The Dark Trip

[Flickering]

A dark trip is not the same as a bad trip. Having had a couple of bad trips, I can say they're things you should always go well out of your way to avoid. But the idea of the 'dark trip' occurred to me yesterday while on san pedro. Here's what happened.

I was sitting in my car and this song was playing on the stereo. At the time, I was flipping through a book of really amazing photos of people in various acts and expressions of love. To this point, I'd seen the multi-faceted elements of the human psyche written in a simple human smile: fear, longing, exhaustion, peace etc. all at once. It was quite incredible and felt very authentic, like I wasn't just tripping, I was actually able to discern these subtlest feelings just from a photograph. But when that song started playing, the pictures took on a quite eery, nightmarish quality. They became ghostlike, alien, and warped. There was a sense of deep spiritual danger and wrongness to them. I was fascinated... I kept looking, even though it was very creepy, and went deeper and deeper into the primordial mindset the song conveys.

Later, I was walking through the woods when I came to a dark little path leading down to a swamp. I headed down that path, surrounded by the distinct mood and sense of danger. I thought, wouldn't it be great if I had an iPod, and I could play Dead Can Dance while tripping through here? I wonder what deep recesses of the human psyche I'd unveil? At the swamp, I turned back, because I'd been there earlier in the trip and ended up covered in massive leeches - NOT a good thing to happen on an eighteen-hour mescaline trip.

This was a powerful trip, and I learnt a lot and went through many strange and atmospheric states of mind. This one intruiges me. I wonder, has anyone deliberately put themselves in an environment to explore this sort of 'dark side' of the trip? It sounds like a dangerous thing to do, because you could easily be overwhelmed with fear. Personally, I think I could handle it, as long as I do it with a friend, and on a gentle substance like mescaline. The bad trips I've had were less about fear, more about nihilism and despair.

Ayahuasca sounds like it's precisely this anyway, only without needing to arrange your environment particularly.

Any experiences, thoughts?

Tangentially, I also recommend using those spinning things they have at playgrounds while tripping. Not merry-go-rounds - they're tall thin plastic things with a platform you stand on, and you kick off the ground, lean back and hold to the curvy centre pole. I did this at night, obviously - got on the curvy mechanism, kicked off, and held on for dear life against the G-forces. It felt like how I imagine being launched into DMT space would feel.

 

[AlyDrops]

I do this all the time, it's my favorite way to trip. Letting your mind sink into the dark and perverse allows for some insanely trippy abstract imagery and OBEs. Acid is the best for it IMO.

 

[MindExpansion]

I fucking love those platform things! They're a ride while sober, I can imagine any drug would make them super fun!

That trip sounds very eery though interesting. Overall did you enjoy it?

 

[TangerinO]

Yeah I agree with AlyDrops, acid is great for achieving this. I have always felt like the acid trip is the perfect balance between beauty and evil. It's like I'm always amazed at the higher level of thinking able to be achieved on acid and the sometimes beautiful visuals, but I love that creepy, something just ain't right feeling about it as well. Things become warped and creepy when they wouldn't be otherwise, and I love that comfort in the more ominous aspect to the drug. In fact I think the mix of positive and negative spectrums you get with acid is why it's always the most interesting and enjoyable drug for me.

 

[Flickering]

The eery parts were short; the rest of the trip was quite different. Another thing I did was look at that song was look at Alex Grey's artwork for the Tool booklet for Lateralus. I realised so much about how humans are at once fascinated and repulsed by their own organic nature. Our brains are kind of like worms sitting in our heads. Our hearts - imagine opening your chest and finding a hideous foetal creautre nestled there, writhing and gurgling. That's the stuff we're made of, if that makes sense - things that horrify us. I found this thought really compelling.

Did I enjoy it? Yes, it was the best trip I've ever had. San pedro is absolutely incredible. Absolutely. Incredible.

Acid is the best for it IMO.

Wow really? I don't think I'm brave enough to try it on acid. It seems too easy for the wrong thing to unbalance the trip. Do you have a lot of experience with acid?

 

[EndlessSummer]

Salvia has given me lots of dark trips but not in the good way, so perhaps it's a bad trip?

There's dark and spiritual, something to learn from and which imparts fear or some greater meaning to the individual.

Then there's dark and empty, something which imparts a feeling of meaninglessness, chemical-induced corporeality, and filthy nostalgia.

Salvia is the latter for me. Trust me, it sounds a lot better than it is.

 

[AlyDrops]

Yeah I agree with AlyDrops, acid is great for achieving this. I have always felt like the acid trip is the perfect balance between beauty and evil. It's like I'm always amazed at the higher level of thinking able to be achieved on acid and the sometimes beautiful visuals, but I love that creepy, something just ain't right feeling about it as well. Things become warped and creepy when they wouldn't be otherwise, and I love that comfort in the more ominous aspect to the drug. In fact I think the mix of positive and negative spectrums you get with acid is why it's always the most interesting and enjoyable drug for me.

^^^

Wow really? I don't think I'm brave enough to try it on acid. It seems too easy for the wrong thing to unbalance the trip. Do you have a lot of experience with acid?

I do, and I've never had a bad trip with it even at extremely high doses, and I always use it for this purpose. However, these "dark trips" were not something I happened to come across and think about exploring like in your san pedro trip, it was exactly what I wanted out of psychedelics from the very start. So obviously, your mileage may vary. Personally I think as long as you can keep your head straight normally you should be able to navigate this space without too many problems, unless you know something specifically that has a high chance of setting you off that you think may show up. I think the best part about acid though (at least in my experience) is that it's very dissociating in a psychosis-like way, especially at high doses. If you can handle that mindset then you should be able to take just about anything that's thrown at you, it's very easy to become emotionally disconnected and just go with the flow if you don't give in to the fear.

Just to put things into a little more perspective: I enjoy deliriants. You may want to consider that as well when listening to my advice.

 

[morbiddoctor]

What book with the faces of expression were You looking at?

 

[Flickering]

^^ It's simply called 'Love'. I highly recommend it for a trip. I didn't take it along intentionally, but it was there in my car, and I spent ages looking through it. It was very moving. If you decide to buy it, the photo I was looking at was of a woman kissing a child, who I think had leukemia, on the cheek. I was focusing on the woman, who became ghostly and otherworldly before my eyes.

Another somewhat eery part of the trip was walking through a neighbourhood at dusk, in light of a full moon. It wasn't the safest thing to do, being a fairly high-crime area. But it felt worth it. Later, at night, to avoid a man walking his dog (dogs can often tell you're tripping and they don't like it) I went into the woods with a torch. The shadows were extremely clearly defined.

Then there's dark and empty, something which imparts a feeling of meaninglessness, chemical-induced corporeality, and filthy nostalgia.

Salvia is the latter for me. Trust me, it sounds a lot better than it is.

I don't really get the 'filthy nostalgia', but everything else sounds like my bad DXM trip, in which case yes, it sure sounds better than it really was. Like you say, there's that, and there's dark and spiritual, which is more what I'm looking at. (I also realised that Aztec culture was all about exploring this organic and in a sense evil side of things. They pulled it off like no other culture on Earth.)

I do, and I've never had a bad trip with it even at extremely high doses, and I always use it for this purpose. However, these "dark trips" were not something I happened to come across and think about exploring like in your san pedro trip, it was exactly what I wanted out of psychedelics from the very start.

That's interesting, can I ask why?

If you can handle that mindset then you should be able to take just about anything that's thrown at you, it's very easy to become emotionally disconnected and just go with the flow if you don't give in to the fear.

Yeah, sounds like it could be easily managed with experience, but I'm not planning on doing acid very often. I'll explore this darker realm of things on my next san pedro trip, which also feels more organic and primal than LSD to me. Ayuhuasca also sounds good for it, but not in a fun way so much.

Just to put things into a little more perspective: I enjoy deliriants. You may want to consider that as well when listening to my advice.

Aah one of those. Well I admire your bravery, I'd never have it in me to even think of stuffing datura in my mouth. Though if you wanted the full experience of the dark trip, there's nothing better, is there.

 

[any major dude]

I've also enjoyed the "dark" side of psychedelics. Most can take you there if that's where you want to go, LSD & 2c-e seem the most adept at getting me there in a manageable state of mind. Mushrooms i've found to be among the darkest of psyches, but i get extremely confused and have horrible social anxiety on them so i don't do them too often any more. 4-AcO-DMT is similar but a bit more manageable, probably because of the precision one can have with dossing synthetics vs plant matter. I've also had pretty good success achieving the dark by adding lowish doses of dissociatives to various tryptamines, specifically 4-HO-MET & 4-AcO-DMT. 4-HO-MET i've always regarded as pretty light, "party stuff" even, but with a bit of MXE it became a different beast entirely. Not at all unmanageable or out of control, moreso hilarious in a very dark sense of humor.

 

[AlyDrops]

That's interesting, can I ask why?

I suppose the simplest way I can answer this is that I was at a dark place in my life, and I can elaborate using the same logic you've applied to defining these trips. It was an undoubtedly somewhat psychotic time in my life, as it was a "dark" place but in no way did I perceive it as a "bad" place, and so I was not prone to bad trips. I just kind of thought of myself as a bad person, not someone who felt wronged and rejected the world because of it (however, this is what I was), just the person who is bad and loves it. Really, I was hiding from my problems, but I managed to get by without acknowledging them for quite some time. Then I started abusing high doses of both psychedelics and deliriants, sometimes (rarely) mixed together. This is something you DO NOT want to do. I started developing extreme anxiety issues (of physical origin, like a hypochondriac) and in the meantime it was making my trips forcibly teach me something. That is to say, they were still "good trips", technically, but the lingering anxiety from all my abuse was constantly present and forced me to think about things differently because no matter how good the content of the hallucinations were, I still felt like I was about to have a heart attack or stroke at any moment. It wasn't anxiety from approaching ego death or anything like that, just my mental handicap being pulled out of me. Eventually I faced the facts and I'm now making an effort to fix my life, and am currently abstaining from all psychoactives, including caffeine, but excluding Xanax which I'm prescribed for anxiety to take as needed (only needed it once so far). I actually haven't taken acid since things started getting bad, so although what I've said is true up to now, when I do eventually go back I may not use it for that purpose anymore, although those trips do still interest me (like I said, it is my favorite way to trip, and even if it wasn't the healthiest mindset it is the way I grew up thinking about stuff). With the help of a wonderful friend (who has saved my life more than once) I've come to see the world in a much brighter view so I may just have to explore other states of mind as well. Of course, I'm also on the fence about whether to even go back at all, at least until much later in my life. Part of me wants to just stick to weed once I've gotten over all of this (right now I can't even take a hit without thinking I'm about to have a seizure)... I guess we'll see.

Also, you may have noticed I never explained how I was "wronged". Well, regularly I'm quite a rambler and try my best not to leave out any details, but this is one I'm not going to be filling in, so I'm sorry if you were wondering. It's a little too personal.

Yeah, sounds like it could be easily managed with experience, but I'm not planning on doing acid very often. I'll explore this darker realm of things on my next san pedro trip, which also feels more organic and primal than LSD to me. Ayuhuasca also sounds good for it, but not in a fun way so much.

Well I wish you the best of luck, I've never had the good fortune to try mescaline but from what I hear at high doses the similarities between it and acid become more and more apparent, so I wouldn't be surprised if it could be used just as well!

Aah one of those. Well I admire your bravery, I'd never have it in me to even think of stuffing datura in my mouth. Though if you wanted the full experience of the dark trip, there's nothing better, is there.

There really isn't, deliriants are.... mind-blowing. I wish I could do them every day, but they're just so unbelievably self-destructive, I've vowed to never touch them again.

 

[Flickering]

Mushrooms i've found to be among the darkest of psyches, but i get extremely confused and have horrible social anxiety on them so i don't do them too often any more. 4-AcO-DMT is similar but a bit more manageable, probably because of the precision one can have with dossing synthetics vs plant matter. I've also had pretty good success achieving the dark by adding lowish doses of dissociatives to various tryptamines, specifically 4-HO-MET & 4-AcO-DMT.

I personally wouldn't try it on shrooms until I had a much better grip on them, and even then, they can be confusing, unpredictable little fuckers and you can get blindsided. 4-AcO-DMT sounds like a safer version for exploring the dark, but I have yet to have the pleasure of its company. Dissociatives generally do have an otherworldly, gloomy feel to them, so I can definitely see that working in low doses in combination. Wouldn't want to go robo-walking through a grove at night, though.

I suppose the simplest way I can answer this is that I was at a dark place in my life, and I can elaborate using the same logic you've applied to defining these trips. It was an undoubtedly somewhat psychotic time in my life, as it was a "dark" place but in no way did I perceive it as a "bad" place, and so I was not prone to bad trips. I just kind of thought of myself as a bad person, not someone who felt wronged and rejected the world because of it (however, this is what I was), just the person who is bad and loves it.

Thanks for sharing. I can actually relate to all of that. I've gone in and out of seeing myself as a complete twisted sociopath before, a kind of unloveable monster who gets what he deserves. In my case, it's my incapacity to love or to sympathise with people, and the way I subtly manipulate people to get what I need, even my own family. But psychedelics have helped me see the good side of things too, that there is some empathy, and honour, and even love, buried though the last of those may be. The miserable self-image turned out to result from frustration at being unable to live in truth and harmony with people, for various reasons I also won't go into; in fact, I realised, I usually go well out of my way to avoid hurting people. It's a terrible state of mind to be in, not seeing those things.

It's quite cool that your reaction to all this was to want to explore it. Most people run away from it. I took a different approach again. I started psychedelics with three goals in mind (and they all tie in with each other).

1. I wanted to re-experience a childhood memory so I could remember how it felt to feel at home in life, and then use that knowledge to overcome my severe dissociation with the world and finally move on, doing great things I know I'm capable of instead of constantly wasting my potential.
2. I wanted to understand more about these mystical, tantalising and unique feelings I get with every moment in my life. I want to understand what this Theme means and to have a full experience of it, instead of leaving it in the background. One other Bluelight member was able to relate (whereas almost everyone I've ever talked to doesn't get it) and said his best and deepest experience of it happened on a shrooms + ketamine combo.
3. I want answers to existential questions. Life after death, consciousness, purpose. I don't expect psychedelics to give them to me; I hope for new information and ways of thinking that will help me figure things out.

By the way, I've been wronged too, in several ugly ways, and I can appreciate not wanting to share that. A few years ago, a man I trusted more than my own father and looked up to as a spiritual beacon turned out to be a charlatan cult leader who'd only ever cared about my money. And then there's childhood. :/ But it seems like everyone goes through something traumatic there.

Well I wish you the best of luck, I've never had the good fortune to try mescaline but from what I hear at high doses the similarities between it and acid become more and more apparent, so I wouldn't be surprised if it could be used just as well!

Strongly recommend it. Powerful, powerful experience, and perfect for a primal mindset. My first dose was low and very different from acid, but my second was around 300 - 350mg, and I could definitely see the resemblence.

There really isn't, deliriants are.... mind-blowing. I wish I could do them every day, but they're just so unbelievably self-destructive, I've vowed to never touch them again.

That sounds wise. I wouldn't ever touch them, but my goals are different - the dark side of the psyche is more of a passing interest that coincides with objective number 3. Perfect for a seriously dedicated psychonaut who really wants to go into it deep, though, by the sounds of it.

 

[AlyDrops]

Thanks for sharing. I can actually relate to all of that. I've gone in and out of seeing myself as a complete twisted sociopath before, a kind of unloveable monster who gets what he deserves. In my case, it's my incapacity to love or to sympathise with people, and the way I subtly manipulate people to get what I need, even my own family. But psychedelics have helped me see the good side of things too, that there is some empathy, and honour, and even love, buried though the last of those may be. The miserable self-image turned out to result from frustration at being unable to live in truth and harmony with people, for various reasons I also won't go into; in fact, I realised, I usually go well out of my way to avoid hurting people. It's a terrible state of mind to be in, not seeing those things.

This all rings very familiar for me. The main difference for me was that my friends influenced my change more than the psychedelics did, although the psychedelics did allow me to open up about a lot of things. I'm lucky to have friends as close as I do, I don't know what I would have done without them. I can especially relate to going out of my way to avoid hurting someone, although for a long time for some reason I wanted myself to believe that that wasn't the real me. It's wonderful to have such a positive view of the world now... things can get pretty messy in that state of mind.

It's quite cool that your reaction to all this was to want to explore it. Most people run away from it. I took a different approach again. I started psychedelics with three goals in mind (and they all tie in with each other).

1. I wanted to re-experience a childhood memory so I could remember how it felt to feel at home in life, and then use that knowledge to overcome my severe dissociation with the world and finally move on, doing great things I know I'm capable of instead of constantly wasting my potential.
2. I wanted to understand more about these mystical, tantalising and unique feelings I get with every moment in my life. I want to understand what this Theme means and to have a full experience of it, instead of leaving it in the background. One other Bluelight member was able to relate (whereas almost everyone I've ever talked to doesn't get it) and said his best and deepest experience of it happened on a shrooms + ketamine combo.
3. I want answers to existential questions. Life after death, consciousness, purpose. I don't expect psychedelics to give them to me; I hope for new information and ways of thinking that will help me figure things out.

I definitely know what you mean here, especially 2 and 3, however these are things that I had in mind after I already became acquainted with psychedelics. When I started using them I had done absolutely no research on them, I had no prior knowledge whatsoever. I had never heard of ego death, I didn't know there was such a thing as come-up anxiety, I didn't know they were used for spiritual or knowledge-seeking purposes, I didn't even have a vague description of what kind of visuals to expect. Literally, nothing. Needless to say, my first trip (shrooms) completely blew me away. I started using psychedelics because they were supposed to be crazy hallucinogens and I wanted to see the true potential of the human brain; I've since downgraded that from goal to bonus. I've had my fair share of intense experiences now and I think I'm done trying to reach for the stars.... I'm ready to become the psychonaut who only uses reasonable recreational doses for fun and introspection. That's why I'm on the fence about even going back, in any case I'll probably hold off for at least a few years after I can finally use weed again, which will probably be one of the happiest days of my life. I was only smoking for about two months before I was introduced to other drugs (first rolling, then psychedelics a week later, then ketamine and coke a week after that, and pretty much on like that) and I'd really love to have a lot more quality time with good old MJ. Despite everything, I really am a stoner at heart. Hand me a bag of weed and nice bong or a pack of zigzags and I'm set. I'd really like to grow, too. I think even just having something to do like that would help keep me calm and relaxed.

By the way, I've been wronged too, in several ugly ways, and I can appreciate not wanting to share that. A few years ago, a man I trusted more than my own father and looked up to as a spiritual beacon turned out to be a charlatan cult leader who'd only ever cared about my money. And then there's childhood. :/ But it seems like everyone goes through something traumatic there.

I'm sorry to hear that, I haven't been through something like that but I can't imagine it's any fun. Yeah, there are some lucky ones, but I've come to accept that if you're here or any other drug forum then you've probably got a story to tell.

Strongly recommend it. Powerful, powerful experience, and perfect for a primal mindset. My first dose was low and very different from acid, but my second was around 300 - 350mg, and I could definitely see the resemblence.

If and when I return to the scene I will most definitely give it a run, it's been on my to-do list ever since the first time I tripped. I was never really in a position to go out and get cacti or anything but by the time I'm back in I'll be able to easily. Obviously I've heard nothing but good things about mescaline, it'll probably be what I use more than anything (except weed) since I don't really care to go looking for legit sources of acid again. I've had a pretty good amount of experiences with it, if it wants me to meet with it again it'll come to me.

That sounds wise. I wouldn't ever touch them, but my goals are different - the dark side of the psyche is more of a passing interest that coincides with objective number 3. Perfect for a seriously dedicated psychonaut who really wants to go into it deep, though, by the sounds of it.

I would certainly stay away from them. I think the main issue for me was the fact that I like hallucinating so much that they were actually addictive. At times they were my desperate escape, I would take them and completely forget about the world for a day or two. The worst part about it was every single time I took them I knew I was slowly damaging myself more but I was just too drawn to them to stop. Thank god those days are done. If I'd known what I know now, though, I could have predicted it. My dad was the exact same way. He was an original hippie through the '60s and '70s and for a good amount of time would stay up for 3-4 days on speed for the purpose of taking a large dose of acid and eating hash cupcakes or whatever as soon as he started hallucinating from it. From what I hear (and from what I would easily assume), it gets pretty intense. I wouldn't ever risk doing it now though, I'm done with harmful drugs.

 

[Flickering]

This all rings very familiar for me. The main difference for me was that my friends influenced my change more than the psychedelics did, although the psychedelics did allow me to open up about a lot of things. I'm lucky to have friends as close as I do, I don't know what I would have done without them. I can especially relate to going out of my way to avoid hurting someone, although for a long time for some reason I wanted myself to believe that that wasn't the real me. It's wonderful to have such a positive view of the world now... things can get pretty messy in that state of mind.

Underline - it's strange, but I've even been there as well.

I actually had a lot of this nasty stuff resolved before I started taking psychedelics. But room remained to fall back into it. DXM, LSD, san pedro and even the bad mushroom trip all in their own way went, "Snap out of it. You've gone through enough to justify feeling disillusioned and confused. You're not a bad person. And look! - if you take away all these barriers in your mind, like this, you are in fact as capable as anyone of love and sympathy." Somtimes knowledge isn't enough, sometimes you need the experience.

That's why I'm on the fence about even going back, in any case I'll probably hold off for at least a few years after I can finally use weed again, which will probably be one of the happiest days of my life.

If I may, it sounds as though you will, but after a long break, which sounds like it will make it very refreshing and new to come back to substances. If you do, perhaps you should make the first trip mescaline; that way you're kicking off with a brand new style of experience, it'd be like the first time again.

I'm sorry to hear that, I haven't been through something like that but I can't imagine it's any fun.

It isn't. I've racked up a lot of hours fantasising about revenge, anywhere from public humiliation to jail time to flat out murdering the guy. None of which, incidentally, made me feel like a bad person.

Yeah, there are some lucky ones, but I've come to accept that if you're here or any other drug forum then you've probably got a story to tell.

Sadly, you're right, most everyone does. I suppose it's the subsequent alienation and disillusionment that drives a lot of people to drug use, hopefully to psychedelics instead of opiates. There are a lucky few, but I've come to realise how freakishly uncommon they are. The world is enormously messed up.

I would certainly stay away from them. I think the main issue for me was the fact that I like hallucinating so much that they were actually addictive. At times they were my desperate escape, I would take them and completely forget about the world for a day or two.

I wonder, though, how you'd actually wield deliriants to investigate the shadow? The key element is, of course, that you don't know what you're seeing isn't real. So wouldn't this make you forget your purpose in ingesting the stuff to begin with? I imagine it would only be useful in retrospect, like reflecting on a dream, or rather a nightmare. Whereas with mescaline, ketamine, ayahuasca, etc. there's the potential to guide the experience somewhat, and analyse it detached. Perhaps, compared to deliriants, this actually detracts from the experience, because it's never as full-blown.

 

[PhyllipThylamine]

I wonder, has anyone deliberately put themselves in an environment to explore this sort of 'dark side' of the trip? It sounds like a dangerous thing to do, because you could easily be overwhelmed with fear. Personally, I think I could handle it, as long as I do it with a friend, and on a gentle substance like mescaline. The bad trips I've had were less about fear, more about nihilism and despair.

Well..! I've actually lived through some pretty frightening real life sits so I'm also pretty comfortable "freaking myself out". I've explored Dark portions of trips many times, usually with a partner willing to play along, it would invariably involve a "lost in the dark forest" scenario. A mate, suddenly changing his persinality to homicidal aslo gets some of the folk freaked, though this one should be used only in strictly controlled circumstances. You dont want your gf running screeaming into the street!

Varying ones surroundings for different trips keeps things interesting, & surprising as this may sound, on a solid, stimmy psychedelic it IS possible to wander a crowded city centre, at 11am on a Sat & have a thoroughly dark trip! Lol "Right, fuck this we're going home... NOW!"

I've noticed how different the MDMA experience is at home rather than at a club. I think the "fight or flight" sense of dancing quickly in a loud, busy enviroment produces more neural activity & combined with MDMA creates a synergy that brings about an experience that differs from the MDMA-at-home experience.

Perhaps having a little freak-out during a trip causes a similar chemical change, seperate to that brought on by a drug, & maybe a wee fright exorcises phodia & lossens the ego for the rest of the trip?

 

[Sapphires]

I think that the dark trips or parts of a trip help to bring out the small pieces of perfection and harmony as a way to contrast and make a bigger impact. I know that during my most profound 2c-i trip it was nearly 12 straight hours of darkness and everything in life taking on horrifying and distorted personas, but the few moments where it all went a way for a second and showed me something beautiful it make it much more powerful. It's almost as if the universe is showing you how bad you could have it so you can appreciate everything a little bit more, even just your normal sober day.