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The Big & Dandy Syrian Rue & Harmala MAOI Alkaloids Thread

Most people seem to find huge differences between the subjective effects of MAOIs within the "harmaloid" class alone. Of harmaline, harmine, and tetrahydroharmine, harmaline is generally reported to be the least recreational, and the most sedating and "stoning" of the harmala alkaloids, but the most potent MAO inhibitor. THH is, on the other hand, reportedly stimulating, euphoric, and mildly psychedelic -- and the least effective MAOI. Harmine lies somewhere in the middle.

There's a wealth of information on MAOIs / RIMAs over at the DMT-Nexus.
 
TheAppleCore said:
Most people seem to find huge differences between the subjective effects of MAOIs within the "harmaloid" class alone. Of harmaline, harmine, and tetrahydroharmine, harmaline is generally reported to be the least recreational, and the most sedating and "stoning" of the harmala alkaloids, but the most potent MAO inhibitor.
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Thanks! I think my first Ayahuasca experience might have been 100% the result of syrian rue. It was my first time taking an maoi and my first time taking mimosa. I assumed the insanely high body load was due to dmt, or mimosa. I assumed dmt was the main course, and Rue was just a little thing to make the dmt active. Then I learned both substances are active on their own, and syrian rue can be a monster all by itself. I don't think I metaolized any dmt bc I barfed up the mimosa within about 15 minutes, and only got a few sips. I took about 5g of Syrian Rue. I didn't see any characteristic dmt lines, but did become quite dreamy, and severely dizzy, which I suspect was the result of Rue. I shall experiment with mimosa and lower of syrian rue. I'd bet even 1.5g of Syrian Rue would be enough to activate dmt.
 
I know this post is 8 years old but I remember several of my freinds would get contact highs from the rest of us being on LSD. They would usually smoke a lot of hashish or high grade pot as well. In one case we wrote down what we believed was occurring without talking about it between 5 of us. After the experience a comparison of notes showed our experiences were not just similar but identical. A truely shared experience where we were not even sure whose mind was originating a thought.
 
I'd love to hear more experiences of the harmalas alone - I've search for many and it sounds potentially promising if more nausea inducing than somethings. Thinking of trying it as well as trying smoking either harmine or a harmaline/harmine mix.

As for moclobemide mention earlier in the thread by many it is totally different as a predose to mushrooms = in truth not a fan of shrooms but harmalas are far and away superior - they add there own spirit, they are the basis of ayahuasca (and sometimes used singularly which is why they deserve more attention).

Lotsof did some research into antiaddiction with these (somewhat closer to iboga than NN tryptamines) and of course Naranjo did therapuetic work - I feel they are like bufoteine a bit of an under researched molecule.

Finally are there any guesses to useful modifications or substitutions theorised for this substance/s? I'd be interested - in a minority I guess since everyone is so petrified of the MAOIs but it's actually reversable (RIMA); most of that is a bit over the top, not fully informed.
 
That is true but without testing there aren't many clues - I was wondering since some are well versed in chem/SAR if they had any intuitions or may if the chem has come any further - I guess not. I think at the DMT nexus or eslewhere one of the minor haramalas THH (?) had been isolated and got good results; must read it all again but it doesn't seem basic questions like moving the 5Me0 to the does or sticking on a 4OH would do; that might be over simplisic and a breif look again shows the number conventions don't look the same.

Post 153 tried harmaline/harmine before a small left over dose of LSD; no potentiation - some effects from the harmalas which did particularly help raise the small acid dose into anthing more useful. Were it a fairly useless amount of shrooms I am thinking a hefty harmala dose might have given some joy; the shrooms for their faults seems better meshed with it as well as potentially stronger.
 
Any clues on alternative routes of ingestion for harmalas?

Sprinkling some onto smokable herbs seems to work fairly well, and is pleasant.
Vaporizing it from a glass pipe is incredibly harsh on the lungs and you end up loosing a huge amount coughing.
Nasally it burns like hell.
 
Short and easy Question: How much Harmala Alkaloids can you extract from 100g of Syrian Rue ? In THIKAL it says ~ 4% Alkaloids, but as they don't say Harmine/Harmaline I thought it must be every Alkaloids and this is of course not the answer to my question then. Thx !
 
From experience harmaline didn't potentiate LSD - since it's active it can have additive effects though.
 
β-carbolines found in Peganum harmala, according to a recent review:

Harmaline

Harmine

Harmalol

Harmol

Harmane

Norharmane

Tetrahydroharmine

Tetrahydroharman

Harmalidine

Harmalacidine

1-Hydroxy-7-methoxy-β-carboline

Acetylnorharmine

Harmic acid methyl ester

Harmine N-oxide

Harmalanine

3-Hydroxylated harmine

2-Aldehyde-tetrahydroharmine

6-Methoxytetrahydro-1-norharmanone

8-Hydroxy-harmine

Dihydroharmane

Tetrahydroharmol

Harmalicine


This was filtered from the list in Table 4 in this article by Grok:

Peganum spp.: A Comprehensive Review on Bioactivities and Health-Enhancing. Sharifi-Rad, J., Quispe, C., Herrera-Bravo, J., Semwal, P., Painuli, S., Özçelik, B., Hacıhasanoğlu, F. E., Shaheen, S., Sen, S., Acharya, K., Amirian, M., Castillo, C. M. S., López, M. D., Schoebitz, M., Martorell, M., Goloshvili, T., Al-Harrasi, A., Al-Rawahi, A., Kumar, M., Suleria, H. A. R., Cho, W. C. 2021. Oxid Med Cell Longev, 2021, pages 1–20, doi: 10.1155/2021/5900422

6-MeO-harmalan is also an interesting β-carboline. I don't think it's been found in nature, but it's similar to the natural ones and it is hypothesized to be endogenous in humans. It was tested in combination with 5-MeO-DMT. More info: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29184532
 
Need a copy of this:

Review of β-carboline and its derivatives as selective MAO-A inhibitors. Benny, F., Kumar, S., Jayan, J., Abdelgawad, M. A., Ghoneim, M. M., Kumar, A., Manoharan, A., Susan, R., Sudevan, S. T., & Mathew, B. 2023. Archiv der Pharmazie, 356(7), e2300091. doi: 10.1002/ardp.202300091

Abstract

As flavin adenine dinucleotide (FAD)-dependent enzymes, monoamine oxidases (MAOs) catalyze the oxidative deamination of various endogenous and exogenous amines. MAO-A inhibitors are thought to be effective therapeutic agents for treating neurological diseases including depression and anxiety. Due to the academic challenge of developing new human (h) MAO-A inhibitors and the potential for discovering substances with remarkable properties compared to existing MAO-A inhibitors, numerous research groups are looking into novel classes of chemical compounds that may function as selective hMAO-A inhibitors. β-Carbolines are reported to be a prominent class of bioactive molecules exhibiting MAO-A inhibition. Chemically, β-carboline is a tricyclic pyrido-3,4-indole ring. It has only recently been discovered that this chemotype has highly effective and specific MAO-A inhibitory activity. In this review, structure-activity relationship studies included in particular research publications from the 1960s to the present are discussed with regard to β-carboline and its analogs. This comprehensive information helps to design and develop a new family of MAO-A inhibitors for the management of depressive disorders.
 
red22 said:
Need a copy of this:

Review of β-carboline and its derivatives as selective MAO-A inhibitors. Benny, F., Kumar, S., Jayan, J., Abdelgawad, M. A., Ghoneim, M. M., Kumar, A., Manoharan, A., Susan, R., Sudevan, S. T., & Mathew, B. 2023. Archiv der Pharmazie, 356(7), e2300091. doi: 10.1002/ardp.202300091

Abstract

As flavin adenine dinucleotide (FAD)-dependent enzymes, monoamine oxidases (MAOs) catalyze the oxidative deamination of various endogenous and exogenous amines. MAO-A inhibitors are thought to be effective therapeutic agents for treating neurological diseases including depression and anxiety. Due to the academic challenge of developing new human (h) MAO-A inhibitors and the potential for discovering substances with remarkable properties compared to existing MAO-A inhibitors, numerous research groups are looking into novel classes of chemical compounds that may function as selective hMAO-A inhibitors. β-Carbolines are reported to be a prominent class of bioactive molecules exhibiting MAO-A inhibition. Chemically, β-carboline is a tricyclic pyrido-3,4-indole ring. It has only recently been discovered that this chemotype has highly effective and specific MAO-A inhibitory activity. In this review, structure-activity relationship studies included in particular research publications from the 1960s to the present are discussed with regard to β-carboline and its analogs. This comprehensive information helps to design and develop a new family of MAO-A inhibitors for the management of depressive disorders.
Click to expand...
Annas-archive has it.
 
While I personally prefer Banisteriopsis capii to Peganum harmala, I've used countless different MAO inhibitors of various kinds over the years, especially in comibination with (typically) serotonergics. Alicia anisopeta;a was one of the strangest I've ever used, and mixing Acorus calamus root (600mg gel cappeed) the day after a 10 strip, plus about 2g of D9 tincture had me tripping for another couple days. I've spent a lot of time with "lysergahuasca", "shroomahuasca", ayahusca, "pharmahuasca", and a handful of others, so if anybody has questions feel free to ask away!
 
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