• Current Events & Politics
    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

The Clinton Discussion Thread

Well, I guess we can agree to disagree (except about liking this section of Bluelight). Do you believe that the points I listed are fake news, or do you just choose to ignore what doesn't fit with your support of Trump? I mean you can easily google about this stuff. I challenge you to refute any of my points. If even one of them can't be refuted, don't you find that concerning?
 
I believe it's hard to tell truth from fiction these days and I'm not gonna get bogged down in pointless details that you say about every politician. I love Trump
 
It's not that hard to verify or deny the points I've listed. However I agree that it's been made more difficult. I thank #fakenews for that, and I thank Trump for #fakenews since he's the one who started pushing that. I mean don't get me wrong, I don't trust every word from mainstream media. But don't you see how dangerous it is for the President to be saying "hey guys, you can't trust anything you hear. You can only trust me, I'll tell you the truth"? This is how the Chinese government operates, this is how the Russian government operates, this is how authoritarian governments around the world operate. We're not to the point of having reporters assassinated yet, but Trump did recently kick out a CNN reporter from even being able to attend an event. A move which even Fox News condemned.

By saying "I love Trump, I'm not going to bother with pointless details", you are burying your head in the sand and giving someone you don't even know dogmatic trust while ignoring anything that attempts to undermine that trust. This is politics, not religion. You won't go to hell for investigating claims against him. Your attitude is alarming, because I know millions of other people are the same way. This is how dictators manage to gain power, right here.
 
Scott Pruit wasn't really head of the EPA, you can't verify that! Nor was Betsy Devose the head of the Department of Education! Quit lying you democrat cock sucker!
 
Well hey maybe I'm wrong maybe he is stupid crazy liar it doesn't matter either way it's not gonna effect is nothing will change so why give a fuckfuck??
 
Because if everyone just says "who gives a fuck it doesn't matter nothing will change", then it's guaranteed that nothing will change and we'll just hand the keys over to a megalomaniacal dictator without a struggle.
 
I'm joking btw you are right but I just don't like getting stressed about shit but of course I do care about it just not enough though.
 
Shadowmeister said:
I don't buy into the "all Trump supporters are racists" thing, but I do think you're sadly misguided. Just look at what he's done so far:

  • Appointed a guy as head of the EPA who spent his whole career trying to undermine environmental protections for big oil - fortunately he resigned
  • Appointed someone to the head of education who has spent her career working to undermine public education
  • Caused millions of Americans to lose their health care; reduced Medicare.
  • Passed a tax bill that massively benefits the ultra-wealthy and corporations while only only giving a tiny slice of the savings to those not ultra-wealthy; by the time the bill matures it will actively hurt the poor
  • Repealed media anti-trust laws which is allowing Sinclair group (the owner of Fox) to buy up the majority of (and ever more) local news outlets and forcing them to repeat right-wing/Trump talking points, all while actively and aggressively trying to turn the public against the free media by suggesting the media is the enemy of the people - which is how many authoritarian governments first begin to seize power (see: China, Russia, the list goes on).
  • Enacted policy to needlessly and cruelly separate children from migrants without even keeping records of which child belongs to which family
  • Threatened to abuse his power to pardon himself from a crime he claims he didn't commit
  • Continually undermines our relationship with our allies while sucking up to world dictators. We have never looked worse in the eyes of the world.
  • Started a trade war that has hurt many American industries. The only American industries benefiting are the top-level producers of metals and such, the customers of these industries that use the materials are suffering
Click to expand...

-Trump's EPA will work with more transparency than the predecessor. The US led the world in reducing carbon emissions last year and that's without signing the shitty Paris accords-
-Tax: Massively benefits the wealthy because they make more money so save more tax. The poor still save money with the tax cuts and experience some financial relief
-The Left complaining about media collusion is hilarious. The fake news media IS the enemy of the people. They deceived us during the election and continue to do so.
-BS claim of migrant children. Trump continued Obama-era policy (got roasted for it while everyone was hypocritically silent when it happened under Obama) and then Trump signed a bill to keep families together. That was also fake news brainwashing people as children needed to be temporarily separated until potential traffickers were ID'd.
-USA is looking strong in the eyes of the world. The trade war has been going on for a while now. Trump is merely evening the playing field and the US can survive these "wars" and come out on top.
 
Enjoy your fantasy world... except for the reduction in emissions, I'll give you that. Of course, Pruitt wasn't responsible for that, he was only appointed in 2017, and policies take time to come to fruition. Our emissions began to fall in 2005.
 
The US isn't looking strong in the eyes of the world. We look like a bunch of idiots.

Ugh, as an American living overseas, I'd say things are currently worse than they've ever been in my life. It was bad when Bush was president, but this is so much worse.
 
jessfr said:
the us isn't looking strong in the eyes of the world. We look like a bunch of idiots.

Ugh, as an american living overseas, i'd say things are currently worse than they've ever been in my life. It was bad when bush was president, but this is so much worse.
Click to expand...
sad
 
I hate feeling like I have to apologize for America or remind people that most people (by a sadly very small margin) didn't vote for trump.

There are political issues that I think the rest of the English speaking world find inexplicable about the US, like our gun laws. That I think can to a certain extent I feel can be defended without making apologizes for them, or try and explain that there are underlying cultural difference that are almost impossible to grasp unless youve lived much of your life in the US or grew up there.

But with Trump I find I can't do any of that. All I can say is that a lot of Americans are idiots or brainwashed, but so are a lot of people in other countries. We're just a lot more powerful so our mistakes have wider reaching reprecussions.

I'll tell you what sure doesn't help this at all. That trump seems to continually and repeatedly outright insult our closest and longest allies and friends, while singing the praises of people we've for the longest time considered our mutual enemies.

I've heard Americans say we shouldn't care what the rest of the world thinks of us, and there's an extent to which I agree. But I think there's a much larger extent to which that's very misguided. We shouldn't spit in the faces of countries who should be our allies. Like Canada, Australia and the UK especially. And especially not do that and then start saying nicer things about the likes of Putin and Kim Jong un.

But trumps a narcissist. All that's required for you to be his enemy is to say anything mean or in contradiction to him, and all that's required for him to sing your praises is to do the reverse. And this can go back and forth with the same people.

One day he's calling Kim Jong un juvenile names that more belong on a school playground, and the next he's praising the guy. Is it any wonder the rest of the world looks at him and thinks he's crazy.
 
JessFR said:
The US isn't looking strong in the eyes of the world. We look like a bunch of idiots.

Ugh, as an American living overseas, I'd say things are currently worse than they've ever been in my life. It was bad when Bush was president, but this is so much worse.
Click to expand...

Worse how?? How quickly our memories fade...

Trump is divisive but Dubya Bush was unanimously hated by almost everyone in the world. And the reason why was WAR. Afghanistan, Iraq, killed/starved/displaced millions and destroyed entire countries. Bush should be tried for war crimes. Obama then continued the neocon policy of destruction with Libya and then tried for Syria but their plans got thwarted. Trump has cut CIA funding to rebels in Syria and de-escalated the war there, including a potential hot war with Russia. Whatever political theater you may buy you into surrounding North Korea, you cannot argue or dispute the results. Kim holding hands with the South skipping into a peace treaty, handshakes with the POTUS and a continued commitment to denuclearize. Trump has de-escalated 2 major conflicts and has not started any new wars. I don't understand how anyone would disagree that that fact alone deserves attention and praise. Whatever happened to my beloved anti-war liberals?

Anyone who focuses on identity politics alone may be embarrassed and confused regarding Trump's presidency, but in terms of international realism, the US is looking very strong.
 
^I believe Jess was referring to the way Americans are perceived. Its hard to argue against how hated and ridiculed Trump is in much of the western media, and i guess this kinda flows onto the nationals, ex-pats or otherwise.

I'm not condoning this by any means though.
 
swilow said:
^I believe Jess was referring to the way Americans are perceived. Its hard to argue against how hated and ridiculed Trump is in much of the western media, and i guess this kinda flows onto the nationals, ex-pats or otherwise.

I'm not condoning this by any means though.
Click to expand...

You'd be surprised how many people globally adore Trump.
Brexit was a similar silent majority vote against the establishment.
If you're in an echo chamber such as only listening to the MSM and conversing with Trump-haters then of course you'd think the entire world is against him.
The media especially, which are arms of the establishment and have a global reach, are in attack mode against him.
It's not because he's evil it's because he threatens to expose their criminality.

Trust me, Americans were perceived FAR worse circa 2004.
It's a real shame because right after 9/11 the world mourned with the US and Americans showed amazing camaraderie amongst each other.
Then it became painfully obvious that the attack would be used to remove people's rights and propel us into more war (this time without a stated enemy/"terror").

Until people, especially outside the US, give us a good reason to hate Trump - apart from the fact that he became President - then their opinion is worthless.
Here's an example of why someone could hate him: the US continues to supply Saudi with weapons while they war with Yemen.
The military-industrial complex works independently of the government but Trump is still president - and I would hold anyone else accountable if they held that position so I have to do the same here.

There you go I'm giving you legitimate ammo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top