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The Birth of a Police State: UK Police to be Granted Sweeping New Powers

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this is how it will all end I imagine...
 
Yeah, around Manchester, if a rave is already in full-swing, they'll generally just keep an eye on it, and stop others getting in. They're normally quite decent about things. There's been one or two, where people have been arriving, and the police have got there, and kicked the fuck out of people. Then again, that's hardly anything new. They know they'd have a riot, if several thousand people were asked to leave a rave that was already in progress.
 
i don't think that peopl would fuck up without all these leaders. that's the thing. we are led to believe that man, human nature whatver is bad. I don' t think that it is. We don't need rule. most of us do not want to live sick depraved lives at the expense of other people .
 
Well said. We should have basic laws, for basic people, and just lock them up. Anyone with any intelligence doesn't need a law to follow.
 
hmm...
Our current situation has not come about overnight. We're social creatures and were naturally drawn to each other to form complex societies. Once you get a certain number of people living together its natural for rules to be needed.
I'm not saying our current society is fair it never has been. The rich screw the poor they always do.

But to talk about a society without law is talking about ignoring or undoing 1000s of years of societal evolution. We did it this way because its what worked.
 
If you have water that comes out of taps, electricity, food and a roof over your head then yes, you can say society has worked for you.
 
thread title is bullshit. "birth of a police state"

umm, is this journalism (current events) or a history lesson.
 
NSFW:
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anarchism is nonsense, there has to be some structure to society and there has to be some rule of law, but there has to be a balance between a rational approach to dealing with things that are bad or dangerous or beyond the level of management that communities above a certain size can deal with.

good example - in an isolated community of 10 people, and 1 person owns a tv. the tv is stolen. the next day, someone else from the community has that tv in their home and a neighbour notices it. it is obvious who took the tv. therefore there is a natural deterrent against petty crime that prevents it happening in the first place, because people do generally want to cooperate, we are social animals. This model does not scale though, and in a community of 1000 people, many of whom may not know each other, or there are isolated subgroups, this model does not work. the social distance between any 2 people in the community means there is less risk involved in petty crime, and more incentive to do it because you might get away with it, because there is less chance of getting caught out.

this is exactly why law and social hierarchy came into being over the eons.

so to say in a country of whatever the population of the uk is now (25mil?) can exist without law and heirarchy to maintain a rule of law, is nonsense.
 
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pontifex01 said:
If you're too stupid to know that there's an inextricable link between the two you should keep your opinions to yourself. Btw, click my link below and have a gander at what's happening on your own home ground.

The swine are indeed closing in.
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I think you've misunderstood that. I read it as "Birth of a police state is bullshit because we've been in a police state for a while". Then again, maybe I've misunderstood...
 
pontifex01 said:
If you aimed them at me,
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It wasnt aimed at anyone in particular, other than the stereotype.

I found the huff's reporting on HR347 quite hysterical. The ACLU takes a more sober view.

Pissing in the wind ? Yes
Squabbling ? Maybe a little
Still nice to have a conversation you can get your teeth into now n then tho :)
 
pontifex01 said:
PTCH where do you stand on Scottish independence? Only ask cos one of the journo mates I forwarded the article(s) to brought it up and made some interesting observations. I'd personally like to see an independent Scotland, and having a Scottish granddad means I could technically apply for Scottish citizenship :D would rather have that over Brit any day of the week.
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Not too long ago I would have said that I'm undecided, need to properly look into it etc, but that I was leaning more towards No. Now I am definitely voting Yes. I don't even need to look into it properly any more. Sure, whoever ends up running Scotland may well fuck it right up but it's worth a chance. Anything to get away from these Tory fucks that are currently ruling us who could not give a fuck about a Scotland* (or most of England by the looks of it).

*For good reason right enough, they've got no votes here so no need to bother about us. We don't matter in terms of UK elections so what's the fucking point?

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The clowns in the Scottish Parliament at the moment may well be clowns, but I don't think they're quite as evil as Dave n the boys.


More editing - This latest thing with the billboard driving around areas with a lot of immigrants basically saying "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS GO HOME!" is a perfect example. I really don't think any possible Scottish government would consider doing something like that.
 
Pontifex, I don't think justinsayno's comment was aimed at you, and, as PTCH says, I think kaywholed is suggesting we're already a police state.

Don't fly off on one all the time. Don't assume things are always aimed at you.
 
^ hahahahaha. Scottish independance is an interesting one, it would completely knacker the british military and police forces, SOCA and the intelligence agencies.
 
There is more agreement than disagreement in this thread.

We can all see the way things are going. I just see a lot of it as inevitable, sad but inevitable.
I accept sacrificing a small amount of freedom to keep the price of baked beans down and to stop my sister getting raped.

How much freedom we actually have left, what, if anything can or should do about it I guess is where the disagreement lies.
This is based on with each individual's perception of things so these conversations do tend to go in circles.

But yesterday i was starved of adult company so it was a pleasant distraction
 
:)

Thanks, had loads of coffee now.

awake.

Got to make a bird box "with" my son today. "With" meaning I make the fucking thing while he watches for 5 mins, gets bored and fucks off out to play with his mates, and i spend the next 3 hours on me own finishing it.

EDIT>>>>birdboxes always look like surveillance cams to me. On topic innit.
 
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^ Funny, I remember putting my dad through the same ordeal when I was a little child.

It's a fun idea at the time, but when you don't have the skills to make one yourself and you're watching dad make something it gets rapidly less fun.
 
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