The Big & Dandy Synthetic Cannabinoids Thread

[Sentience]

In this thread alone, about 3 to 5 different vendors all jump in and claim they are using JWH-18 and make not mention of others.

http://forums.joerogan.net/showthread.php?t=97844


In my home town the Black Mamba brand states that it contains it.

On a different merchant site for hand crafted stuff I found another which openly states it has JWH-18.


18 has the most publicity and is cheaper than the other JWHs.....maybe not when compared to HU-210 or the other one thats just numbers, but its the one that has the most domestic 'copy cats' doing it themselves....This is a judgment call based on pretty significant anecdotal evidence. I am about 99.99% sure that I what I am saying is true.


Just look at the number of people who have tried 18 in this thread but not any of the others, besides maybe 73.....it should be a fairly easy and obvious judgment call. 73 is the only other well known one, and that one isnt economical compared to 18.

 

[Coolio]

There's no evidence though. These smoking blends are known to contain bogus, completely fake ingredients lists. Starting with Spice Gold the manufacturers have been defrauding the public.

Just because Black Mamba says it has JWH-018 doesn't mean anything. Until you have some lab test results from someone authoritative, it's just a bogus claim.

You are really going to take vendor talk seriously as evidence of anything? What incentive do they have to be honest with the public?

 

[Coolio]

I could easily provide a very long list of brands that contain JWH-18, and would probably have a harder time finding a list of those that contain other JWH varieties.

Globally it might no longer be the case in Europe as laws have been made against 18 and others are used to replace it, but in my anecdotal experience after doing considerable research when I was thinking about ordering some, I came across a whole lot who say they contain JWH-18 and few if any that talk about containing 73 or 200 or 250 or 81 or the HUxxxx which is illegal or that other one with numbers that is even more potent but is an actual drug with an expired patent.

Am I allowed to name brands here? I can in fact prove that many are using JWH-18.

It doesn't matter what they say they contain, there's a long history of duplicity in the industry. The FDA is not checking these manufacturers' plants for healthy and safety regulations. There is nobody forcing them to be honest with customers about what drugs they're selling.

It took government seizures and lab testing for anyone to be able to prove that JWH-018 was in any smoking blend.

 

[Sentience]

Point taken. I cannot scientifically prove that these blends have what they say they have.

On the other hand.....its the most popular JWH and its cheaper per dose than any of the others that have gotten any press. If they are admitting to using JWH-18 I dont see a lot of motive to actually be using 73 instead and lie about it....73 is more expensive per dose, as is 200 and 250. If you had one of these exotic ones that cost more to dose your herbs with I would think they would advertise it.

The HU-210 and the other one thats numbers are both more potent than 18....those are possible replacements, though they are illegal and harder to dose properly and more expensive per gram meaning you need a larger initial investment....I dont see a lot of incentive to do this since JWH-18 is the most popular and cheap and available and potent.


What you are saying is technically true, but I am making a judgment call based on the extreme likeliness of it being correct.


Why would you spend nearly double per gram for a chem that requires 5x or even 10x as much of it to get the desired effect then lie about using the more expensive and exotic JWH and claim you used the cheaper one that is more likely to induce dysphoria? It doesnt make any goddamn sense.

Are you just being 'technical' or attempting to be a skeptic, or do you actually doubt that people are using the cheapest and most potent as well as popular JWH more than the others?

 

[Coolio]

Point taken. I cannot scientifically prove that these blends have what they say they have.

On the other hand.....its the most popular JWH and its cheaper per dose than any of the others that have gotten any press. If they are admitting to using JWH-18 I dont see a lot of motive to actually be using 73 instead and lie about it....73 is more expensive per dose, as is 200 and 250. If you had one of these exotic ones that cost more to dose your herbs with I would think they would advertise it.

The HU-210 and the other one thats numbers are both more potent than 18....those are possible replacements, though they are illegal and harder to dose properly and more expensive per gram meaning you need a larger initial investment....I dont see a lot of incentive to do this since JWH-18 is the most popular and cheap and available and potent.


What you are saying is technically true, but I am making a judgment call based on the extreme likeliness of it being correct.


Why would you spend nearly double per gram for a chem that requires 5x or even 10x as much of it to get the desired effect then lie about using the more expensive and exotic JWH and claim you used the cheaper one that is more likely to induce dysphoria? It doesnt make any goddamn sense.

Are you just being 'technical' or attempting to be a skeptic, or do you actually doubt that people are using the cheapest and most potent as well as popular JWH more than the others?

The "cost" of these synthetic cannabinoids for a producer of mass quantities of smoking blend is nothing like the "cost" for you. At some bulk price point, every common synthetic cannabinoid can be synthesized for under $5/gram or maybe even $1/gram. These manufacturers have the ability to get millions of foil packets printed, stuffed, and sealed. They have the ability to have a custom synth done on any cannabinoid they can find in the literature.

The cost of the synthetic cannabinoid is less than the cost of the foil packet or the inert carrier herb.

If someone has already a large stock of something other than JWH-018, and is finding it hard to push their product, they have quite an incentive to lie and claim that their smoking blend contains JWH-018 as JWH-018 is the most popular, most searched for, etc. It would just bring them more business at this point.

There are a lot of experimental cannabinoids being used in smoking blends, based on anecdotal evidence. JWH's, CP's, AM's, etc. Until there's something to document this, it's best not to spread unsubstantiated rumors about what's in these shady ass products.

 

[Sentience]

Coolio, discussing prices is prohibited on this site. I would respond to your statement but its against the rules. Please dont discuss prices.

It does not seem likely that many if any US based suppliers of incense are manufacturing their own JWH-18.....its cheaper to import it and less of a liability.

I have spent a lot of time talking with overseas producers of various RCs. I was thinking about getting into myself as its so cheap and the markup is ridiculous. I was discussing prices with the labs (which should not be discussed on these boards)....not the US based RC companies that sell things at a gigantic markeup, but ones from Eastern Europe or Africa or Asia where most of it is produced. I have a very good understanding of what it would cost to make one smoking blend vs another. Using 73 or 200 and lying about it to claim you are using 18 is just not practical and doesnt make any sense.....and even if we were to accept what you are discussing about prices, when you have to use 10x as much the potency becomes more significant than the cost per gram.

While its possible that all of the companies claiming 18 are lying and using more expensive or more difficult to obtain products instead, I find that theory highly unlikely.

Furthermore, I dont see any potential harm in claiming that JWH-18 is the more prevelant cannibinoid on the market. There is certainly evidence to support this theory, though a lot of it is anecdotal. It makes the most sense and its documented to be in more bnrands than any other product. Its more cost effective than any of the other JWHs and doesnt have the legal liability of some of the other synthetics you mentioned. Still, if I am not claiming that any specific brand has one thing or the other, then we should treat any product as an unknown.

JWH-18 is everywhere. Everyone is talking about it. Its the easiest to buy. Its in the media more than the others. Its the most cost effective. Its more available. You dont need as much of it. Its listed as the ingredient far more often than the others.....

I think its unlikely that any other JWH product is more widely used in the US than JWH-18 and I have good reason to believe that JWH is the most prevelent addative to 'incense' products, at least the ones that are domestically produced.....the number of amateur produces alone following online 'how-to' instructions posted on various blogs dwarfs the number of major brands imported from overseas.....these upstarts are typically buying the most popular and and easy to obtain product that is also the cheapest with the most name recognition and demand....yeah, nobody is testing it, but it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to do otherwise.



What would be the incentive to use a different product and then lie about it? Its not going to save them any money. Its not any easier to get. Whats the point?

 

[Sentience]

JWH-018 is much less selective (with CB1 and CB2 binding afinity fairly similar), and is the most common JWH drug.

Yes, I agree. It is the most common.

Mustafa said Black Mamba is made from a plant called Damiana which is then sprayed with JWH-018, a synthetic cannabinoid. It is not tobacco, so there are no real restrictions on who can or cannot buy Black Mamba, including age restrictions.

http://www.evri.com/media/article;j...jsessionid=1gj003k2ud530&referring_title=Evri

It contains a mix of chemicals on loose, generic plant material. Synthetic cannabinoids are the common ingredient.

The most prevalent is JWH-018, a new synthetic cannabinoid created by scientists to test receptor function in the lab

http://www.celebstoner.com/20100304...e-getting-high-on-synthetic-cannabinoids.html


I could probably find 100 sources that agree with me....It DOES seem to be by far the most prevalent canibinoid, and I have sources to back that up. Still, once I stated it was a judgment call that should have been the end of it. Why are you arguing about this?

 

[shephard89]

Sorry for the noobish post, but can anyone clarify what synthetic cannaboids are legal in the uk? not interested in blends as i dont really see the point of them...

 

[hx_]

Sorry for the noobish post, but can anyone clarify what synthetic cannaboids are legal in the uk? not interested in blends as i dont really see the point of them...

I'd be interested in this as well, ran out of my JWH-018 stash now almost 6 months after the ban. That gram lasted a long time!

 

[Coolio]

I think CP 55,940 is still legal in the UK.

 

[shepj]

So far -073 is my favorite (I have had -018, -073, and -081). I am trying to sample them all so I may compare and contrast them eventually.

btw:

AM-694 and AM-1241 are on the market now.. they aren't on the poll.

 

[fryingsquirrel]

Too expensive to produce when compared to the natural source of the drug (and if there was a demand for THC in a fairly pure form at the moment, people would be doing THC extracions with plant material on a commercial scale). The 5-alkylresorcinols are quite expansive to use as precursors, preventing much interest in other THC analogues getting started

Rare indeed to prove F&B wrong, but turns out they are cheap as dirt and much in demand.

 

[greenmeanies]

Without discussing vendors, a new cannabinoid called "WIN FX" has showed up on the market, probably the same intentional misdirection to prevent another compound getting the swift governmental ban. of course, according to Wiki the WIN series is very similar to the JWH series (aminoalkylindole family), but the image that the vendor is using is quite obviously an exact model of the very illegal THC (lol)

personally i doubt there's any bit of truth in it, it's likely just a mixture of existing JWH compounds sold under a different name to capitalize on the market. in the interest of harm reduction i MUST recommend that NOBODY purchase these shady compounds that have no IUPAC name attached to them!

 

[suburbantoker]

I'm looking for some more info on this "WIN FX" as well... Very interested to try it out.

Thinking about purchasing, and letting people know.

 

[RevengeOfLime]

Win FX

I have received a free sample of this supposed synthetic cannabinoid. For safteys sake i will not be taking this chemical due to being on probation and fear of pee test failure. *snip*

 

[Shambles]

Had to edit your post as that would count as sourcing and sourcing of any drugs - legal or otherwise - is strictly forbidden on BL either publicly or via PM.

Other than that, welcome to PD and BL

 

[RevengeOfLime]

I apologize I was just trying for saftys sake to figure out this chemical that many others are clueless over. Sorry, I should have realized that sending a chem to sombody would count as sourcing. I apologize, I misspoke. *edit* if anyone has any suggested information on how i may test the win fx chemical i would love to hear it. thanks

 

[LysergicEpiphany]

A Night Of Many Thought's

I trust you've never seen your surrounding melt around you and vomit from the intensity, then.
I have.
It's psychedelic aiight .

Thats more like it! I myself am also a daily smoker of many years now, and i am also led to beleive cannabis has profoundly psychedelic properties To cut the story short, i bought a mixture for 14 Betty Crockers Cookies, Stuck 14 grams of pollen and the neccessary amount of butter for the thc to dissolve (cant remember the ratio i used, i read my shit up though) in the mix. I ate 8 and my friend R ate the other 6, I cannot remember much of that night apart from the walls morphing as when im on shrooms or lucy, a hella lot of family guy, and 23 hours spent in my bed Alsoo a very interesting piss, i remember very clear auditory hallucinations and the walls were bent over above me similar to a deep ketamine experience. Hope somebody enjoyed this little story, i definately did. Peace.

 

[LysergicEpiphany]

Underlying Beauty

Pharmacologically, pot is a CB1 agonist.

IMO, just because something is not a 5-HT2A agonist doesn't mean it's not psychedelic. Ketamine and salvia are amazing psychs, yet K acts as a NMDA antagonist, and Salvia, a kappa-opioid agonist.

Youkai: The intense experiences i've had from pot have been smoked, not eaten (and which matched the intensity of a high-dose mushroom trip). I anticipate eating could be even more intense (which scares me, haha).

I have had some amazing CEV's obtained by smoking cannabis, Especially when listening to music on my own, its just the level to which this magical herb expands your mind As for OEV's more illusionary effets, But now i only find this possible if i smoke a lot of weed shortly before bed time and slighly sleep deprive my self Oh what i do to achieve my states of consciousness haha.

 

[the_oatster]

so does anyone have any info on this new win fx compound? I see lots of people wisely not stepping up to the plate to take this one down, but has anyone actually tried it? Speaking with the vendor they do claim that it is in fact a win compound, and not a conglomeration of jwh's. Although they refused to state specifically what it was, they made it pretty clear that there aren't alot of win compounds out there and they aren't trying to reinvent the wheel, kinda pointing to it being nothing more then win 55,212. Does anyone have anything to support/deny that claim? I like the idea of a free sample, but free doesnt help if it ends up being some form of super ricin or something. Any reccommendations on what else I should try to get out of the vendor? I'd really like to be able to post a report as to the effects later tomorrow, but Id need to get a fair amount of clarification in the next 6 hours or so, that way I can place the order in time to get it tomorrow.
-oatmeal