

Yeah i'm feeling a bit better mate ta .

 

[scrooloose]

I've tried dozens of 'self help' books with those familiar themes of 'how to be happy', 'how to be confident' etc. They have all been essentially useless, just basically repeating the same phrases a thousand times over: "just be happy", "just be confident", eh so its that easy eh..8(

I recently started one that initially seemed much more promising and insightful than all the others "12 smart things to do when the drink and drugs are gone' by Allen Berger. In a nutshell it's about maintaining mental health without drugs. It's main theme seems to be 'emotional maturity', and how people with drug and drink problems tend to be emotionally immature. They tend to have expectations of how things should be and become upset when things dont go as they expect. For example not being treated nicely would not upset those with emotional maturity, but those without this emotional maturity would be thrown off balance and upset by such treatent.

I thought at first this was very insightful and seemed to be getting to the heart of some of my issues, ah so that my problem - i'm just emotionally immature...But as usual with this type of book it seems to start off wonderfully for the first few paragraphs or pages, but then you begin to realise that the rest of the book just repeats the same things over and over. The cynical part of me think these books are all about how to pad out one idea sufficiently to make a whole book and some cash out of something that could have been better summed up in a 2000 word essay or article....

Good post. Personally i haven't the concentration span to read this kind of crap. Even if i did,i wouldn't bother.

 

[Allein]

^^^

What was the point in that one liner, good post but it's crap ....if you've got nothin nice to say......

 

[scrooloose]

^^^

What was the point in that one liner, good post but it's crap ....if you've got nothin nice to say......

i wasn't being nasty,i was agreeing that this type of self help books are crap.

 

[charlie clean]

Naw, you maybe misunderstand, Knocks. You try not to lay your blues on others but you don't pretend to yourself, either..bit like that Pryor/Wilder movie where they're innocents in gaol - fair allegory - and swagger down the landing before breaking down and boo-hooing in the privacy of their cell. There's a big difference between genuine existential angst and self-pitying whingers who like everyone to know of their misery. Nothing you can think of which you should be afraid, the best way out is through and other cliches.

The one time I was close enough to a clinical depression I didn't laugh in six weeks. My partner finally pushed a Wodehouse book into my hands and, completely uninterested but lost and wanting to oblige, I went through the motions and skimmed a few pages. All of a sudden, some image tickled my fancy, I laughed out like loud and, just like that, I was on the way back. Was like a dam had been broken or a great weight lifted. Made me appreciate how laughter is perhaps the most valuable of all human commodities and why everyone loves a good comedian.

 

[Marmalade]

what were the main contributing factors to you not laughing for 6 weeks?

^^ I think that's what knock finds more relevant than how you got your laugh back. I do anyway (find it more relevant)

[edit] and relevant is meant in the context of needing to understand what made you that unhappy, with the intent of mastering it or preventing recurrence, or if unavoidables, then creating healthy coping strategies, for those times there isn't a book giving angel around

 

[Allein]

i wasn't being nasty,i was agreeing that this type of self help books are crap.

My apologies, the semantics of the English language I guess, I can see what your meaning was now, others had been pulling my chain and as usual I was hanging of the end of it growling and barking like a clapped out guard dog

@ charlie clean, before I go off at a tangent, I've read back through your posts and I'm not really sure what you actually saying so it's a little difficult to really respond.

It comes across a little like your saying that those that are depressed should put a happy smile on there face and read a book and all will be well. However you are clearly not that stupid, as I can, unfortunately speak from experience and whilst "unhappiness" could well be used a term for some of the obvious symptoms of depression that the rest of the world may see, it doesn't begin to describe the full illness.

I appreciate that you have experienced a drawn out period of feeling unhappy and managed to pull yourself free from it with a little external help, I'm not sure why you seem not to consider that as mild depression. Maybe it is because I have been diagnosed before and been relatively ill with depression but I have been told more that once that if I feel sustained unhappiness for 2 weeks that I should go to a doctor without delay.

For me it's not about being "happy" although that when it happens is a thing to be savored, it's about not having the symptoms of depression, which I won't patronise you by listing. Happiness is far from the top of the list of my priorities although it's a longer term aspiration.

So I'll cut to the chase, are you suggesting that there is a clear line between those that have sustained unhappiness and those that have depression, in which case how do you define that line and how would you expect a medical professional to distinguish between the 2?

Do you think the treatment of the sustained "unhappiness" and "depression" are different, I'm confused by what it is you are getting at.

 

[scrooloose]

That's ok ATM. I can see how that comment could have been misconstrued.

 

[Sprout]

Hmmmm Bi-Polar, Borderline Personality Disorder, Social Anxiety, GAD, remittent Psychosis, possible Aspergers'.
Long story short: I'm fucking awesome.

 

[charlie clean]

My apologies, the semantics of the English language I guess, I can see what your meaning was now, others had been pulling my chain and as usual I was hanging of the end of it growling and barking like a clapped out guard dog

@ charlie clean, before I go off at a tangent, I've read back through your posts and I'm not really sure what you actually saying so it's a little difficult to really respond

So I'll cut to the chase, are you suggesting that there is a clear line between those that have sustained unhappiness and those that have depression, in which case how do you define that line and how would you expect a medical professional to distinguish between the 2?

Do you think the treatment of the sustained "unhappiness" and "depression" are different, I'm confused by what it is you are getting at.

Not quite sure what I'm saying myself. As you note, we're all up against semantics. The words may have one association for the speaker and another for the listener and discussion goes nowhere.

I'm sure 'depressed' people aren't 'happy' but are unhappy people necessarily depressed? A clinical depression victim will not be able successfully to 'put on a happy face' but an unhappy person can. Often, an 'unhappy' man may find those around him who think themselves quite content are, by his standards, not so at all; in this instance, it might be a little selfish for him to act hard done by. It's all dependent on the nature of the 'unhappiness' and very subjective but, there again, so are most things.

There's no right to happiness and, until recently, suffering was considered to form an inevitable part of the human condition. I suppose it all comes down to the great Socratic goal to 'know thyself'. Once you're close enough to this fine achievement, such terminology and, indeed, most 'personal' attributions, become quite irrelevant. But don't ask me to try to explain.

 

[YellowPolkaDotHalo]

Hmmmm Bi-Polar, Borderline Personality Disorder, Social Anxiety, GAD, remittent Psychosis, possible Aspergers'.
Long story short: I'm fucking awesome.

Yup you are

I suppose it all comes down to the great Socratic goal to 'know thyself'. Once you're close enough to this fine achievement, such terminology and, indeed, most 'personal' attributions, become quite irrelevant

Amen!

 

[Marmalade]

There's no right to happiness and, until recently, suffering was considered to form an inevitable part of the human condition. I suppose it all comes down to the great Socratic goal to 'know thyself'. Once you're close enough to this fine achievement, such terminology and, indeed, most 'personal' attributions, become quite irrelevant. But don't ask me to try to explain.

like YDPH, I'll say an amen to that, well actually more of a SKOL, with a glass of snaps, but it's all in the same spirit. her holy one, is like my ethyl one ;p

the above sentiment does seem to be at odds with what you've been discussing with knock tho, imo anyways, fwiw. knowing 'thyself' means not always soldiering on, and putting on a brave face.

I think I'm a little confused about your outlook now. I'm trying not to ask you to explain. but it's hard

 

[YellowPolkaDotHalo]

boundary issues.^


I'm curious about your outlook too charlie and would love to see the thread waft off into 'what is self' and advaitaish territory... But I totally respect that you don't want to go there right now

 

[charlie clean]

Apologies for a lack of clarity but it's not that complex. If you've the blues because you're skint or not getting any, obliging friends can help. The rest is really private business between you and you. You do your best to show your cheery side to people you like and stay home when you can't manage a smile. If you're honest, above all with yourself, contentment finds 'you' without your trying, although appreciating the difference between trying and making the effort, as your tiny fragment grows closer to the universal mind, f you want to get into it in words, you wind up like Ouspensky, writing sentences with a thousand commas that go on for pages and leave the reader wondering wtf he's waffling on about.

 

[Shambles]

I'm sure 'depressed' people aren't 'happy' but are unhappy people necessarily depressed? A clinical depression victim will not be able successfully to 'put on a happy face' but an unhappy person can. Often, an 'unhappy' man may find those around him who think themselves quite content are, by his standards, not so at all; in this instance, it might be a little selfish for him to act hard done by. It's all dependent on the nature of the 'unhappiness' and very subjective but, there again, so are most things.

Unless they've learnt to be good at it.

The line between "unhappiness" and "depression" may be so feint as to be invisible. I couldn't honestly say on which side I reside. But I do think I'm at least dimly aware of what passes for "normality" and - assuming "the norm" is not pathological - I would be the other. Probably. Possibly. Maybe.

I actually don't think happiness - or lack thereof - has much to do with depression. Happiness is fleeting. Depression tends to linger a while.

There's no right to happiness and, until recently, suffering was considered to form an inevitable part of the human condition. I suppose it all comes down to the great Socratic goal to 'know thyself'. Once you're close enough to this fine achievement, such terminology and, indeed, most 'personal' attributions, become quite irrelevant. But don't ask me to try to explain.

I suspect I agree. But lacking explanation I can't quite explain why