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The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread

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You get name brand Provigil or some generic? And how cheaply? I recall it being ungodly expensive 4 years ago. I'd recommend one only take Provigil occasionally. When I used it daily for months it totally losed effectiveness.

If too high a dose of stimulants like Provigil gets you jittery just take some Taurine, Niacinamide and L-Theanine to get your brain pumping out GABA to chill you out.

Know anything about how Bromocriptine and Nicergoline compare to Hydergine effects wise? What brands of Hydergine have you tried? No one seems to be able to tell me whether Hydergine would absorb well by the nasal or rectal route. I used most of mine sublingually.

It's interesting that though Hydergine and LSA's are both Ergolines the former is vasodilating and the latter vasoconstricting. I preloaded on a lot of Hydergine before my last 2 LSA trips and they were both powerful trips though I was on so many other nootropics, supplements and euphoric substances that it was impossible for me to know how much of the potentiation was Hydergine related. I continue to have nothing but positive results from using Piracetam to smooth out, focus and potentiate tryptamine psychedelics.

I think you should give Rhodiola another shot, Xorkoth. It's so affordable and side effect free and can really help lift fatigue, depression, stress, anxiety, sickness, etc. Try the 3% Rosavin powder from a certain popular health drug vendor. You'll prob. notice best results from daily use of it rather than just taking a dose now and then. I really like how it synergizes with Piracetam.


I'm going to order Centrophenoxine once i can find it for cheap enough. I considered Vinpocetine but so many people say it's subtle or worthless and few people praise it. Sulbutiamine would be worth my while?
 
Can anyone suggest which of these might be useful to treat ADD (not ADHD) in someone who stopped meds after tiring of long term amphetamine treatment?

Provigil seems like it might have potential--but I'd rather find something that isn't a stimulant. Stimulant effects just haven't ever seemed appropriate to my symptoms.

Can anyone tell me if some of the classic nootropics discussed in this thread (like Piracetam and Hydergine) might be helpful? (Or if there's a thread on this somewhere, please feel free to point me towards it.)

Rhodiola also sounds interesting, if I were to give the stimulants another try. The docs that push the stims are always unwilling to write scripts for anything to treat the anxiety, fatigue, depression, etc. that can accompany amphetamine treatment. Cause that stuff is easily abused, doncha know. (And amp spansules aren't?)

I've been reading about these drugs since the mid 90's, and have always thought they might be helpful to me, but have never attempted to make use of them. Any suggestions are welcome. Reading the thread was informative, but left me a bit at sea.
 
I definitely have ADD, and especially lack in motivation.. I first starting taking fish oils three weeks ago (mostly three a day - generic GNC 180 EPA/120 DHA) , and started taking piracetam and choline last week. I haven't really been able to get a good feel for anything because I started a shitty landscaping labor job that has made my life into work, eat, and sleep. But there have been some motivational things were I've just naturally done something that needed to be done instead of putting it off. So I think there has definitely been some benefit, and will continue to experiment.
 
steppingrazor said:
Can anyone suggest which of these might be useful to treat ADD (not ADHD) in someone who stopped meds after tiring of long term amphetamine treatment?

I've been reading about these drugs since the mid 90's, and have always thought they might be helpful to me, but have never attempted to make use of them. Any suggestions are welcome. Reading the thread was informative, but left me a bit at sea.
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non-amphetamine alternatives for ADD are the reason i first got interested in nootropics, ive tried practically every available treatment - both prescription (provigil, dextroamphetamine, adderal, methylphenidate, strattera) and non (piracetam, hydergeine, selegiline, vasopressin, vincopetine, idebanone, DL-phenylalinine, choline, rhodiola, and fish oil) the perscription ones i liked were methylphenidate and strattera, strattera actually works better than everything else but it makes me feel like a zombie, its a really awful drug which somehow get the job done. provigil made me a bit aggressive if i took it at too high a dose or too frequently. rhodiola is not psychoactive in my opinion. selegiline is a wonderful social enhancer but unfortunatly did little to help me get my work done, here is my current ADD stack.

16mg concerta (4 days a week)
10mg strattera (4 days a week)
1gram Piracetam (5 days a week)
1gram Choline (5 days a week)
plus fish oil and a yerba mate daily
 
Yeah, I tried Stattera once and had a terrible reaction to it. Blood pressure spiked through the roof, body temperature fluctuation, feelings of extreme distress.

I'll look into the others you guys mentioned, thanks.
 
The Wizard said:
You get name brand Provigil or some generic? And how cheaply? I recall it being ungodly expensive 4 years ago. I'd recommend one only take Provigil occasionally. When I used it daily for months it totally losed effectiveness.
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Brand name... I don't think there are any generics in the US. I pay $25 for a prescription because of my insurance. But it's over $9 per 200mg pill otherwise... utterly ludicrous.
 
I hate DMAE. Except for hangovers. Even small dosages effect me. I get very introverted and depressed from them. I don't want to do anything but stare the wall. Social interactions feel like i'm completely stoned (not in a fun way). But I guess that I've got a naturally high acetycholine level.

Have to experiment with racetams to get the levels down when needed...

I've got some soy lecithin extract which feels diffrent. Or the name was phospatidylcholine, it seems that it is the same stuff. Once I had over 15 g with youghurt (the recommended dose is 0.6g) and the top of my head started to tingle and I felt very light without depressed feeling. A little like smoking a strong cigarette (without tolerance) minus the toxic symptoms, lethargy and brain fog. Does soy lecithin extracts generally contain estrogen. If they do I'll quit that supplement.
 
That's an odd reaction, as acetylcholine is tied with quite the opposite type of effect. Quite strange. What other kinds of supplements do you take?

Lecithin does not contain anything estrogen-like as far as I know. Psophaditylcholine is one of the things that lecithin is made up of, as well as phosphaditylserine and some fatty acids.
 
estrogen in men is synthesized from testosterone (aromatized through an enzymatic reaction). NOt sure of females. But I know for certain soy lecithin (which is really just concentrated soy oil) does NOT contain estrogen. It would not be active even if it did.
 
Xorkoth said:
That's an odd reaction, as acetylcholine is tied with quite the opposite type of effect. Quite strange. What other kinds of supplements do you take?
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I don't understand. Do you mean the acetylcholine effects the opposite of the depressed feeling I get from DMAE or the tingly nicotine like feeling I get from Lecithin? I've been under the impression that too much acetycholine causes introversion... More like being an autistic. Lecithin in huge doses feels completly diffrent than DMAE but I haven't ever tried a huge dose of DMAE. I guess it would be very unpleasant. Seems like lecithin affects the brain much diffrently than a proper choline supplement.

I've got asperger's syndrome and I've heard that it causes the brain to generate much more acetylcholine. So next I'm going to experiment with racetams to get the level down to a normal level (whenever needed).

My previus supplement capsules have:
Gingo Biloda 0,2g (can't feel it but seems healthy)
L-Pyroglutamic Acid 0,7g (some cheap racetam thing)
DMAE (0,1g) (thought it to be useful because people say you must combine racetams with choline supplements and lecithin didn't fit in and it's easier to take only one capsule)

I've also got Oxiracetam (don't really feel a thing but haven't tested properly. Usually use it with speed etc. to get rid of the confusion) and Rhodiola Rosea. Rhodiola is great and makes my mood a little more positive.

I'll test now 0,5g oxiracetam without choline and up the dose until I feel uncomfortable. I'd like to achieve a effect where my thoughts aren't as strong and important (but still working when needed) and I can just experience and feel stuff without analyzing and thinking about everything. And without being fucked up.
 
^ What are your goals exactly for supplementing with these chemicals? We can probably better help you after we know that.

If you don't want to think analytically, then I'm not sure racetams are for you. Myself and others I have given them to find that this is the number one positive effect, it makes your thoughts speed up and become much more analytical. It opens up your conceptual web and allows creative connections between ideas to flow more easily.
 
My current goal is to lower my choline levels so that my mind isn't in my way as much. Thinking less in my head and directing my attention towards what is happening outside my head. I like to have a sharp and calculating mind. But I don't like to live in my mind and it gets draining to think and think without any fresh input.

So my idea goes like this: Choline causes me to have deep trance like thoughts and closes me from the outside. Racetams eat up choline and give extra mental clarity. So I quit choline supplements and take the right (?) amount of racetams to remove the useless extra choline I've got naturally.

Todays experiment has been good. I feel much brighter taking around 1,2g of Oxiracetam without any other supplements. Feels like I'm more in control and awake.
 
where did you get the idea that racetams eat up choline?

The choline axis is pretty complicated in its action. It isn't as simple as simply adding piracetam or minusing choline donation.

Incidentally, do you exercise and also how is your diet? These are important factors.
 
As far as I know the -racetams do not lower choline levels. It's important to have plenty of choline floating around when you use them, however. And the -racetams certainly will not slow your thoughts down and get you thinking less analytically... in fact the reason people use them is to speed up the thoughts and think more analytically. That's why I use them.

Also, oxiracetam is fine, but I like piracetam better. Plus it's much cheaper. :)
 
I will add also my eyes become dilated on piracetam now. I think this is because elevated levels of acetylcholine are present in my brain. Could this follow, phsyiologically from somebody that knows?

I feel very stimulated on it sometimes. Other times, not so much (its somewhat hit or miss).
 
my friend told me to take 8 of these 800mg capsules of piracetam...thats like 6.4g a day for 3 days...then my brain exploded

i do 800-1600mg ever 1-2 days now and having that 3 day piracetam mindfuck really lets you know when its in your system and how to control the power
 
^^ By the way, if you're buying piracetam pills (probably Nootropil) you're getting horrendously ripped off. I mean you're paying 20-25 times more than you need to be. Bulk powder is the way to go... it works better too.

Just FYI. ;)
 
I liked the effects of Oxiracetam without choline supplement today. Other people noticed a diffrence also in me. I spoke much faster and words came easier and more clearly. I've been doing stuff all day and haven't felt foggy at all. Definetly diffrent than with DMAE. It sucks that I automatically supposed that a choline supplement is needed with racetams even though they clearly don't fit with my mind. Didn't even test without anything until now.

I don't mind analytical thoughts unless they are too strong, forced and introverted and cover all my feelings etc. in which case I get easily confused. But I love being able to think clearly and to remember things when needed etc. Oxiracetam seemed to work with that great. My eyes are wide open rather than wide shut. I just wish I could get some sleep... It feels impossible and I've got an exam tomorrow morning :(

I'd still like to experiment with lowering my choline levels if racetams don't do it. Any ideas with what?
 
Just wanted to warn you guys to not do too high a dose of DMAE. Do no more than 2-350 mg. Higher doses are counterproductive and will just have more side effects.
 
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