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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

The Clinton Discussion Thread

90% negative media coverage. Lies, misrepresentations and refusal to identify any positive changes.
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I'll give trump this - i'm really pleased that his putin thing is out in the open now. We can stop pretending it's not a thing.

It unquestionably is. "Collusion" with russian spies and members of the russian government/oligarchy/mafia (all the same thing in russia...and washington, right?)

That's a positive change and i'm glad we can stop debating whether that's "fake news" or not.
 
spacejunk said:
I'll give trump this - i'm really pleased that his putin thing is out in the open now. We can stop pretending it's not a thing.

It unquestionably is. "Collusion" with russian spies and members of the russian government/oligarchy/mafia (all the same thing in russia...and washington, right?)

That's a positive change and i'm glad we can stop debating whether that's "fake news" or not.
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How did you come to this conclusion? Did I miss the part of the presser where Trump and Putin said "yeah sorry we colluded" ?
Trump was being a statesman and not caving in to deep state or leftist pressure to act a certain way - but if you think he admitted to treason you did not interpret the event correctly.

Xorkoth said:
Really? The biggest political scandal of all time?
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I mean since you have to question this tells me that you do not truly understand the gravity of the situation.
Do people not listen or believe anything that I say? Do you all just read what I type as "blah blah alt-right nonsense blah lies lies" ?
I have no incentive or motive to lie about anything, I will just get made to look stupid and wrong and be discredited.

To answer your question, what's bigger, Watergate? That was one party breaking into the offices of another party and grabbing some files. Then the presidential cover-up.

Compare that to: we got a sitting president watching over while his FBI & DOJ collude with an MI6 agent and Russian officials. The opposing presidential admin illegally hides and funnels money to those Russians for fake intel. They then compile a dodgy dossier that they know is unverified and use that to get a surveillance wiretap on the incoming administration's people just like they would a foreign spy.
Russiagate isn't just a scandal it's an attempted coup.

That's just the basics, there's SO much more. In fact I can probably think of 5 current scandals that are bigger than Watergate.
But by all means feel free to suggest another.
 
I listen but I don't believe you a lot of the time. I don't think you're lying though, I just think you get your information from faulty sources. I believe that you believe what you're saying. You've also posted some stuff I concur with from time to time, but not when it involves Trump.

I can think of one off the top of my head: the sexual misconduct with teenage girls of Roy Moore. Bigger deal than illegal wiretapping.
 
Xorkoth said:
I can think of one off the top of my head: the sexual misconduct with teenage girls of Roy Moore. Bigger deal than illegal wiretapping.
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I'm sorry, but NO WAY not by a long shot.
For one, a heap of 'evidence' in that case was proven to have been fabricated.
There was probably some truth to him courting some underage girls back in the time when it was considered more socially acceptable. And no disrespect to any of his victims or excusing of his behavior, but Bill Clinton being accused of actually raping women (and Hillary intimidating victims) is worse than that. Or how about Anthony Weiner, not only getting caught messing around with underage girls (twice), but getting caught with classified information on the same laptop?
I can think of so much more, but again the illegal wiretapping is far worse. You realize that treason is a capital offence?
And don't get me started on the Clinton's links to Jeffrey Epstein / Weinstein / James Alefantis / The Podestas / Laura Silsby etc. You don't want to play compare the scandals if you're on the left.
 
JGrimez said:
Do people not listen or believe anything that I say? Do you all just read what I type as "blah blah alt-right nonsense blah lies lies" ?
I have no incentive or motive to lie about anything, I will just get made to look stupid and wrong and be discredited.
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I'm curious, do you believe anything that Xorkoth, spacejunk, or alasdairm says? From watching these conversations it seems to me like you have the exact same reaction you accuse them of, "blah blah blah liberal nonsense blah blah lies lies". However, if you have some counterexamples I would like to see them.

I don't know that they would have any more reason to lie than you do. The same thing would happen to them; they will look stupid and discredited when the truth comes out.

Now, I'm not saying that they always give you a fair shake or the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not sure it's fair to say that this is only something they do. It seems to me that this goes both ways, and that there has to be some better way to approach these things.
 
If I'm honest. I don't believe things JGrimez says most of the time. Sorry JGrimez, but it's been my experience that your standards of determining what information is likely to be true as opposed to false are wildly at odds with my own. It's not that I think you're deliberately lying. It's that I think at times you lie to yourself or that you fail to recognize what's likely to be true vs likely to be false.

One common and serious mistake I hear people make when evaluating people's claims, is assuming they are either telling the truth, and it is the truth, or intentionally lying, and it is false. There are many possibilities beyond those two. Most of the time I think people are telling the truth, but still wrong.

Alien abductions are a frequent example, with people insisting the proclaimed abductee must either be telling the truth, and that what they say happened happened exactly as they say with the implications it carries. Or they're making it all up. Usually I think they believe it, but that it's still false.

The untrained mind is highly susceptible to wrongful conclusions, and human memories are highly fallible. I don't consider witnesses to be evidence of generally anything.
 
JessFR said:
It's not that I think you're deliberately lying. It's that I think at times you lie to yourself or that you fail to recognize what's likely to be true vs likely to be false
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It's funny, though... JGrimez seems to be skeptical of lots of stuff. But he also seems to believe basically every idea that originates from Kremlin agitprop. He's remarkably consistent in that sense.

spacejunk said:
It's a fucking crisis for america and her allies
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I also just wanted to say that the resistance movement in America fucken really appreciates the strong showing of solidarity from all our brothers and sisters overseas. You have no idea how important it's been to us to know that people around the world have our backs. The Brits, especially, went hard as fuck in the paint during Trump's recent visit. It was so great.

If Trump ever goes to Aussieland, I hope you make him feel as unwelcome as possible.

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spacejunk said:
I think it's a bit ridiculous to accuse trump critics of being "one sided".

A lot of us gave the idiot a chance, and he's far exceeded many of our worst expectations.

The fact that you continue to act the trump apologist smacks of either cognitive dissonance or trolling, frankly.
He's the worst president of the modern age. He makes nixon look competent, coherent and squeaky-clean by comparison.

That's not an exaggeration.

When i suggest you are trolling, this is exactly what i'm talkinng about. There is no more wait and see to make an "educated assessment"
Those of us paying attention see this disaster for what it really is. It's a fucking crisis for america and her allies.

I really dislike this trumpist gaslighting. Stop insulting our intelligence.
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Don't you think he at least deserves credit for solving the North korea deal as well as increasing the economy he might not be perfect but trump is the most honest and genuine politician in history.
 
I guess if people don't like someone no matter what the person will always be hated I have more respect for trump the more he's hated and the more he ignores the brain dead morons and is getting on with what he promised I wish we had someone like him!
 
Patrickforsterter said:
I guess if people don't like someone no matter what the person will always be hated I have more respect for trump the more he's hated and the more he ignores the brain dead morons and is getting on with what he promised I wish we had someone like him!
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Build that Wall! Lock her up! All that other stuff! The North Korea thing! Increase the economy! #MAGA!
 
Patrickforsterter said:
Don't you think he at least deserves credit for solving the North korea deal as well as increasing the economy he might not be perfect but trump is the most honest and genuine politician in history.
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Only Trump and right-wing pundits think anything has been solved with North Korea. It did seem like it might be promising but very few are still saying it looks good. Trump got trolled hard by Kim. Even Fox News isn't on Trump's side anymore about it.
 
cduggles said:
^Yep.
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But all politicians have their battle cries and promises what makes trumps promises different I mean I could quote hillaires Clinton's promises but I won't cus it's just silly and shows I have no really argument to make.

"^Yep" whatever that means
 
I don't buy into the "all Trump supporters are racists" thing, but I do think you're sadly misguided. Just look at what he's done so far:

  • Appointed a guy as head of the EPA who spent his whole career trying to undermine environmental protections for big oil - fortunately he resigned
  • Appointed someone to the head of education who has spent her career working to undermine public education
  • Caused millions of Americans to lose their health care; reduced Medicare.
  • Passed a tax bill that massively benefits the ultra-wealthy and corporations while only only giving a tiny slice of the savings to those not ultra-wealthy; by the time the bill matures it will actively hurt the poor
  • Repealed media anti-trust laws which is allowing Sinclair group (the owner of Fox) to buy up the majority of (and ever more) local news outlets and forcing them to repeat right-wing/Trump talking points, all while actively and aggressively trying to turn the public against the free media by suggesting the media is the enemy of the people - which is how many authoritarian governments first begin to seize power (see: China, Russia, the list goes on).
  • Enacted policy to needlessly and cruelly separate children from migrants without even keeping records of which child belongs to which family
  • Threatened to abuse his power to pardon himself from a crime he claims he didn't commit
  • Continually undermines our relationship with our allies while sucking up to world dictators. We have never looked worse in the eyes of the world.
  • Started a trade war that has hurt many American industries. The only American industries benefiting are the top-level producers of metals and such, the customers of these industries that use the materials are suffering
 
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