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Conspiracies The Covid Narrative

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Where is 245 from? “The article” is some other article than the Propublica, and I’ll just suppose that 245 is somewhere in this article. 🤔


idk it was 2 pages ago and you're still going on about it

go read it again and then come back and try to argue with me some more about it because i won't believe in the holy water that you think is in those bottles

😎
 
idk it was 2 pages ago and you're still going on about it

go read it again and then come back and try to argue with me some more about it because i won't believe in the holy water that you think is in those bottles

😎
Yes, I believe that if I can just show that I can’t figure out where you got a number from that you will stop being anti-vaxx.

Oh wait, you aren’t anti-vaxx. My mistake.
 
there are no sides, tis illusory and you're propagating it nicely - bravo

assumptive and strawman-strewn nonsense
Ah, interesting.
No sides except the right or wrong one. And of course the side that gets to choose what reality is for everybody else.
Classic divide and conquer. Turn entire populations against themselves and get them to do your dirty work for you.

I mean, not a massive fan of lots of things about society but I also don't want to destroy it either. I don't hate myself that much or other people.
But I guess the real nature of people are shown given the right variables and environments. I suppose you can see why slaves spent all that time building the pyramids and why we spent centuries as peasants. Maybe that is the real nature of most people after all. Maybe that's what they are meant to be. Maybe the rich and powerful are actually onto something and simply utilizing this understanding to capitalize. Maybe the masses are meant to be subjects after all. Much of our society is built this way. And who wins? You? Hardly. Your posts on a forum don't count for much. It's not getting relayed to the highest offices in the land. You don't even get a mention nor do they even get acknowledged as existing. What are you doing it for? What does it give you except a temporary and unfulfilling feeling of pleasure passively aggressively attacking your own people. But they are not your own people, are they? You don't know what that means. You've been kidnapped from society, conditioned and then put back in society to ensure division, segregation, unrest and discontent runs rampant and so there is no solidarity, no connection, no chance of fixing things. The people are not yours. You're just an isolated individual playing the recordings in his head given to you by people you will never meet nor will ever care about you nor even know you exist. They reap all the benefits; power, influence, political clout, wealth etc. And you get? The chance to write a few words on a forum.

My point is precisely that, which is tied in precisely with the topic at hand. And why people are refusing vaccinations. Because? People are waking up. You cannot deny that. It's all over MSM hence why there is a dire urgency to ensure people can be bought out (literally) with gift vouchers because they are losing their grip on the narrative. Just remember they said it was the old and vulnerable. Then it was the middle aged. Then it was younger people still. Then younger still. The science is only compatible with what we know and what we know posits only the old and vulnerable need protecting from stuff like this. Viruses that come and go are treated intensively only on those who are vulnerable to begin with. The outliers will always exist but let's not pretend your government cares about them. There are millions in your country right now who don't get the support, are marginalized and living in poor neighbourhoods and are not supported. We have a tendency to only see idealistic and romantic visions. The truth is, people are failed by the government everyday. The outliers are always marginalized, hence why they are outliers. They escape the net. But now we have to vaccinate the entire world in order to protect those we once used as scapegoats for our own societal f*ck ups? Now children need vaccinations in order to protect the population that the government would rather do without because of the burden they put on the respective systems? Don't believe me. Ask most people who can't afford healthcare and are discriminated and demonized for being a minority and/or outlier in whatever regard. Ask most people who are discriminated daily anyway let alone when it comes to health.

People are waking up. You might still be gulping down the kool-aid but the fact is, many are not.
The wheels are coming off the wreck hurtling down the hill. That's why we are transitioning from COVID-19 to climate change. Along the way we are incorporating top-down surveillance for a new form of governance. The fact you are so militant proves this new form of governance. A government that becomes authoritarian/totalitarian needs mouthpieces and needs enforcers. That's what happened in Nazi Germany. It's what still happens in communist countries to this date. The people become the enforcers for government so that ideology is conformed to/with at all times. You have create the perceptions of a majority doing the 'right' thing in order to attempt to pressure the others not doing the 'right' thing into conformity. The more people perceive it as being the right thing, the more assumed power the government has because this mass is used as pawns to sustain and expand the ideologies behind the regime. You make people believe tyranny is really not tyranny. You give them some power and influence and then punish those who challenge it therefore creating the illusion the most supported side of the 'argument' are the supporters, which then makes everyone else believe they must also be a supporter.

No vaccine for me. Proud to not have taken it and never will. Also proud to be a supporter of what I knew is the semblance of a free and open society defined by centuries of progress to get to that point and many ups and downs including the deaths of many people, the sacrifices of many people and lots of dark periods leading up to the world we have lived in for a long time. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Onwards and upwards. More people challenging the narrative is what we need and I thank them for their support.
 
the irony of your posting this seems lost on you.

alasdair
You need debate. Your definition of debate is compromised, is all. Debate to you is anything but. Conformity is what you want to a collective belief but we don't work that way. Unless you want something similar to the tyrannical authoritarian/totalitarian regimes where the people become unwitting henchmen for the government through brainwashing. Hitler did the same thing and was very successful. His propaganda department made sure the entire population was obedient to his agendas. It took him almost a decade if I am not mistaken but he got there by slowly manipulating everybody and then creating a majority that pressured the rest into conforming.
 
you already know what i am thinking and feeling and what my motivations are so what's the point? you've got it all worked out!

i might engage if i thought you were sincerely interested in a discussion. but i don't think you are so i won't.

again, not a little ironic.

alasdair
 
Science is debate. Something doesnt just make it from someones head to the lab and then into peoples arm without extensive debate.

So when scientists ( and doctors ) agree the best course of action is taking a vaccine and then people say ' but what about debate? ' its kind of like saying lets retread old ground again and again rather than moving on to new frontiers.

Thats not to say newer more complete understandings of old topics can't come up and widen the overton window, but usually that doesn't invalidate the established science.

For instance: Newtons laws still apply in the arena they were developed for. Different arenas may call for general relativity or quantum mechanics but none of that makes the newtonian equations not work.

Point being, spending a bunch of effort trying to 'debate' that climate change isnt happening or that vaccines dont work is just trying to undo newtons equation rather than moving onto relativity and really expanding our understanding of the universe.

Dont fall for that trick.

tldr: skepticism is good, neverending unquenchable skepticism is bad.
 
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is the United States the only country not recognizing natural immunity from a previous covid infection?

see - that alone, stinks to a lot of ppl - and it reeks of greed and money if you ask me - and im sure im not the only person who thinks that
 
Vaccines so successful they have to pay people to take them.

A possible explanation for that is that there is a huge misinformation campaign against it that they are trying to overcome. Believing that the need to offer people incentives to take a vaccine means that the vaccine is invalid is a logical fallacy. It is proof of nothing except that a lot of people are hesitant to be vaccinated.

you already know what i am thinking and feeling and what my motivations are so what's the point? you've got it all worked out!

Didn't you know, finitelifeform is smarter than everyone else and those who disagree are just sheep deluded by false narratives. Duh. Wake up.
 
Science is debate. Something doesnt just make it from someones head to the lab and then into peoples arm without extensive debate.

So when scientists ( and doctors ) agree the best course of action is taking a vaccine and then people say ' but what about debate? ' its kind of like saying lets retread old ground again and again rather than moving on to new frontiers.

Thats not to say newer more complete understandings of old topics can come up and widen the overton window, but usually that doesnt invalidate the established science.

For instance: Newtons laws still apply in the arena they were developed for. Different arenas may call for general relativity or quantum mechanics but none of that makes the newtonian equations not work.

Point being, spending a bunch of effort trying to 'debate' that climate change isnt happening or that vaccines dont work is just trying to undo newtons equation rather than moving onto relativity and really expanding our understanding of the universe.

Dont fall for that trick.

tldr: skepticism is good, neverending unquenchable skepticism is bad.
Who are those scientists? Who are those experts? What makes them so? How do we know they are? Experts create problems. As do scientists. Neither are free from being swayed towards ulterior motives. Our history shows that. Everyday experts keep things in motion that shouldnt happen or could be changed but their influence and reputation permits the same problems to keep on going. Experts of the economy manipulate it at their will and we suffer. The crashes of past were triggered by experts. All the military apparatus we have were created by science and by experts, they get dropped on innocent people or get leveraged to meet political agendas i.e failed wars that were never about the narrative average Joe gets told about.

Science and expertise can be used for bad or good. And they are used for good and bad. You are just not shown the raw truth of the bad so that the facade of only good can be seen. Your CNN-style sterile plastic news anchor sets to depict a reality that doesnt exist but which you think does because you are conditioned to see that news anchor set as being like a platform at a church for the priest to profess his message. A priest that could be a pedophile or a violent man at home to his/her partner. Could be muddling his tax returns. Could be part of an extremist group. But to most, hes just an innocent priest.

What you are shown is showbiz. A dilluted down version of reality based on romantic ideations of what marketers/PR and behavioural scientists want us to think is real. We know because we live in the valley of "normal" average Joe reality and we know deep down the TV doesnt depict reality correctly. We know when articles get printed about our area its often so skewed, superficial and downright dumb that you would think the journo writing it had never stepped foot in your area.

There comes a time where there is a disconnect. We mistake the incessant programming as reality and then forget to simply look beyond the programming. Thats where you find all the evidence for science and experts being evil. Yes, evil. What about the prisoners of Guantamano Bay who had the latest enhanced interrgation techniques used against them, many of whom were innocent and many who were abused, some to their death by sadistic military personnel whose only justification was they were just taking orders? What about the atom bomb dropped on Japan? Pure unalloyed evil. Completely unnecessary but the experts and science said it was justified. We pay for those mistakes to this day. What about napalm and agent orange used in Vietnam? Science and experts again. What about the surveillance scandal in the US regarding sweeping data collection? Science and experts. The people trusted to protect were actively spying on their own population.

We could go on and on. These are a few examples. Just because you hear it or see it time and time again doesnt make it true. Science and experts pushed all that above not just once but many times in order to fufill their agendas. Its not a cut and dry thing. It requires lots of resources, planning, manpower and of course, political involvement.

So, isnt it all political then?
The average Joe gets screwed everyday. We all say that. It becomes a cultural norm to say it and yet that implies we know we get screwed. So why dont we question what inevitably screws us over and why can we not connect the dots? We cant draw the line from science, experts, politics and downright f*ckery. We still want the CNN-style news anchor set. And we get it, along with the endless problems that come.

Your job is to shun everything you are told. You are supposed to treat authorities as they were intended, civil servants. Servants of civil society. You are supposed to make them prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what they say and demand is both true and justified. And that means running their sales pitch through a mill until it all falls apart.
They answer to you and yet today we answer and we speak for them like they are our friends. They are not friends. It is a machine, an empty cold machine that does not think. It seeks to expand and gain power and maintain itself at all costs even at the expense of the society it is tasked with overseeing. The role of these things are to sustain themselves and to ensure influence and power into the future. Continuity. Continuity of a presidency. Continuity of energy grid. Continuity of economy. Continuity of science. None of this puts you or anyone else at its center. Only the task of ensuring it lives on.

Its our job to make that living as difficult as possible or otherwise kill it entirely. Our role is to prevent head starts and even the playing field.

Do we do that? Only against one another. Not against the machinery that pits us against one another.
 
Didn't you know, finitelifeform is smarter than everyone else and those who disagree are just sheep deluded by false narratives. Duh. Wake up.
Perhaps. I dont see a problem with that. Being smart is a cultural construct based on selective markers of intelligence. Selective markers that are usually fairly superficial. It means nothing to me. Being in tune with the world I live in and not residing myself to seeing things just as they are, is far more important.

Its okay to think lots of things are bullsh*t. The shop assistant being a b*tch with you? Bullsh*t. The news again spewing garbage. Bullsh*t. National minimum wage and not national maximum wage. Bullsh*t. The worlds wealth belonging to 1% of the population. Bullsh*t. Failed wars. Bullsh*t. Being told weed makes you crazy. Bullsh*t. Wars over whose God is the realest. Bullsh*t. The rigged stock markets and economy. Bullsh*t. Extortionate house prices and yet significant increased cost of living. Bullsh*t. Fake people. Bullsh*t. Predictive text. Bullsh*t. Smartphones sucking up all your data and then sending it off to companies that make it rich off you being the product. Mark Zuckerberg secretly being a lizard. Bill Gates screwing everyone over to dominate the personal computer market. Bullsh*t. McDonalds selling food that actually never goes off. Bullsh*t.

It goes on and on...
Its okay to accept all this :)
You dont have to keep it all in and harbour all the guilt, anxiety, fear, invalidation, isolation, confusion, anger, betrayal.

I dont and well, call me intelligent if you want. Thats just a distraction in order to put the spotlight on me so that you potentially dont have to do the work I have done to relieve myself of the belief I have to burden all that onto me. Is that intelligence? I dont know. I like to think its within the capacity of everyone to overcome these hurdles.

You dont need to be wedded to all this sh*t, you know? Its an abusive relationship anyway that has you used as a conduit for the benefit of the abuser and not yourself. You can walk away at any time. The world wont end. Society as you know it will still be here tens of thousands of years into the future and what you think is a huge drama is nothing but hot air in time and space. All the fuss we make about all this and yet its part and parcel of the reality we live in and every generation will be victim to it well into the future. Their narratives will be very real like this one is. The narratives after that will be even more real. We all get told a story from life to death, right? And if we dont define that story for ourselves, as your parents probably said, or a good role model, someone else will. The mainstream story is childhood offers a rare opportunity to have innocence, probably about 5-10 years. Then you are indoctrinated into education. Then you get a job so you can get a house, car, the "dream". Then you start saving for retirement. You spend your life saving for the last period of your life after spending most of it on the conveyor belt living the rat race. Now you can enjoy... oh, wait... now you dead. You spend all that time while alive making a fuss for issues we pretend to fix but never do and dancing when told to. We shout at our shadow and scream at the wind. Then we die.

Conveyor belt life. All put together in a very sophisticated way so you ideally never leave the belt, or never realize you could. This isnt intelligence speaking. Its what we all joke about at work or with friends when life gets hard sometimes. The reality is, we are pretty serious but we want to make light humour and seem okay.

Its okay to be okay. Its okay to not be okay too. Its a problem when we cannot face the truth of either option. Its okay not to need any of this sh*t. Its okay to want to go back to a "normal" life.

I choose to live that "normal" life as best as possible utilizing as much of my resources as possible and going beyond the comfort zone I am told to remain. But thats just me and it works for me.
 
Who are those scientists? Who are those experts? What makes them so? How do we know they are? Experts create problems. As do scientists. Neither are free from being swayed towards ulterior motives.

Neither are you. Sorry but I'd much rather trust people who have spent their lives studying something, than someone like you who spouts pseudo-intellectual psychobabble rather than engaging in actual conversation.

What makes someone an expert is the fact that they have spent decades studying a topic much more deeply than anyone else ever does. What on earth makes you so sure you know more than people who have dedicated their career to study and analyzing a problem? That's what some might call hubris. It must be nice to be so self-assured about topics you don't really know much about. Debate is easy when you can hand wave anything away that you disagree with. It's not effective, but it's easy. For you anyway, it's quite frustrating for everyone else.

Any time someone presents you with arguments, you type up a page long wall of text that amounts to "no one can know anything for sure except that everything anyone tells you except what I'm telling you now is politically motivated". It's ironic because you're spending a lot of time telling us not to make everything so political. But you seem unable to engage in debate without bringing politics into it.

I'm perfectly okay. I'm not sitting around all day fuming about this stuff or looking down on people around me. I am a pretty happy and well adjusted guy and this stuff doesn't take up a lot of my mental space in my everyday life. But when I come on here to this forum, I come on here to debate topics, as that is what it's for. This isn't debate though, I'm not even sure what it is. it would be nice if you actually responded to any of the points I'm making rather than just repeatedly ignoring my points and telling me I'm a sheep.
 
i think the point is that if you sincerely feel that dialogue is the answer, telling people with whom you disagree that they're a bunch of ignorant sheep is an odd way to go about it...

respecting a different point of view would be a great start...

alasdair
 
Neither are you. Sorry but I'd much rather trust people who have spent their lives studying something, than someone like you who spouts pseudo-intellectual psychobabble rather than engaging in actual conversation.

What makes someone an expert is the fact that they have spent decades studying a topic much more deeply than anyone else ever does. What on earth makes you so sure you know more than people who have dedicated their career to study and analyzing a problem? That's what some might call hubris. It must be nice to be so self-assured about topics you don't really know much about. Debate is easy when you can hand wave anything away that you disagree with. It's not effective, but it's easy. For you anyway, it's quite frustrating for everyone else.

Any time someone presents you with arguments, you type up a page long wall of text that amounts to "no one can know anything for sure except that everything anyone tells you except what I'm telling you now is politically motivated". It's ironic because you're spending a lot of time telling us not to make everything so political. But you seem unable to engage in debate without bringing politics into it.

I'm perfectly okay. I'm not sitting around all day fuming about this stuff or looking down on people around me. I am a pretty happy and well adjusted guy and this stuff doesn't take up a lot of my mental space in my everyday life. But when I come on here to this forum, I come on here to debate topics, as that is what it's for. This isn't debate though, I'm not even sure what it is. it would be nice if you actually responded to any of the points I'm making rather than just repeatedly ignoring my points and telling me I'm a sheep.
You sure you havent come to just parrot propaganda in order to satiate your desire to get one over someone else who doesnt have the same beliefs?

I disagree with the narrative. Thats not changing. I am a student of social sciences and my speciality is group dynamics and political influence. I wrote a 235 page essay on group dynamics, specifically the behaviour of mobs and groupthink. I also study personality disorders as well as abuse studies, mainly narcissitic abuse although I have researched psychopathy and sociopathy in both societal and domestic settings. A bit about drug addiction too and its biological basis. I also have studied the Chinese societal transformation over the last century and its well documented ideological direction change, along with brainwashing that was rampant in order to push for complete control. Similiar stuff to regime change that we all know happens under tyranny. I also study psychotherapy, mainly those who have been victims of gaslighting and that includes political also. I have dealt with several clients who were victims of this for ousting corruption in positions of authority that led to sex crimes being committed on the victims.

You have been brainwashed if you believe you cannot know something unless its expertise in that particular field. Our brains are not so rigid. There are crossovers as well as diverse learning styles that correlate with multidisciplinary integration. My perspective is social sciences primarily.

What makes me so sure? The fact that never in the history of our humanity experienced anything like this and when we have its been on the history books as tyranny, oppression, authoritarianism/totalitarianism and ideologies that are counter to our societal foundations and identities. The fact that never in the history of our planet have we tore up the history books, science books and demonized common sense, rationality and reasoning. And when did, we lived under rule of the church and we killed "witches" and "exorcised" people of "demons" while the priest class intepretated scripture most couldnt read because most were completely illiterate and were kept from basic skills that aided them in basic functioning of life. The last times things happened similiar to this we lived in dark times. Just because we live in the modern world with conveniences doesnt imply we are not facing them now. And if you think dark times just happen like this, you deserve to be a slave to its narrative. You make your bed.

As I have said I dont believe it. You dont like it and you dont like my way of explaining myself. Thats a reflection of you, not me. If there was no narratives like this, I wouldnt be commenting. I am not the person continuing them. I am saying they stop when you stop believing in them, much like cult dynamics. I am saying this doesnt need to happen and that it is wrong and people need lots of help to heal them due to the torture they have endured. Then again, some people like to experience that and this is connected to our innate human desire to enact masochistic fantasies and be dominated and be in awe and submissive to a superior person/entity other than ourselves. Think religion, think cults, think BDSM and sub/dom relationships, think the social hieararchy we have in place and where the average person stacks up.

Some people want to be dominated and want to be told what to do. In psychology this is both good and bad. Its good as a child as it infers submission to elders. It can and often is negative when we grow older as we seek out our deep inner juvenile tendencies to find the superior other who can replace or improve upon our relatioship with our parents as a child. Thats why many adults are dysfunctional, because of their broken relationship dynamics and expectations with others and usually what we call mommy or daddy issues. Lots of people have that and then project it onto an even bigger entity, like God, or government, police, authority roles etc.

Your manipulation fails. You expect me to placate you and entertain you within the context of YOUR rules. I am taking you out of that area and it pis*es you off because you cannot control neither me or my opinion. I am looking beyond it whereas you want me to stay confined within it where, obviously, I am wrong either way. In terms of psychotherapy it would something similiar to detachment and challenging the clients presenting issues. Sometimes we blame others for our own reality. And sometimes we need reminding it is indeed OUR reality and OUR responsibility. My responsibility is to make sure you know its all coming from you, and not me.

I dont want this, you do. You are pushing, not me. It is the projection of your inner world predicated on your conditioning related to current events. Thats your sh*t to deal with, not mine. We can converse all day but forcing the debate to take what we all know is the only path, and thats what the mainstream narrative is, lets not pretend there are choices, we are all made to believe this is happening whether we like it or not (conditioning/brainwashing/gaslighting), isnt going to work.

You brought the fight. I just disarmed you and made into what it really is, a slanging match. I simply cut the facade and got down to the main point and thats society attacking itself while the world changes around us and changes happen we didnt want, need or ask for. Pretty silly really how desperate you are to negate from that.

If people dont like the fires they start, they shouldnt start them. Why when you get challenged for it do you try to gaslight the righteous responsible members of society for doing so? Thats all this. Starting fires and then through mob mentality and its pseudo-anonymous benefits believing you wont be isolated from the group and reprimanded while the group gets disbanded slowly but surely.

I have studied these areas for almost a decade and a half, a decade and a bit if you count my "official" academic years. I deal with this kind of stuff on a weekly. Its my bread and butter and the field of social psychology and sociology (kinda) lap this stuff up for breakfast. Its what many people wake up to immerse themselves in. Thats why it happened, only the worse among us woke up to enact the environment that spurs on the behaviour en masse. Then it spreads like wildfire as per mind contagions do.
 
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