The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread

[DOB]

thanks ^

 

[BiG StroOnZ]

Didn't want to bump the thread, but figured the query would be worthwhile:

I know of a Piracetam user from another forum who has been insufflating up to 2 grams of Piracetam daily and I would like to hear peoples' opinions on the matter. I personally discouraged this, because I see no reason to rail a nootropic in general, nevertheless one that works just fine orally.

Any idea of possible dangers, or contradictions with doing this - besides the obvious issue of snorting supplements?

 

[Solipsis]

I don't see any special kind of danger, but as you say it's quite pointless!
2 grams a day in your nose? Gross, man... that can not be good for your nose.

I have a question as well:
Usually I take choline in the form of the citrate, especially as an addition to piracetam. It is said to prevent any headaches you might otherwise get or a type of crash possible after doses higher than I have ever taken (like > 3 grams up to 7 or something).
Huperzine A is a nootropic that is said to be an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, so a sort of MAOI but for acetylcholine rather than monoamine neurotransmitters.

Am I right to see a danger in fucking with your acetylcholine levels that way especially if one is taking supplemental choline? I really wonder about the risks of destabilizing your metabolism and blood levels. My guess is that supplementing is fine but huperzine is not, at least it doesn't seem worth the modest benefit I consider it to have in theory.

Also, vinpocetine seems like another nootropic not worth taking, but I can't remember the reasons right now. I just read about peoples reactions that were kind of scary. So that is another one I'd like your opinion on.

My phenibut is just about used up and I have not ordered more. It's because I now ordered nootropics from another source that doesn't carry it and I think its wise to take a break and leave my GABA to recuperate. Though there is L-theanine in the stack I ordered as an addition, I consider theanine to be safe and much less dangerous/harmful than phenibut. It's effects are fantastic though!
The rest of my stack addition is Bacopa Monnieri (tried once, kinda strange result), Phosphatidylserine (read marvellous things about health benefits) and one or two other things.

 

[MeDieViL]

I'm planning on taking deprenyl once weekly for prevention of neurotoxiticy of methylone and other substances.

The question is, did anyone notice that once a week dosing of deprenyl had a big impact on phenethylamines the next week? (I know MAO would be inhibited for 2 weeks, but on the other hand weekly doses would have alot less of an impact then daily doses).

 

[jws21ut]

Additions to Stack and Interactions with Hallucinogens.

I am on a weekday regimen of the following nootropics:

Piracetam 800mg
Centrophenoxine 250mg
Hydergine 4.5mg
Vinpocetine 5mp
Alpha Lipoic Acid 100mg

I plan to take some 2C-E or San Pedro at some point in the near future and was wondering if I would have any issues. I looked and all of these seem to have short half-lives so I don't think it would pose any issue to take my usual Friday morning dose and then take 2C-E or San Pedro at least 24 hours after.

Please let me know if anyone has thoughts to the contrary.

Additionally, I have Pyritinol (100mg) and Deprenyl (5mg) that I have yet to start taking. I have read that Deprenyl might cause some interactions and although it has a short half-lfie can have long lasting effects on the brain. I am wondering if adding these to my weekday stack poses any problem with the use of Tryptamines or Phenethylamines.

 

[Delsyd]

Check out this thread regarding PEA's and deprenyl

Deprenyl + phenethylamines alert!

 

[Solipsis]

Just got my DMAE, L-theanine ( ), Bacopa and Phosphatidylserine
Will update

 

[jws21ut]

Check out this thread regarding PEA's and deprenyl

Deprenyl + phenethylamines alert!

Thanks, this is the exact reason I have been holding of on taking the Deprenyl.

Is there anything I should be worried about with regard to adding Pyritinol to my stack if I plan to be taking both Tryptamines and/or Phenethylamines in the near future?

I typically just don't take my Piracetam, Centrophenoxine, Hydergine, Vinpocetine and Alpha Lipoic Acid the morning I plan to take psychedelics and don't have any problems.

Could I do the same thing with Pyritinol or can there be similar concerns as Deprenyl?

 

[C8H10N4O2]

This thread is just full of information. My head is swimming with supplement names right now. Admittedly, I'm a bit confused and every page I read leaves me with more confusion about choline supplements.

What's the difference between straight up choline (in the forms of choline citrate, bitartrate, etc.) and other supplements like Alpha-GPC, DMAE, Lecithin, etc.? Which is the better supplement to take? I am seeing stacks with multiple choline supplements in this thread, and am wondering what benefits that brings.

I was taking 3g Piracetam for two weeks and enjoyed the effects, but was advised in another thread to supplement it with choline. However, there are so many forms out there, I don't know where to start.

Advice?

 

[DOB]

This thread is just full of information. My head is swimming with supplement names right now. Admittedly, I'm a bit confused and every page I read leaves me with more confusion about choline supplements.

What's the difference between straight up choline (in the forms of choline citrate, bitartrate, etc.) and other supplements like Alpha-GPC, DMAE, Lecithin, etc.? Which is the better supplement to take? I am seeing stacks with multiple choline supplements in this thread, and am wondering what benefits that brings.

I was taking 3g Piracetam for two weeks and enjoyed the effects, but was advised in another thread to supplement it with choline. However, there are so many forms out there, I don't know where to start.

Advice?

Lecithin works very good,didnt tried other ones

 

[weevil]

I tried L-theanine for a little while hoping it might help with my anxiety but didn't notice anything. I'd hope that taking it for a month would be long enough?

I'm starting to take piracetam again, been advised on a subforum to keep the dose low because I'm on tricyclics. I'll be taking choline with it as well, I used to do that before as well when not on any meds.

 

[General Patton]

I've been experimenting with different blends of supplements to combat my OCD/manic-depressive type thought loops. I looked up how Lithium works via increasing levels of GABA and inositiol in the brain and thought. Hell, why put up with toxicity and muscle spasms, I'll just go straight to the source and see if I can supplement those amino acids and nutrience directly. The results with a combination of inositol, l-glutamine and GABA have been pretty good, although obviously not as dramatic as a strong medication like lithium. However, I have experienced a vastly improved mood/outlook with little side effects to boot. Plus I can still trip, YAY!

I started off back in December with 1250mg of inositol and 500mg of GABA daily. This worked moderately well but after a short period of experimentation with Gabapentin I had to admit that GABA itself doesn't penetrate the blood-brain barrier very well. It however IS good for relaxing muscles and building up their tone, which was badly needed at the time. I ended up increasing the inositol to ~2500mg daily in January, which was hard considering the amount of tablets I needed to consume. So after going through several bottles in a month, I finally got myself some pure inositol powder and made 500mg gelcaps with a b-vitamin filling. This made absorption quicker and greatly reduced the number of pills I had to pop daily, which was approaching 2 dozen!

Here's the stack I've settled on:

Morning:
-1 Centrum basic multi-vitamin
-1 B-50 pill
-1 tspn high DHA fish oil
-1 capsule of digestive enzymes

Rest of the day, approximate times:

~3:00pm: - 1 gelcap containing both 500mg inositol and half a standard b-vitamin
~5:00pm: - 500mg l-glutamine
~6:00pm: - Another inositol/B-vit capsule +
-125mg GABA
-1-2 capsules of digestive enzymes with a meal
~9:00pm: - Another inositol capsule
~10:00pm: -500mg l-glutamine
~12:00am: -Last capsule of the day + another 125mg GABA

Daily this is 2250mg inositol and 250mg choline (there's small amounts of both in the B-vitamins as well as l-glutamine tablets) with 1000mg l-glutamine and 250mg GABA. I have to take the extra B-vitamins and digestive enzymes due to my gluten intolerance, B-vitamins help inositol and GABA/glutamine absorb too. Glutamine also works to maintain gut barrier, which is very important for those with food intolerances.If I feel like I need any more inositol due to feeling particularly anxious or panicky, I just dissolve 250mg-500mg in water and drink it. I've been doing this during class lately and I seem to be able to focus better, it's an interesting experiment! Plus you can feel all suave knowing that your drink is spiked with smart drugs-It even tastes slightly sweet, how about that eh?

The other things I've tried for the same issues are 5-HTP, ALA and l-theanine, I stopped taking them frequently and in high doses for different reasons. I felt like I had a fast heartbeat with 5-HTP, and since GABA is known to cause the opposite, I decided not to combine the two at high levels. The ALA just caused too many issues with stomach acid and indigestion-type feelings. I deal with these already due to food intolerances, but I still take some if I feel good. L-theanine also caused some gastric upset, I suspect due to the high levels of tea polyphenols in the capsules I had. It also gave me some minor muscle tremors/tightness, so I decided it'd be healthier to get it in smaller amounts from green tea during the day. I actually have some free-form l-5-HTP that I'll be trying again, in a more measured fashion. Thanks for reading, peace!

 

[Amberthefrog]

I started taking nootropics about two weeks ago and have so far been well impressed. Unfortunately, my piracetam still hasn't shown up - the plus side of this has been that I've had chance to explore DMAE and alpha GPC (to be honest I wasn't really expecting much from these by themselves...so wrong!).

So my stack at the moment is:

Morning

1 cup of green tea and/or 1 mug of black coffee. (further brews later on; tea, green tea, coffee)
120 mg Gingko biloba
1 Garlic extract cap
200 mg DMAE
500 mg alpha GPC
B-vit complex that also contains:-
* 45 mg Vit C
* 75 mg Magnesium
* 25 mg Alpha lipoic acid
* 5 mg CE Q10
* 20 mug Chromium
* 125 mg l-Carnitine
* 50 mg l-Glutamine
1 tea spoon of fish oil:-
* 2300 mg DHA and EPA combined
* 5 mug Vit D
* 10 mg Vit E

Afternoon

60 mg Gingko biloba

I also take a multi vit + multi min every 1-3 days and have for the past two weeks been taking 400-3500 mg Phenibut every 1-3 days.

It's worth noting that the multi, garlic and beverages have been on the go for much longer - the rest is new. Actually I've been taking Omega 3 for ages to, but I would forget to drop them often and dose would typically be 1-2 gel caps that been them had less than 500 mg of DHA and EPA.

The first thing I added was the Gingko; I was expecting very little from it and had never tried it before. First drop was 30 mg and it affected me strongly, in fact the first three times the stuff seemed to hit me so hard, the effects were visible to others! 20, 60, 120 mg were my first doses. Each time I would begin to feel a mood lift, lightness of body and end up lighthearted humorous state where many things became hilarious. These effects quickly began to reduce, but it still does good things to my day long mood I feel. No actual nootropic effects noted. By extremities feel very nice on Gingko and the cold doesn't bite as much (probably affects you would expect a lot more than the aforementioned ones!). Gingko feels healthy to me.

Phenibut seems to be a very nice tool to have around. I was a bit hesitant to get it really, it struck me as something I could probably develop and unhealthy taste for. I still see the risk there but am surprised by how lacking it seems in the moreish department, despite very nice effects. I can't say I've really found it to enhance my daily mood much if taken in the morning, however when taken in the evening or before bed it's truly wonderful stuff. I've always had a pretty good sleeping pattern, so I imagine others who don't would appreciate this even more than I do. Phenibut sleep is incredibly satisfying, deep, refreshing, full of vivid and introspective dream and above all makes the next day real good. Phenibut makes my body feel lush sometimes; it combines well with the gingko to produce warm relaxation throughout me At doses over 3g, it feels pretty pointless. The niceness increase cuts off and some mild but annoying side effects rear their heads; swimming vision, paradoxical insomnia and impaired motor co-ordination.
I've read peoples reports of aching joints at high doses, this hasn't afflicted me but I did notice this feeling for the first 3 or so hours, the first few times I took it.

A bit of stupidity on my part; Phenibut and alcohol is a no-no. If I drink whilst on the stuff, bad things start to happen. It doesn't make me sleepy and I don't get any hints of passing out, shallow breathing or anything at all like that. The combination actually makes me feel awake, energetic...sounds great, but coupled with this is complete and utter destruction of my inhibitions! The last time I made this mistake, the result was me setting a fire alarm off in my uni dorm at 3 am. Bad times ^^ Not be repeated.

The b-vit complex has REALLY impressed me. I've taken them before, but never with alpha L.A., glutamine or (and I'm guessing this is the important bit) carnitine. It's also worth noting that I barely ever eat red meat and feel that my diet is probs low in carnitine. The affect I've felt here, hasn't be nootropic - what it has done is made my physical energy levels rise a great amount. I'm just getting back into a running regime, my cardiovasular has a few weeks of work ahead of it before this become easy in that department, but since the complex was started my legs feel powerful and light - even after running 5 miles or so, distances I haven't done regularly for a fair time.

The final and most impressive thing is the DMAE. If I take it with my stack, in the morning and then put my mind to work doing something during the day, cognitive function is clearly enhanced. Ideas in my mind flow faster, connect better, concentration is improved, motivation is improved, hand writing is improved, verbal skills go up - my speech sometimes flows brillantly on DMAE. Most noticeably, I find my brain thinking about everyday things in a much more methodical manner than ever before. I sat an exam yesterday on it, it reminded me a lot of sitting an exam on amphetamines. Unfortunately, I'm already starting to notice a subtle drop of in these effects, even after just two weeks

Oh and one final thing, the second time I took the DMAE my mind was racing so much I couldn't get to sleep (despite taking it in the morning). To combat this I took about 1g of phenibut and smoked a spliff. I respond very well to most substances; I generally get all of the desirable effects and I tend to get it very easy on the negative side (especially with stimulant comedowns which I barely feel at all 90% of the time). The one drug that I've always had problems appreciating as well as others if good 'ol cannabis. I don't have any anxiety problems in my day-to-day life, but when I smoke weed in large groups social anxiety rears it's head. I never feel paranoid on weed, but I do feel some pretty debilitating anxiety on occasion. I also get monged very easily - if I smoke regularly I don't really develop a resistance to it, the affects just get progressively more negative. The most gutting thing about weed for me is that I've hardly ever been able to glean anything from it in terms of useful mental effects. 95% of the time, it doesn't improve my artistic/creative side in anyway, shape or form. Well the spliff I had that night on DMAE changed my entire outlook on weed. Creativity started to flow like a tangible liquid, my cognition was still intact - in fact it felt like the combo improved it further. I didn't get monged at all, it made me perky and social. The creative add on to my thoughts was a first time thing for me, despite smoking weed for 6 years! It also made my body feel brilliant and gave me very vibrant open-eye patterning. One of the best spliffs I've ever had!


I'm going to largely drop the DMAE when piracetam arrives. I'm also going to spread the omega 3 out across the day. So far so good, I'm very impressed

 

[General Patton]

To update on my progress, I found the L-5-HTP to have the same side effects as last time, and I've switched over to 200mg ALA daily instead. I feel like ALA is a bit more subtle in how it brightens mood, and my gut has healed a little thanks to the l-glutamine so I'm OK there. I also added lecithin, took my first 1200mg cap about a half hour ago... I'm exited to hear the sonic benefits that DOB was talking about, since I'm a bit of a mad junglist myself :D I'll give your mix a listen over the weekend, once I get a bit more acetylcholine flowing through the old brain.

 

[ikkyu]

This thread is just full of information. My head is swimming with supplement names right now. Admittedly, I'm a bit confused and every page I read leaves me with more confusion about choline supplements.

What's the difference between straight up choline (in the forms of choline citrate, bitartrate, etc.) and other supplements like Alpha-GPC, DMAE, Lecithin, etc.? Which is the better supplement to take? I am seeing stacks with multiple choline supplements in this thread, and am wondering what benefits that brings.

I was taking 3g Piracetam for two weeks and enjoyed the effects, but was advised in another thread to supplement it with choline. However, there are so many forms out there, I don't know where to start.

Advice?

You can start with straight choline or lecithin (probably the better of the two since it's from a food source) capsules, or even just eat a couple of eggs every day. The only other choline supplement I've tried is DMAE, which gave a long-lasting stimulation that would result in headaches if I took it more than once a week. But all at once I know someone who feels nothing from DMAE, so YMMV.

 

[Mr. Tambourine Man]

I'm curious if anyone has had a similar experience to mine regarding Vinpocetine (I'd post in the Vinpocetine Megathread, but its locked unfortunately).

I've recently started taking a nootropic regimen of Ginko and 20-30mg Vinpocetine daily (with Piracetam every other day, or so). What I noticed when I first started taking Vinpocetine by itself (in doses of 30 mg and above) it produced a strong and unmistakable stimulation with mood lift equivalent to a small dose of methylphenidate or amphetamines. With multiple 20+ mg doses spaced over a day (and with a little caffeine and Piracetam) I would go so far as to say that there is a mild but unmistakable body high very reminiscent of amphetamines.

During this time, concentration and focus are greatly increased. Also, the more memory-enhancing effects usually don't occur until after those stimualtion has worn off, which takes anywhere from 2-3 hours. Has anyone else been affected by Vinpocetine in a similar way?

After taking this stuff on and off for a while, I feel this is the most immediately useful nootropic I have ever run across.

 

[Xorkoth]

Nope, can't say that I have. I haven't tried using it in over two years though. I should still have mine somewhere... I ordered a gram of powder and used like 20mg total. That was back when I was using hydergine though, and I felt like they didn't want to be in my brain at the same time, and hydergine had a wonderful effect on me at that point in my life.

 

[Chips]

I'm currently trying vinpocetine.
It will be on the top list of the best nootrop i tried, with centrophenoxine and piracetam.

it give a clear awake feeling without jitter unlike centrophenoxine, and it improve thinking quite a lot.

Very good after amph session...

 

[CRICKETBEE]

Is Hydergine Dangerous?

I got my hydergine today and I had been very excited about it. But I have read a few posts and an article somewhere that mentioned that it might

1. cause eventual depression due to anticholergenic (sp?) properties

2. is NOT to be combined safely with PD's

3. may cause permanent brain changes (a la deprynl) (selegiline)

"In normal clinical doses selegiline is a selective *irreversible* MAO-B inhibitor, however in larger doses it loses its specificity and also inhibits MAO-A"

SCARY


anyway,

I WAS very excited to try an ergot-based nootropic as i thought it might provide some of the sharpness and clarity of acid but these rumours and posts worry me a bit


any info appreciated, pro or con

thanks!

 

[Jamshyd]

Where did you hear about hydergine being anticholinergic?

IME, Hydergine is as safe as safe can be. I took it for a very long time with combinations with many drugs (namely: Tianeptine, Ketamine, and Tramadol) and had only good results.