The Devil is determinism and God is free will and you are both.

[ovenbakedskittles]

One of the most fascinating things about human life and experience is that we have the ability to be skeptical and narrow minded but at the same time have the ability to be expansive and philosophical and contemplate things that contradict our current belief systems.

I think we live in a time that will be looked back on as the most polarizing event that has occurred throughout the history of humans given that we don’t destroy ourselves or become robots or slaves to robots. There’s a lot of things to consider out there in the world that I feel we don’t pay much attention to sometimes and as a result we become skeptical and dogmatically close minded to stuff. And I think there is different levels to the dogma.

For instance religion is a force that has been imposed on society for centuries and centuries even though there is a polarizing aspect to it that comforts and encourages people to engage in higher vibrational things. But overall is a very outdated system that keeps us stuck on a certain evolutionary level that is no longer beneficial for us and people don’t want to let that go and realize there are other ways of seeing things.

And there is of course the controversial dogma of science and materialist reductionist thinking which I feel is the modern version of religion that took on a new form to deceive the public. But before the atheist/agnostic/scientific community crucifies me for saying such a thing I do realize that it too has its own polarizing side of getting people to think more logically and valuing their intellect and expressing appreciation for the physical experience and it too inspires people to bring out the best in themselves.

So it’s not so much that I hate science or something but rather I feel many members are blind to their own arrogance and striking similarities in behavior to religion as far as imposing the idea that it is the answer to life and finding out the nature of reality and where we all came from and presenting it as objective fact. Sure there is debate among scientists conversing and comparing observations and conjectures but there are also Christians that disagree with eachother as well as to what certain things in the Bible mean and the interpretation of certain ideologies and traditions that are projected out of the Bible. And also science itself has this stubborn attitude towards spiritual ideas the same way religion is stubborn towards evolution and it becomes more of a conflict that subconsciously perpetuates itself through stubborn arguments and debates.

We need to learn to accept all these things as one and paint a new picture of what reality actual is. A picture that accommodates for all of our perspectives and disagreements and different outlooks. Some of you might say it’s impossible to do that. But that is only fear and vulnerability and pessimism and lack of awareness towards the powers of your own mind.

Let me cut right to it since I am rambling like always. You are God, you are the devil, you are Jesus Christ, you are Buddha, you are the universe. But you are also brainwashed into thinking there is only one reality to live by and only one way of doing things. That is why we argue. That is why we hate. That is why we fragment reality into the physical and non physical. The devil is your own will to choose determinism and habit and separation and conflict and disconnection over freedom, love, happiness, joy and unity which is what God is. You choose to feel sad you choose to feel depressed and angry and mad at the world. You choose to create these fucked up scenarios for yourself so that you have an excuse to express your pain and emotion and unresolved traumas that you’re not even aware of. Once you disown yourself from that fact and dissociate from your own free will you are activating under the consciousness of what we call the devil. But it is really your own personal resistance and your own lack of awareness that is contributing or adding on to this collective supernatural force that is connected like a thread to everyone’s subconscious. It is almost like a robot mind that does the same thing over and over again but at the same time it is very intelligent in its own way and it can strategize and have thoughts of its own.

But people aren’t used to thinking in terms of the collective and are far more familiar with thinking of things on an individual level which is why it is so easy to fall victim to the skeptical view of science and mainstream academia. I hope you can see the integration of the ideas from both the mythological side and the secular side combining the fact that it is our choice whether we do bad things or not and our brain chemicals do become disrupted and imbalanced and can be passed down generationally but at the same time it is the lack of realization of this choice due to the constant tendency to fall into habit and resistance patterns which feeds this underlying collective thread of energy with its own thoughts and intentions to the point where we feel like we are being controlled and manipulated by something that is separate from us. But it is in fact one in the same with our own consciousness and it is in fact this supernatural phenomenon that is disrupting these brain chemicals that scientists then observe and analyze and postulate that the solution is to introduce chemicals in the form of drugs to counteract these imbalances.

 

[sdxyln]

Everything good is there for the taking but pleasure must come first. Nothing wrong with it. This is what being human means today, which really started about five hundred or so years ago.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

There is no devil; only God.

 

[Gormur]

I agree. From what I've read, the church invented the Devil to prosecute witches. That doesn't negate malevolent entities existing but lay people didn't pay attention to demonology till the concept of a devil arose. It'd probably surprise them to know that Jews talk about demons in a magical/mystical context. I like listening to rabbis but they almost always shy away from or deny such literature, not that that surprises me. I guess if you've never had to confront something it's natural to avoid it

As to the OP, I don't get what's being conveyed. I'm not ignorant or brainwashed, so why should I believe that I'm some religious figure? That sounds a bit irrational to me. Maybe my ego won't let me see that my heart is corrupt

 

[birdup.snaildown]

As to the OP, I don't get what's being conveyed.

If everyone is the same height, nobody is tall.
If everyone is a God, then nobody is.

Without contrast, everything is rendered meaningless.

Perhaps the OP doesn't mean that we are literally Gods, but rather that we have a God-like power over our own existence and we can create our own path?

It think it is a metaphor that people use to empower themselves.

I know a lot of hippy girls that use the word Goddess to refer to women. They don't literally think they are Gods, but (I think) it is a helpful tool for some.

If God exists, maybe we're all infinitely tiny fractions of God, but I don't think we are Gods. To me, that doesn't make sense. It's like saying a grain of sand is a beach that stretches forever. Personally, I'm happy to be infinitely small; I'm happy to be a man.

 

[Foreigner]

If you sit around with anyone and brainstorm a list of God's supposed qualities, you get things like:
- all seeing
- all knowing
- infinite
- the creator of everything / the source of everything

Etc.

If this is true and we are in agreement, then the Devil is part of God... and nothing is separate. It's just an appearance of separateness. Even so-called evil... god is the one doing that too.

 

[Gormur]

That means it doesn't matter if a devil exists (it doesn't) since it's a psychological idea that manifests to scare people. It's not like seeing something that is evil by itself and actually hurts or kills people. If it did, we'd know its name

I guess what I'm saying is that it's hard to find truth in the OP. It's a lot of we must and confirmation talk. Maybe I'm looking into it too much

 

[Shrooms00087]

Instead of Free Will wouldn't this argument be better suited as "Forgiveness" and "Grace" as opposed to "Determinism is bad"? One could even argue that written in determinism is the ideal of forgiveness, grace, love, and virtue? If I had Free Will I would still choose the one that suits the situation which is a dynamic method that occurs over vasts periods of time.

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

I agree. From what I've read, the church invented the Devil to prosecute witches. That doesn't negate malevolent entities existing but lay people didn't pay attention to demonology till the concept of a devil arose. It'd probably surprise them to know that Jews talk about demons in a magical/mystical context. I like listening to rabbis but they almost always shy away from or deny such literature, not that that surprises me. I guess if you've never had to confront something it's natural to avoid it

As to the OP, I don't get what's being conveyed. I'm not ignorant or brainwashed, so why should I believe that I'm some religious figure? That sounds a bit irrational to me. Maybe my ego won't let me see that my heart is corrupt

The Christians and other religious groups made the devil into a separate being which is why they themselves are misunderstood about it and propose a very simplistic and unevolved concept of the devil to impose their control on the masses. That hardly has anything to do with what I am trying to explain.

You’re confusion has to do with your inability to recognize the minds of human beings as a collective unit that groups itself together subconsciously and carries out actions that we then perceive as terrible or evil such as war efforts by governments and institutions or viruses like covid as well as childhood trauma and severe mental illnesses. All the things that we perceive as evil or bad or terrible and what Christians would end up calling the devil.

Rather you see things in a more individualized and practical sort of way to where you perceive other people and the minds of other people separate from your own mind. You are not conscious of the underlying mental connection that you have with people in your personal lives and the connection you have to society as a whole. Consequently you are unaware of your true self and the extension of your true self that goes beyond the boundaries of your individual mind and body. Therefore you perceive what I’m saying to be irrational but in reality, because of this underlying subconscious connection, you are therefore the same person as the devil or the same person as god and therefore you create all the circumstances around you and all the events that happen in your life whether they are good or bad. And the bad ones we will call the devil and the good ones we will call God.

Demons and angels exist as well but they are still an extension of you through the process I just explained.

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

If everyone is the same height, nobody is tall.
If everyone is a God, then nobody is.

Without contrast, everything is rendered meaningless.

Perhaps the OP doesn't mean that we are literally Gods, but rather that we have a God-like power over our own existence and we can create our own path?

It think it is a metaphor that people use to empower themselves.

I know a lot of hippy girls that use the word Goddess to refer to women. They don't literally think they are Gods, but (I think) it is a helpful tool for some.

If God exists, maybe we're all infinitely tiny fractions of God, but I don't think we are Gods. To me, that doesn't make sense. It's like saying a grain of sand is a beach that stretches forever. Personally, I'm happy to be infinitely small; I'm happy to be a man.

I think there’s misunderstanding here. I never said we are separate individual Gods but rather we as individual people make up the whole of which is God which means I agree with the last thing you said.

Although I do not want my point to be misconstrued as a metaphor because what I am saying is something that I feel is very true but you can choose to believe it or not.

Empowerment comes from the spirit. No need to compare my thoughts to hippy girls so that you can feel more comfortable and secure about your own reality that you have created for yourself. Becoming empowered is something that will benefit everyone men and women and help us overcome our adversity more so than religion, therapy, or antidepressants. If people focused more on elevating their consciousness and empowering their being rather than submitting to institutions and organizations and skeptical/worldly thinking then maybe our world wouldn’t be in the state that it’s in right now.

Maybe we already could have found a cure for cancer and find out what dark matter and dark energy is. People don’t know that it is their own skepticism and own fear of thinking outside the box and own fear of being illogical and own fear of saying things that go against the social consensus/established model which holds them back from figuring out solutions and possibilities as fast as they could be.

You are actually limiting your mind rather than expanding it.

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

If you sit around with anyone and brainstorm a list of God's supposed qualities, you get things like:
- all seeing
- all knowing
- infinite
- the creator of everything / the source of everything

Etc.

If this is true and we are in agreement, then the Devil is part of God... and nothing is separate. It's just an appearance of separateness. Even so-called evil... god is the one doing that too.

That is another important concept that the general public and religions don’t understand.

 

[Gormur]

You’re confusion has to do with your inability to recognize the minds of human beings as a collective unit that groups itself together subconsciously and carries out actions that we then perceive as terrible or evil such as war efforts by governments and institutions or viruses like covid as well as childhood trauma and severe mental illnesses. All the things that we perceive as evil or bad or terrible and what Christians would end up calling the devil.

Rather you see things in a more individualized and practical sort of way to where you perceive other people and the minds of other people separate from your own mind. You are not conscious of the underlying mental connection that you have with people in your personal lives and the connection you have to society as a whole. Consequently you are unaware of your true self and the extension of your true self that goes beyond the boundaries of your individual mind and body. Therefore you perceive what I’m saying to be irrational but in reality, because of this underlying subconscious connection, you are therefore the same person as the devil or the same person as god and therefore you create all the circumstances around you and all the events that happen in your life whether they are good or bad. And the bad ones we will call the devil and the good ones we will call God.

Demons and angels exist as well but they are still an extension of you through the process I just explained.

I agree with everything except being connected to others or society. I think it's possible to be connected to these things without being them. Divine and fallen angels exist on their own. They do their own thing, actually. Maybe my language is too literal for this discussion, but I'll accept that. Thank you for your answer

 

[birdup.snaildown]

No need to compare my thoughts to hippy girls so that you can feel more comfortable and secure about your own reality that you have created for yourself.

Nothing wrong with hippy girls. I didn't mean any offense to you. Not insecure. You misread me.

You are actually limiting your mind rather than expanding it.

I don't think so, but you could be right. I'm not saying there isn't merit to empowerment. Clearly there is. Being empowered is a good thing. I also think your posts have a lot of merit. I don't entirely disagree with you. Apologies if that's how it came across. I was just trying to clarify your position.

There are quite a few people on this forum (including yourself) that say things like we are God. You've made at least two threads in P&S about how we are God.

You are God, you are the devil, you are Jesus Christ, you are Buddha, you are the universe.

I never said we are separate individual Gods

I am a God, Youre a God

I'm still not entirely sure what you're saying?

If God is everything, then obviously we are part of everything. But I don't believe I literally am "a God" or that women that refer to themselves as Goddesses are literally Goddesses. I also don't think I am Jesus or Buddha or the universe. I agree that everything is connecting and that I'm part of the universe, but I am who I am.

You are actually limiting your mind rather than expanding it.

Do you mean me?
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion?

Maybe we already could have found a cure for cancer and find out what dark matter and dark energy is.

Maybe.

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

Nothing wrong with hippy girls. I didn't mean any offense to you. Not insecure. You misread me.



I don't think so, but you could be right. I'm not saying there isn't merit to empowerment. Clearly there is. Being empowered is a good thing. I also think your posts have a lot of merit. I don't entirely disagree with you. Apologies if that's how it came across. I was just trying to clarify your position.

There are quite a few people on this forum (including yourself) that say things like we are God. You've made at least two threads in P&S about how we are God.







I'm still not entirely sure what you're saying?

If God is everything, then obviously we are part of everything. But I don't believe I literally am "a God" or that women that refer to themselves as Goddesses are literally Goddesses. I also don't think I am Jesus or Buddha or the universe. I agree that everything is connecting and that I'm part of the universe, but I am who I am.



Do you mean me?
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion?



Maybe.

It’s a contradiction to say that you are connected to something and then say you are not that thing. It’s one in the same thing. You are just not aware of that aspect of you because we have been trained by society to just focus on our individual perspective and our bodies and egos. As a result you treat the word “connection” as some kind of vague metaphor but the truth is that the concept of “connection” runs deeper than you think. If we thought of ourselves as other people then we can’t hurt or cause harm to anybody because then we would be causing harm to ourselves. Then there would be no suffering in world.

But don’t think of a separate god when I say these things. I mean you can if you want to but that will just cause more confusion and reinforce your individuality and separateness.

I may have misspoke on the title but I was really trying to make you aware that you are a divine being and not just a normal human being and we have to wake up to that if we want to have lives with genuine happiness and a society that is not plagued with depression, anxiety and psychotic illness.

Science has exhausted their methods and people are becoming sicker at a faster rate than scientists and psychologists are able to figure out things. That’s one of the reasons why i say you are limiting yourself if you just rely on science and empirical proof. Not you specifically but anybody who leans more towards the secular/agnostic side and feels that they need evidence for literally everything. That prolongs the process of discovery and disables our ability for thinking of different possibilities that can lay outside the current existing models and rigid frameworks and attitudes.

 

[Shrooms00087]

If God is everything, then obviously we are part of everything. But I don't believe I literally am "a God" or that women that refer to themselves as Goddesses are literally Goddesses. I also don't think I am Jesus or Buddha or the universe. I agree that everything is connecting and that I'm part of the universe, but I am who I am.

You read into everything, bitting the universe, there is a good quote from the bible that says, "I am that I am". Similar to what you said but we create our own perceptions of reality and of ourselves which is where you get religions often stating "Aren't you too all Gods" as Jesus once said.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

It’s a contradiction to say that you are connected to something and then say you are not that thing.

I don't think it is. A grain of sand is not a beach.

Science has exhausted their methods and people are becoming sicker at a faster rate than scientists and psychologists are able to figure out things.

The scientific method isn't exhausted. This is mainly where I disagree with you. Cancer is caused my us living unnatural lives, but people continue to live unnatural lives and consume the wrong things constantly (including drugs). Science is the cause and (potentially) the cure for cancer. I don't see any other fields making progress towards developing antivirals or vaccines. I agree that there science is overrated and we would be better off if we didn't stare into phones and computers all the time, but that's not going to happen. We need science to fix problems we are creating, like climate change. I assume that you don't drive electric or run your house on solar? I'm looking at buying a second hand electric car at the moment, but I won't become carbon neutral for a long time.

As for whether or not people have more psychological problems than they used to, that's hard to say. I think it's become more socially acceptable to talk about our problems and there is more help available so they come to the surface more. I also think the discovery of climate change has had a massive impact on our collective psyche. We all know we are contributing to the destruction of this planet on a daily basis, but pretty much nobody I know does anything about it. We blame governments and big corporations but we don't do anything on a personal level. We keep buying products from non eco-friendly companies and we wait for the government to force us to do the right thing. Everyone feels guilty about the way we are living our lives. When my grandparents grew up, they didn't have to think about this all the time because they were oblivious.

Having said all that, I definitely think a spiritual and empowered approach to psychology is better than a scientific one. I don't believe in feeding people experimental pharmaceutical drugs to fix them any more than I believe in addicts treating their DOC as the solution to their problems. This is all a temporary fix. I also think some people focus too much on their problems via therapy. Dissecting everything that has ever gone wrong with you can re-enforce feelings of despair and create a victim complex. People these days blame everyone else for their problems. If you live in the western world, you probably have less to blame on society than pretty much anybody throughout history. Yet everyone is constantly up in arms. Just look at the Black Lives Matter movement. This is the opposite of empowerment.

I'm sure you're going to disagree with me here, but: left wing politics generally is the opposite of empowerment. The right says you are not entitled to other people's money. It encourages you to find your own path and build your own fortune. The left says (falsely) that there is a finite amount of money and it is being distributed incorrectly. People too often say they "can't" do things. There are too many excuses. We are taught that we deserve an endless amount of support and encouragement. This too has a negative impact on us psychologically. We are producing generation after generation of spoiled children. At some point, the baby bird needs to leave the nest.

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

I don't think it is. A grain of sand is not a beach.



The scientific method isn't exhausted. This is mainly where I disagree with you. Cancer is caused my us living unnatural lives, but people continue to live unnatural lives and consume the wrong things constantly (including drugs). Science is the cause and (potentially) the cure for cancer. I don't see any other fields making progress towards developing antivirals or vaccines. I agree that there science is overrated and we would be better off if we didn't stare into phones and computers all the time, but that's not going to happen. We need science to fix problems we are creating, like climate change. I assume that you don't drive electric or run your house on solar? I'm looking at buying a second hand electric car at the moment, but I won't become carbon neutral for a long time.

As for whether or not people have more psychological problems than they used to, that's hard to say. I think it's become more socially acceptable to talk about our problems and there is more help available so they come to the surface more. I also think the discovery of climate change has had a massive impact on our collective psyche. We all know we are contributing to the destruction of this planet on a daily basis, but pretty much nobody I know does anything about it. We blame governments and big corporations but we don't do anything on a personal level. We keep buying products from non eco-friendly companies and we wait for the government to force us to do the right thing. Everyone feels guilty about the way we are living our lives. When my grandparents grew up, they didn't have to think about this all the time because they were oblivious.

Having said all that, I definitely think a spiritual and empowered approach to psychology is better than a scientific one. I don't believe in feeding people experimental pharmaceutical drugs to fix them any more than I believe in addicts treating their DOC as the solution to their problems. This is all a temporary fix. I also think some people focus too much on their problems via therapy. Dissecting everything that has ever gone wrong with you can re-enforce feelings of despair and create a victim complex. People these days blame everyone else for their problems. If you live in the western world, you probably have less to blame on society than pretty much anybody throughout history. Yet everyone is constantly up in arms. Just look at the Black Lives Matter movement. This is the opposite of empowerment.

I'm sure you're going to disagree with me here, but: left wing politics generally is the opposite of empowerment. The right says you are not entitled to other people's money. It encourages you to find your own path and build your own fortune. The left says (falsely) that there is a finite amount of money and it is being distributed incorrectly. People too often say they "can't" do things. There are too many excuses. We are taught that we deserve an endless amount of support and encouragement. This too has a negative impact on us psychologically. We are producing generation after generation of spoiled children. At some point, the baby bird needs to leave the nest.

That might be the physical cause for cancer but there’s a deeper aspect to it that most people aren’t aware of and that’s the aspect of collective consciousness manifesting unwanted experiences. We perpetuate cancer as a whole because of unresolved issues and traumas in our individual lives and those individual issues and traumas get mixed in with other people’s issues and traumas and then they form a collective bulk of trauma that subconsciously influences society as a whole.

It’s a combination of everyones problems that ends up pulling us downwards like heavy gravity on our souls or we feel like we have to walk around with heavy baggage until we don’t feel motivated or excited anymore and we just feel like doing the same thing over and over again and you end up getting caught in a cycle or a mind trap and we start manifesting these negative experiences for ourselves such as cancer. It’s determinism and resistance caused by trauma and negative thoughts and focus that makes us live unnatural and consume things that aren’t good for us and it’s spread across the whole plane of civilization and that’s why it’s so hard for people to get off drugs because they are trying to heal from their traumas and that’s why there are so many people with mental illness because they suppress their trauma until it boils up until they short circuit and that’s why we perpetuate cancer and manifest more illness because our thoughts and focus are fixated on the external physical world and waiting for science to progress and wait for vaccines and stuff. People put their faith on those types of things instead putting their faith into something that can potentially bring magic into their lives and putting their faith into the Devine and the effect it can have on realizing the powers of your own mind and realizing the influence you have on your own reality and circumstances and overcoming your trauma and emotional issues.

These will be the things that takes us out of the hole we are in as a society. Because once we realize our power and how strong our mental influence is on the physical world then that’s when we can make a difference as ordinary people to turn things around and really think of new and better ways to handle these social situations rather than reserving yourself for other people who are saying that they are smarter than you and that it’s unwise to go about it any other way than how they present things to you.

Once we realize how deeply connected we all are to eachother in a very real sense then we would just naturally want to extend ourselves individually to help realign ourselves with a way of living that doesn’t have to deal with sickness. But my point is that the answer is within. Not external. Not vaccines or antiviruses.. not saying that we shouldn’t take them if it comes to that point but we have to acknowledge the other side of it and consider the possibility that we can heal ourselves naturally and a lot more faster and healthier by cultivating the abilities of the mind, familiarizing ourselves with the concept of oneness and connection with the collective and also working out your inner traumas and resistance patterns. That is the real cure. And I would say is the only cure that provides true healing and long lasting effective results.

Any physical/scientific solutions are just short term solutions like what you said about pharmaceutical drugs which I agree with. But that doesn’t just go for pharmaceuticals that goes for any scientific endeavor that tries to provide solutions for physical and mental health. All they are doing is postponing our illness and not dealing with the underlying emotional trauma that’s causing the illness and constantly trying to find ways to avoid it and pretend like cancer and other forms of illness are just a random fault of nature and chemicals. They just try to find ways to make it seem like somethings gonna go away until we are faced with a bigger threat later on.

Politics is not necessary. That is just people arguing and choosing sides and trying to gain power over one another and reinforcing separation and lack of oneness and lack of compassion and understanding. Science is not necessary. We can figure out all the things that science has to offer and more. Just by using our minds. In the future there will be no science or politics or psychiatrists. The spiritual world and the scientific world will merge into one and propel faster than it is doing right now where it takes years and years to discover mundane things. We will be able to observe more areas of the universe than we can with our computers and fancy machines. We think computers and advanced technological devices are the future but yet they have so many annoying features and defaults and disturbances and they break down and depend on physical maintenance and sometimes do not work properly. But the ability to try and build up your mind and try to cultivate certain powers that have been laying dormant within us since the Egyptian days, those abilities are everlasting and eternal and have the power to completely turn the existing structure upside down on its head once it gains enough momentum.

The scientific consciousness continually tries to suppress it and beat it down so that it doesnt gain enough confidence to realize it’s potential and oppressive situation so as to overthrow these established institutional structures that have risen to power but the time is coming soon when that will happen. And I know I just sound like another paranoid apocalyptic tin-foiled nutbag but what they say in certain religions and mysticisms is true. The energies will come back to haunt us and it will express itself through race relations and mental and physical illnesses and war and conflict. And then we will hit a reset button that sets everything back into place. The ancient people’s knew more than we thought and the arrogance of the modern scientific world tries to make it seem like they were just dim witted animals. But they understood oneness and their connection to the greater universe and the connection of their minds.

They were more psychically and emotionally in tune with eachother and in tune with their environment and as a result they were able to create these bizarre monuments and figure out astronomical patterns and information without the use of technological devices. Imagine what we can achieve if we tried to tap into those abilities while being in the technological age.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

I think you are perhaps focusing too much on alternatives to science in the same way that people focus too much on science. I think there needs to be a balance, rather than saying it is black and white and we need one or the other.

At the end of the day, you are typing on a computer. What efforts have you made to stop using fossil fuels? Do you have solar panels on the roof of your house? If you don't have solar panels, do you at least drive an electric car?

I know a lot of people who insist we don't need science, but they continue to consume mass-produced products like the rest of us... and they use mobile phones and computers...

Life without science is not something I want. Solar panels and electric cars come from science. Like I said, the solution to scientific problems is scientific. Unless you want to live like an Amish person. Hand washing clothes is hard. Churning butter and grinding grain sucks. Honestly I've never done any of these things, but I'm pretty sure that sort of lifestyle is not for me. Have you tried to live without science?

Over the past couple of years, I've gotten into growing my own fruits and vegetables which I find quite rewarding... but even that requires science to do properly. Science isn't all modern technology. Over tens of thousands of years, through trial and error, we worked out how to cultivate food. This is science. I suspect you are talking about modern science when you say science?

The modern world is good and bad. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water... Speaking of babies, I don't know many people who chose to bypass medical science when it comes to birth. I have one friend who had her second child in her house with no medical staff present. She is what I would call a hardcore hippy. Her decisions to "go natural" stressed out everyone in her family, but at the end of the day her baby is safe. She does, however, feed her family a strict vegan only diet. Science can prove that this sort of diet can be problematic, but (like you) she doesn't subscribe to science so she makes no effort to ensure that her family consumes adequate levels of B12 and omega-3 fatty acids.

People put their faith on those types of things instead putting their faith into something that can potentially bring magic into their lives

You agree there should be a balance. Right?

not saying that we shouldn’t take them if it comes to that point

There are so many situations that require science. It seems like what you're saying is you would receive chemotherapy to treat cancer and that you will continue to live an unnatural life and consume the wrong things that might contribute to cancer. Val Kilmer (an actor) recently beat throat cancer caused by smoking tobacco. Initially he said he wanted to beat it naturally. His family convinced him to do radiation therapy and have surgery. He is now cancer free, but he doesn't attribute his success in that department to medical science. Instead, he believes that he beat it with prayer. This (I think) is a dangerous thing to promote. I'm not saying you are promoting it. It sounds like if you did the same thing you would assume that science helped you more than prayer?

Science is not necessary.

You are being inconsistent with broad statements like this. If science is not necessary, why not stop using it?

...

There are two other things I'd like to respond to. I'll start with "the ancients".

There have definitely been enlightened periods of history and I wouldn't describe the modern western world as particularly enlightened when it comes to spirituality. It is sad that people hate God and religion so much... but, widespread religion didn't always exist and primitive life wasn't all the great. Ignoring illuminated periods like Ancient Greece, most of history has been a nightmare. I don't think people were ignorant, but life was hard without science. Just look at historical infanticide rates. It wasn't uncommon for 50% of children to be killed upon birth because their lives couldn't be sustained. There were different methods for this. In the Inuit world, they would stuff infants mouths with leaves (so they couldn't hear them scream) and leave them to freeze to death in the tundra. Sometimes they would throw them into the ocean.

They were more psychically and emotionally in tune with eachother and in tune with their environment and as a result they were able to create these phenomenal monuments and figure out astronomical patterns and information without the use of technological devices.

I don't know who "they" are? You mentioned Egypt which was one of the most technologically advanced civilizations in history.

You're being very selective, I think... and what you're describing (with astronomical patterns) is science isn't it?

The energies will come back to haunt you and it will express itself through race relations and mental and physical illnesses and war and conflict

Race relations have improved in the modern world. Slavery was commonplace throughout most of history.

War has also improved, hasn't it?

The ancient people’s knew more than we thought and the arrogance of the modern scientific world tries to make it seem like they were just dim witted animals.

There is some truth to this. There is some truth to most of what you've said throughout this thread. But I think you might underestimate how much the modern world knows in the same way that people underestimate how much the ancients knew.

I would never suggest that "they" were dim-witted animals, but I'd much rather live in this century than any other century.

People have a tendency to romanticize ancient/primitive cultures. Native American culture (for example) is spiritual but it wasn't peaceful. I'd much rather live a modern Western existence than live in a Native American tribe pre-colonization, especially if I happened to be a woman or a homosexual.

...

Finally, politics.

Politics is not necessary. That is just people arguing and choosing sides and trying to gain power over one another and reinforcing separation and lack of oneness and lack of compassion and understanding.

Again, very broad statements. In order for politics to not be necessary, we'd either have to scrap the idea of government or we'd all have to agree with each other. Without science and politics, the western world wouldn't be able to intervene charitably in other countries. Since boats and planes are created through science, we wouldn't be aware of the suffering in Africa or human rights violations in Syria. The only solution to mass starvation and overpopulation is science. This unavoidably involves politics.

I'd just like to point out again that I agree with many of the things you've said. I am making efforts to get myself off the grid and produce my own food. I'm also planning to move out to the country in the next couple of years and live a simpler life that is less focused on technology. We spend too much time on the internet. We spend too much time looking at screens. But I don't want to detach completely.

It's all about finding the right balance.

 

[Gormur]

You read into everything, bitting the universe, there is a good quote from the bible that says, "I am that I am". Similar to what you said but we create our own perceptions of reality and of ourselves which is where you get religions often stating "Aren't you too all Gods" as Jesus once said.

I am, am is like I exist therefore I am. At least that's my take on it

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

I don't see it as a question of religion, mind you that I haven't read anything about this, so I could be way off, but follow me here for a second.

Let's suppose the big bang was the first meaningful event, and that the universe is deterministic, then it would be so that every timestep is the result of some sort of extremely complex function of a previous timestep. This can only be the case if the result of every identical input gives identical results, but if there are true chance variables in that equation (randomness), that wouldn't necessarily be the case. So when extending that logic, the universe would be deterministic when no true randomness would exist, and this would all go back to the big bang most likely and how that came to happen. Given that we suppose that all life is just configurations of molecules out of which intelligence arises, then we are also part of that huge function, and it would again all boil down to the existence of true randomness, which if it were there, would indicate that there could be free will, or at least that the universe is not deterministic.

From what I understand of quantum physics (nothing lol) true randomness is fairly likely to exist, and it would manifest itself everywhere, including in the way we think.
Ultimately it doesn't matter really, and it's all about perception...