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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Conspiracies The Covid Narrative

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@Foreigner I personally find it hard to believe that most doctors, medical staff, scientist, politicians, governments all around the world conspire successfully to withhold covid treatment options that work. how would such a global conspiracy effort even work?
 
Are you suggesting this whole thing is one giant reverse placebo thing ? I don’t know if that hold any water man …
I'm not questioning people getting ill and dying, that is self-evident. The main point is that through the use of testing we are attributing a definition, a label of "covid" to people. That's all it is. An act of definition. There are no clinically unique symptoms for this condition, the symptoms all overlap with multiple existing conditions which in themselves can have multiple causes. Through the use of propaganda and this statistical manipulation we are being presented with idea that there is a pandemic. Yet, the actual reality on the ground and from those working in funeral homes etc clearly points to nothing abnormal taking place. It's a pandemic only on TV.

People are getting ill and dying, as they always have. It's just now we label them as covid. It's no coincidence that Influenza rates dropped to near zero in 2020 worldwide, which people attribute to the measures put in place.. but that is absurd, because they've both (supposedly) highly contagious respiratory viruses. No, the statistics were shifted from one to the other. People still got ill at the same rate as they generally do every winter.

There's a reason why right from the very start it has all been about 'cases' (positive tests). Without this data point it becomes ridiculous to claim anything is going on at all. All you need to do is watch the BBC in the UK to see why.. literally every day they have these big scary colorful graphs highlighting case rates. You keep on repeating this lie over and over, and eventually people come to believe it. But not once have they actually bothered to examine or even question the legitimacy of the PCR testing methodology. It got touted as the 'gold standard', case closed.

We can't discount an element of psychosomatic illness in all of this too. The mind is ridiculously powerful. If you hypnotize people, especially through a state of fear, you can induce illness in people by lowering their resistance to it. People lower their guard and give in, expecting to get ill, and so they do at the first hint of malaise. This isn't to say we're creating illness out of nothing, more that these people were likely to get ill sooner rather than later owing to their health, and many will be pushed over into a state of illness. However, I think most people intuitively know that during times of great stress or trauma one can indeed become very ill or even develop life threatening conditions like cancer. There's a lot we don't fully understand about disease and health, in relation to the mind.

People don't always fall ill when they're around someone who has something. Sometimes their immune systems fight it off.

What do you believe is going on with sicknesses then? Do you believe in other forms of person-to-person transmission? STDs? I mean look, I can't personally prove it, I don't study viruses, I don't have the necessary tools to accomplish any sort of experiments, but neither can you personally disprove it. So we're both taking the word of someone else. I prefer to believe established medical science, which was built off of work from many people who made it their lives' work studying virology and transmission over the past 150 years, over something I heard from a guy on the Internet (by the way I think you're the first I've heard to suggest that not only is covid not real, but that the entire concept of viral spread through respiration is false). Said science has produced huge advances in reduction in transmission and lethality of diseases, as well as many vaccines that work extremely well. It's pretty clear they're onto something.

I think our biology is more complicated than we believe, and that it's also arrogant to believe that in a mere 150 years we've cracked it all. We were giving lobotomies to people less than 60 years ago and thought that was a great idea, so it's not like modern medicine has been doing well for a prolonged period of time. Virology in particular is highly questionable in terms of validity. Even a layman can understand why this is the case when you examine a few basic features of it: Viral particles are so small they can not be seen or examined in vivo (in an organism, live), unlike bacteria or fungi. They can only be seen under electron microscope, which is static imagery and also obviously the material has to be dead and prepared in a special way. So right off the bat you're dealing with static fuzzy imagery as your point of reference, it becomes impossible to do anything but make assumptions about what is actually taking place at that scale. The second point is that viral particles, again due to their size, have never been isolated directly from an organism in the entire history of virology. They are produced by infecting cell culture lines with a sample supposedly containing a virus. In the case of SARS-NCOV-2 the original isolation teams didn't even bother to purify the resulting isolate they produced! Freely admitted. So when they present images and statements about having isolated the virus they are flat out lying. It's fraud - you can't claim 'isolation' when you haven't got a purified sample. It is, like the 'cases' terminology, a deliberate abuse of language to obfuscate the truth. 'Isolation' in virology has no connection to the dictionary definition, and it varies to mean whatever the particular team want it to mean. It's a joke.

you probably will not accept this but fuck it i'll try.

firstly GISAID has at this point thousands of sars-cov2 sequences from around the world. we have sufficient resolution due to the huge sequencing efforts to plot the geographical spread of different lineages over time, which you can see here - if you want to drill down in more detail into specific variants, amino acid changes, genes, antibody escape etc you can do so on the UCSC COVID browser. furthermore there are many more resources available from the NCBI.

this is just data, not proof, but this has been submitted and collated by literally thousands of people all over the world. so if you don't believe in this virus, then you need to believe that every single person who has contributed to these projects has knowingly colluded in a global conspiracy. is this what you are claiming? can you explain how that would work please?

also its well known that some people infected with COVID are asymptomatic, so you can get transmission within households without realising it.

i know people who've lost loved ones, and many people who've been infected and had quite serious symptoms. but that's anecdotal, i'll go with the science. which overwhelmingly points to the existence of a viral infection that, having originated in wuhan, has now spread to every corner of the earth.

Asymptomatic transmission is the most blatant load of bullshit I've ever heard. I shouldn't even need to point that out. It's no different to an exceedingly poor rationalization produced by a religious cult leader to keep their flock on the leash. It's something you expect to hear on the Simpsons or South Park it's that ridiculous. Surely at some level you must recognize that it is awfully convenient for the narrative, yes? It's completely unproven and not provable. There is no empirical data, no studies where they have an "asymptomatic" infected person infecting someone else. All they will do is point to statistical analysis and make the claim, but that is not evidence of anything.

The sequences are not proof of anything either, not least because the original sequencing was done using computer software patching together arbitrary segments and not from mapping the genome directly, from a purified fully characterized viral particle. It's ridiculous. Do you know how many contaminant sources of genetic material would be found in a non-purified cell culture result? First of all the original source, the Chinese patient, has his own material and that of other species (bacteria, fungal, etc). Then you have the cell line itself. The original sequence means absolutely nothing.

It doesn't take a massive conspiracy for this to happen either. All it takes is the initial mistake/fraud at the top level, then it simply percolates down through all the teams copying the genetic material and/or the methodology itself. They all believe it is kosher, that they're working with material isolated in the correct manner or sequences that have been correctly produced. Why would they believe otherwise? That's the power of hierarchical institutions and organization, when a mistake happens at the highest level it simply trickles right down because people do not, or can not, question what they've been given.

If you re-read my bit above to Xorkoth, you'll understand why this is a very plausible scenario. Viruses exist at such a small scale that it's not like teams or people can simply recreate or verify the original premise that easily. It's all a matter of institutional belief and self-delusion. However, I do believe it is highly likely there is a small group of people who understand the truth about how this all works and have weaponized it accordingly (knowledge is power). I don't think they're virologists, or even scientists, I think it goes way beyond that.
 
The sequences are not proof of anything either, not least because the original sequencing was done using computer software patching together arbitrary segments and not from mapping the genome directly, from a purified fully characterized viral particle. It's ridiculous. Do you know how many contaminant sources of genetic material would be found in a non-purified cell culture result? First of all the original source, the Chinese patient, has his own material and that of other species (bacteria, fungal, etc). Then you have the cell line itself. The original sequence means absolutely nothing.
i am a bioinformatician and have spent 6 months of this year working exclusively on sars cov2. i do microbial metagenomics professionally and have 6 years of relevant experience, my entire job is basically screening out material that is not of interest and looking for needles in haystacks. i am happy for you to correct me if you prove your expertise to be higher than mine.

how would you map to the genome directly without an assembly? are you aware of contamination removal methods? screening for the host genome and removing those reads is trivial. are you aware that de novo assemblies of humans, viruses, etc have revolutionised medical science in the past 20 years? how do you explain this if we are just patching together arbitrary segments.

the original sequencing was done using either an optical based sequencer (illumina) for high quality sequences that can be used for assembly. or most of it is now done based on the voltage changes as you pass data through a pore (ONT), this is more error prone but if you design primers that target clade-defining mutations then you can get like 1000x coverage and thus basically a perfect consensus sequence.

can you please explain to me your qualifications in biology before i go further? i need to make sure i am pitching at the right level. what sort of library prep are you familiar with, and what are the pros and cons of each method? what sort of assembly approach is best for a virus like sars-cov2 compared to a complex eukaryotic genome like bread wheat? since you seem to have expertise in contamination, do you think a kmer based method is better than an alignment based or machine learning method, and which value of k would be better? or do you think that contamination removal can be done at the library prep stage (as your post implies) rather than in silico, and if so, please explain how cos my lab would really use that information. how does preparing an ssRNA genome for sequencing differ from a dsDNA/RNA for sequencing?

the fact that you think sequencing is done by software (basecalling, assembly, variant calling, haplotype phasing, enrichment analysis, yes) makes me suspect that you don't have any answers to the questions. we have many, many high quality assemblies of sars-cov2 now and the data map to them perfectly when contamination is screened out and coverage is sufficient to make an accurate consensus sequence given the inherent errors in sequencing technologies.

i'm not even sure why the original sequencing is relevant. none of the sequencing data i've used is from the original wuhan strains. its all NHS data. i don't even need the wuhan reference to map to because we have many others now. i could have done my entire job without having a single data point from the original sequencing.
 
well we got a load of dead people comparable to a "bad flu season" (your claim) despite masks, locking down, social distancing, et cetera. your conclusion seems to be that these efforts were pointless.
Actually I'm saying that lockdowns kill further, and the global medical industry has committed gross negligence on a scale that is unfathomable for most people. Senator and doctor Scott Jensen in 2020 was all of a sudden told by the ruling medical board to fill out death certificates differently. He had been filling out death certificates for decades already so why would they intervene to change things with regards to Covid? It's because they have not been counting deaths accurately or honestly, which matters when people start to talk about how many people died or how deadly covid is based on the numbers. We saw them counting deaths of people as covid who had died in auto accidents or from gunshot wounds, simply because when they died they tested positive. Then there was bizarre decisions (like from Cuomo and other leaders) to put sick and covid-positive patients into nursing homes with our most vulnerable elderly, which is obviously a bad idea. A 10 year old kid could tell you that would be a bad idea, yet none of these incompetent (or willfully malicious) psychos were held accountable for doing it. Crazy. Then there's the BS that many governments around the world pulled by restricting and even banning medications like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. Some of the safest drugs in the world which have been prescribed billions of times over decades were suddenly BANNED in some places. Even IF you disagree with using these drugs to treat covid19, it still doesn't explain why they would ban these medications. The level of fraud and corruption that we've witnessed since early-2020 has been difficult for even me to believe, so I'm not surprised so many people simply cannot perceive it. The lies are too huge.

my conclusion is that there would have been much more collateral damage if we had done nothing.
Wrong. If we did nothing you would not have even realized that anything was any different.

yeah lockdowns are awful, but had we done nothing, 0.3% (mortality rate claimed by another anti vaxxer here pictured as "low"), this would have wreaked havoc on our society.
You either don't do research or you don't remember what happened (I don't fault you, most people have chosen to forget). The models that they used (from Prof Ferguson/Imperial College) when they first wanted to justify lockdowns were complete BS. They said in the NZ that even if they locked down 2,000 people would die. That's WITH lockdowns. The number was not even close. Then they also warned that Sweden would have some ridiculous number of deaths if they didn't lock down. Well they DIDN'T lockdown and the death toll was nowhere close to what they were warning. Their predictions everywhere were not even close so nobody can say that lockdowns were effective. And back then they were also warning that the mortality rate could have been around 3.4% which is fucking huge. So as time progressed and we saw that the mortality rate was extremely low compared to what we originally thought, the lockdowns and pressure from governments should have reflected our progressive understanding. However it did not, in fact it got MORE strict and draconian. That was a huge giveaway as to the true nature of what is happening.


seriously, all those people who see their "rights infringed" by a collective effort to stop this pandemic are partially responsible that this is still going on. buhuhu I am scared of the vax buhu wearing masks suuuucks. give me a break you egotistical whiners.
Do you agree with mandatory vaccinations then? You're either a fascist if you do or an anti-vaxxer if you don't.
 
The options weren't vaccine vs. doing nothing.
Yes or the goal all along was mandatory vaccinations.

The media is lying left, right and center now. The amount of information being censored and concealed is shocking. We have scientists all over the world blowing the whistle and the response is to deplatform them.
All those whistleblowers are talking in "videos" so that must mean everything that they say is completely false or at least false enough that I shouldn't listen to them.

We are using a non-sterilizing vaccine in a pandemic and it's going to lead to a super strain of this virus. Mark my words.
Agreed. I've said this since the very beginning. We may be on the verge of an actual pandemic, a black death level event. And it will be caused by the vaccines plus the ill health fostered upon the globe by lockdowns and malicious govt policies.
 
Those poor surgeons, restricting their oxygen and breathing in bacteria. Makes you wonder how they perform such intensive life or death tasks while wearing those darn masks.
It’s not even comparable, a sealed n95 being worn while your body is opened up and wearing a piece of clothe over your face while out shopping for funko pops isn’t apples to apples. A good analogy for clothe masks protection would be comparing it to a chain link fence trying to keep sand from getting past it. Even an n95 would only be like chicken wire, Covid is .1 microns, masks are more of an entrainment thing/ security blanket. It’s typically only liberal mayos and urban folks that wear them here.
 
i am a bioinformatician and have spent 6 months of this year working exclusively on sars cov2. i do microbial metagenomics professionally and have 6 years of relevant experience, my entire job is basically screening out material that is not of interest and looking for needles in haystacks. i am happy for you to correct me if you prove your expertise to be higher than mine.

how would you map to the genome directly without an assembly? are you aware of contamination removal methods? screening for the host genome and removing those reads is trivial. are you aware that de novo assemblies of humans, viruses, etc have revolutionised medical science in the past 20 years? how do you explain this if we are just patching together arbitrary segments.

the original sequencing was done using either an optical based sequencer (illumina) for high quality sequences that can be used for assembly. or most of it is now done based on the voltage changes as you pass data through a pore (ONT), this is more error prone but if you design primers that target clade-defining mutations then you can get like 1000x coverage and thus basically a perfect consensus sequence.

can you please explain to me your qualifications in biology before i go further? i need to make sure i am pitching at the right level. what sort of library prep are you familiar with, and what are the pros and cons of each method? what sort of assembly approach is best for a virus like sars-cov2 compared to a complex eukaryotic genome like bread wheat? since you seem to have expertise in contamination, do you think a kmer based method is better than an alignment based or machine learning method, and which value of k would be better? or do you think that contamination removal can be done at the library prep stage (as your post implies) rather than in silico, and if so, please explain how cos my lab would really use that information. how does preparing an ssRNA genome for sequencing differ from a dsDNA/RNA for sequencing?

the fact that you think sequencing is done by software (basecalling, assembly, variant calling, haplotype phasing, enrichment analysis, yes) makes me suspect that you don't have any answers to the questions. we have many, many high quality assemblies of sars-cov2 now and the data map to them perfectly when contamination is screened out and coverage is sufficient to make an accurate consensus sequence given the inherent errors in sequencing technologies.

i'm not even sure why the original sequencing is relevant. none of the sequencing data i've used is from the original wuhan strains. its all NHS data. i don't even need the wuhan reference to map to because we have many others now. i could have done my entire job without having a single data point from the original sequencing.

I have no expertise. That doesn't matter. Science and its methods are open to criticism and critique, and hiding behind obtuse terminology doesn't add any level of validity to your position either. This isn't the medieval era anymore, fancy technical jargon and Latin words don't bamboozle or impress people any more. The truth matters, not advertising gimmicks. If you can't explain and defend the science at a high abstract level then it's not worth the paper it's written on.

If you don't have a purified sample of the virus isolated in the correct way, then you do not have an accurate definition. It is that simple. "Isolation" means to actually isolate the 'thing' from everything else. Your last paragraph alluding to the fact you don't even understand this just proves what I've already stated about top-down, hierarchical, institutional science and how you don't need any conspiracy at all. You're trying to put the cart before the horse using the lingo of the profession to obfuscate the fact that the original premise is in error.

If you haven't got a purified, fully characterized sample of the virus, then you're shooting in the dark. It's pretty self-evident. The sequences don't mean jack shit if the foundation from which they've been derived is a castle build on sand does it.
 
I have no expertise. That doesn't matter. Science and its methods are open to criticism and critique, and hiding behind obtuse terminology doesn't add any level of validity to your position either.
my point is that you don't understand the methods and therefore your criticisms aren't valid. you post as though you think you are making a valid point so i meet you where you claim to be, and if you have the understanding you profess, you should understand the jargon.

and unfortunately modern science is so specialised that each sub field has its own terminology. the post i originally quoted of yours makes no sense to somebody who actually has experience in this area. for example, i explained how the original sequencing was done (the 1 sentence, not 10k words plus a million figures and tables), you just alluded to it having been done 'on a computer,' which makes absolutely no sense. if you don't understand the basics of what machinery is used for sequencing then the rest of your argument is irrelevant, because you are reasoning from a false premise.
 
my point is that you don't understand the methods and therefore your criticisms aren't valid. you post as though you think you are making a valid point so i meet you where you claim to be, and if you have the understanding you profess, you should understand the jargon.

and unfortunately modern science is so specialised that each sub field has its own terminology. the post i originally quoted of yours makes no sense to somebody who actually has experience in this area. for example, i explained how the original sequencing was done (the 1 sentence, not 10k words plus a million figures and tables), you just alluded to it having been done 'on a computer,' which makes absolutely no sense. if you don't understand the basics of what machinery is used for sequencing then the rest of your argument is irrelevant, because you are reasoning from a false premise.
You're right, I don't understand the in-depth methods of your holy field. So what? It doesn't matter. If you can not explain and defend in simple terms, if you can not abstract away all the jargon and get right down to the fundamentals of what it is that you're actually doing, i.e. explain it to a 12 year old, then why on earth should anyone believe let alone trust what you're saying? Faith? Because you wear a white lab coat and have letters after your name? That might work for simple minded people, but to me that is not good enough. That line of thinking is pre-Enlightenment thinking, where only the authorities can raise questions and not the common man.

Feel free at any point to respond to the fundamental flaws in the virus isolation methodology though..
 
You're right, I don't understand the in-depth methods of your holy field. So what? It doesn't matter. If you can not explain and defend in simple terms, if you can not abstract away all the jargon and get right down to the fundamentals of what it is that you're actually doing, i.e. explain it to a 12 year old, then why on earth should anyone believe let alone trust what you're saying?
because i provide citations, i use the terminology correctly, and am willing to dialogue with people who are prepared to argue n good faith.

the 'explain it like a 12 year old' doesn't wash in modern science. my PhD was actually in quantum computing, developing algorithms and proving complexity results. it is literally not possible to explain those concepts, you have to do the maths yourself and understand it. so i've long understood that science is complicated and that some things just take years of hard work to grasp.

bioinformatics is a bit easier. i can explain genome assembly and variant calling to a 12 year old. but you are claiming the data i am doing this with is made up to start off with. if you would like to understand how the sars-cov2 genome has been assembled or how variants are detected, i am happy to explain that to you. but there is literally no point in me explaining that to someone who does not believe in sars-cov2 to start off with, because none of the things i'm explaining make any sense based on your premise that sars-cov2 doesn't exist.

Feel free at any point to respond to the fundamental flaws in the virus isolation methodology though..
i'm not a lab technician, as made clear in a previous post. i do know enough to know that your argument is not coherent. i've had incredibly clean covid data (LAMP specifically so not whole genome) from my lab but a) i don't understand how they did such an amazing job and b) even if i did, i can't say because its a trade secret.
 
actually i take it back re explaining assembly to a 12 year old. because first i'd need to explain a de bruijn graph, so i'd need to introduce graph theory, and then i'd need to explain computational complexity (for why we use DBGs and not overlap-layout-concensus), and then i'd need to explain the different types of sequencing data we put together for assembly, and i just do not have the patience. but fundamentally its not really that difficult, especially if we do reference-based rather than de novo assemblies.

variant calling is literally determing what variants are present, which i think everyone is familiar with as a concept now so shouldn't require explainiing.
 
Interesting back n for guys, on one hand SS grabs the part of me that says scientists are just fumbling bumbling in the dark, but chin up then brings me back to reality in that I don’t know shit about shit when it comes to this shit…sorry argue on
 
Those who dont live under social Democrats aka communism will forever be blind to what's going on in the world right now. These commies are now installing social credit systems like china and passing laws through without critical debate or even public submissions they accidnelty made it illegal to display a businesses vaccine staus here because they just randomly passed it through who knows what else they done.

All I know is that covid is bullshit the delta strain self terminated itself in japan due to acquiring to many mutations we just have to let covid run it's natural course. The vaccines destroy immune systems. Natural immunity is 1 million times stronger vs covid
 
No it has to be double or nothing not the same bet.
So if I lose I will leave BL forever AND kill myself.
Mate I really hope you are just joking about that!

Because after I saw Ali's comment first just now I thought oh God please not this again lol!

Mind you since those times I have reconsidered things a bit and I reckon it's probably no worse maybe even better than being banned for life lol.

The ultimate harm reduction ethos and measure of BL.
 
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