The Big & Dandy Natural vs. Chemical / Synthetic Psychedelics Thread
- Thread starter Cpt.Caveman
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morninggloryseed said:
i completely agree.
A psychedelic is a psychedelic no matter where it came from. And in each group (synthetic and organic) there are the ones that people tend to enjoy and those that cause a bad reaction.
but if i had to choose:
u cant make me
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Creakle said:
I've been living in society since I was born. I don't recall ever being encouraged to "compartmentalize" my thinking. Reality/life is what you make of it. The information is out there. It is up to each of us to make use of it, and think outside of the box if that is what we choose.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Well, y'know the human brain works by recognizing patterns, and to be able to recognize patterns you have to classify them to allow recall, & comparison so it's not so much an overt push to compatmentalize/analyse & classify things, it's just inherent in the way that our brains work
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Yeah I know, graduated with a psychology and sociology degree. I just don't like the way the statement rubbed me.....just tired of the "I hate society, everything is bad" crowd.
Creakle
Ex-Bluelighter
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of course, it's impossible that 4 years studying under the auspices of the psychiatric education system actually CHANGED your way of thinking in anyway. no, you're a free spirit, and you don't "recall" being conditioned to do anything so it's impossible that it happened!
bickoma
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2005
- Messages
- 625
fastandbulbous said:
What I meant by my post is, that every time you grow a batch of Cubensis, you know it's P. Cubensis. When you synthesize a batch of LSD or mescaline, the process doesn't *always* go right ( neither does the Earth, but I'm willing to put money that the Earth has a lower percentage of mess-ups ) every time.
This is most likely why natural products are percieved to be safer. Some hippies only eat what grows, and stay away from the synthetic drugs.
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
For those of you quoting McKenna as an authority: Always remember that he doesn't like mescaline because it is an amphetamine.
All your mushroom are belong to us!
All your mushroom are belong to us!
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Mr Creakle...as pointed out to fastandbulbous…What I said was not in response to the actual statement you made.
Rather, I was responding to (what I construe to be) an angry, disgruntled tone I feel you have been presenting in this particular thread, since I first stated noticing your posts the other day.
In truth, I made assumptions about your personality based on a few posts you made here, and that is a flaw on my part. Part of being human I guess. Passing judgments... We all do it.
Like right here. You are so (seemingly) angry and quick to pass judgment, you didn’t even bother to read what he said. If you had, you would have realized he was quoting someone else who made that mistake. Moreover, in searching your posts, I noticed a few other occasions you did that. Slow down friend!
From this statement, it sounds like you believe there is almost some sort of conspiracy out there on the part of “society” to make individuals think a certain way. Maybe that is not at all what you meant, but either way, I tend to side more on the side of fastandbulbous in that the way “we” think is more a result of the human mind itself, and the natural outcome of a mind washed into the world of symbols and data. In addition, society is a natural evolution upon itself and the human mind (whatever that means). Either way, I don't feel "society" encouraged me to think in a compartmentalized fashion...but then I will also bet we all have a different version of what "compartmentalized thinking" really is.
There is no reason to jump to insults. I thought psychedelics were supposed to make people more tolerant, and open-minded. Look, I’ll admit something very silly. I actually care about my reputation at Bluelight!@?%!!!!! Yes folks. If that is sad, then so be it. I’ve been lurking since 1999, and posting for almost six years now. Besides time invested, I’ve met a few interesting acquaintances, a good friend, and my girlfriend of almost three years now. I’m not about to lie about my credentials and background just to make a point to someone like you. I've also had enough people tell me that they value what I say here, and they have found my words helpful to them. And that is important to me, and so is my reputation here. If that is silly, then it's silly. But it really is how I feel.
I took six years to graduate, I was only a full-time student my last year. Beyond that, I wonder if you are having a manic episode or what because I actually can’t make sense of what you are trying to say here. Is this just complete sarcasm, or are you insinuating something because I sure have no idea. Nevertheless, relax and take the time to actually READ what people write, and learn to channel your anger into something positive. Try knitting.
Is this based on some idealized image of happy natives running through the tulips before the evil ‘white man’ appeared, or are you summarizing some studies you have seen correlating depression (or lack there of) in indigenous cultures? In what ways are “their” ways of life better than “ours?” Better in the sense of what you consider to be “good”? How do you know "they" are happier. And are these Old World psychedelic users, or New World? Can you explain yourself further in a more specific way?
Rather, I was responding to (what I construe to be) an angry, disgruntled tone I feel you have been presenting in this particular thread, since I first stated noticing your posts the other day.
In truth, I made assumptions about your personality based on a few posts you made here, and that is a flaw on my part. Part of being human I guess. Passing judgments... We all do it.
Like right here. You are so (seemingly) angry and quick to pass judgment, you didn’t even bother to read what he said. If you had, you would have realized he was quoting someone else who made that mistake. Moreover, in searching your posts, I noticed a few other occasions you did that. Slow down friend!
From this statement, it sounds like you believe there is almost some sort of conspiracy out there on the part of “society” to make individuals think a certain way. Maybe that is not at all what you meant, but either way, I tend to side more on the side of fastandbulbous in that the way “we” think is more a result of the human mind itself, and the natural outcome of a mind washed into the world of symbols and data. In addition, society is a natural evolution upon itself and the human mind (whatever that means). Either way, I don't feel "society" encouraged me to think in a compartmentalized fashion...but then I will also bet we all have a different version of what "compartmentalized thinking" really is.
There is no reason to jump to insults. I thought psychedelics were supposed to make people more tolerant, and open-minded. Look, I’ll admit something very silly. I actually care about my reputation at Bluelight!@?%!!!!! Yes folks. If that is sad, then so be it. I’ve been lurking since 1999, and posting for almost six years now. Besides time invested, I’ve met a few interesting acquaintances, a good friend, and my girlfriend of almost three years now. I’m not about to lie about my credentials and background just to make a point to someone like you. I've also had enough people tell me that they value what I say here, and they have found my words helpful to them. And that is important to me, and so is my reputation here. If that is silly, then it's silly. But it really is how I feel.
I took six years to graduate, I was only a full-time student my last year. Beyond that, I wonder if you are having a manic episode or what because I actually can’t make sense of what you are trying to say here. Is this just complete sarcasm, or are you insinuating something because I sure have no idea. Nevertheless, relax and take the time to actually READ what people write, and learn to channel your anger into something positive. Try knitting.
Is this based on some idealized image of happy natives running through the tulips before the evil ‘white man’ appeared, or are you summarizing some studies you have seen correlating depression (or lack there of) in indigenous cultures? In what ways are “their” ways of life better than “ours?” Better in the sense of what you consider to be “good”? How do you know "they" are happier. And are these Old World psychedelic users, or New World? Can you explain yourself further in a more specific way?
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fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
I think it's the time of year, everybodies starting to wake up after a long winter and seems to be getting their lines crossed; I know I am!
(and please, I didn't mean to offend anybody south of the equator, so don't be nasty - I'm feeling fragile...)
(and please, I didn't mean to offend anybody south of the equator, so don't be nasty - I'm feeling fragile...)
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Creakle said:
I'm sorry sir, I don't know what you're talking about. Mr. McKenna told me that Mescaline is an amphetamine!!
You Nordocentric pig!
Creakle
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
- Messages
- 616
Indeed, I forgot the strange metaphysical clique that is electronically generated by the vast Bluelight machine. I will never reach your status of education and mental refinement, Mr. Morninggloryseed 
But ah well, so be it.
I will note, however:
At first you take a bizarre stance of comradery and equality. Then you proceed to question my mental stability. Then, you start talking about your sensitivty to Bluelight sociality. Then, oddly enough, you start to trash me on my idea of natives and then, again, my emotional stability. Also, like many psychologists/psychiatrists you try to shrink me down with your fancy diagnoses. Well..... entertain me. That's what we're here for.
But ah well, so be it.
I will note, however:
At first you take a bizarre stance of comradery and equality. Then you proceed to question my mental stability. Then, you start talking about your sensitivty to Bluelight sociality. Then, oddly enough, you start to trash me on my idea of natives and then, again, my emotional stability. Also, like many psychologists/psychiatrists you try to shrink me down with your fancy diagnoses. Well..... entertain me. That's what we're here for.
swilow
Bluelight Crew
Chill out everyone!!!
^^^Wow, somethings gone wrong here . . . Isn't BLuelight about 'Harm Reduction", which is basically what I've been trying to come across with the whole time . . . The whole philosophical and then personalised ranting was really off topic.
This is it in simple words
:
From experience for several thousand years and more, humans have learned the difference between posonous/toxic plants/vegetables/fruits/insects etc etc. and things which are edible, tasty, valueable, healthy, friendly (pay homage tour beautiful Dogs and Cats here), beautiful and, of course- FUN/ENLIGHTENING/HELPFUL . . . We have 'filtered' out a lot of physically/ psychologically dangerous products of the world by not consuming them, and passing down the knoweldge that these things are either dangerous to 'taboo', and all in between those two factors... I guess you'd call it 'our survival instinct'.
I think a lot of 'shamanic' tribal existence very illumaintaing because, as did most cultures, achieve the above, to varying degress, including in this, the hallucinogens I've talked about. I think that by their years of use, they are deemed "safe", because of our survival instinct. That said, I wouldn't advise giving your kids "mushroom" omlette . . .
The fact that this The Pyschedelic Forum, I thought it interesing to raise the question as to whether the process of elimination and choosing that is natural in every species on the planet, also ocurred with hallucinogens in humans.
I think it did. And because of that, I think it is safer to trust in age old things, disciminately of course.
I've tried to word this carefully because a lot as been mentioned about words and what they mean and so on . . .
By organic, I meant substances completely uncreated and untreated by humans ( and don't dare anyone ention chewing or digesting the drugs I'm talking about ). Butter I would call "synthetic", cheese probably not ![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
By synthetic I mean things created (yes from nature) but brought forth by the hands and imaginations of humans. Including butter.
As best as I could put that. Chill, theres no battle- just a question on harm reduction . . .
Being a boring fellow, I think I'm going to listen to my eders and stay away from these new drugs.
Anyone else see it like that? ( scared at possible rant
).
Peace
^^^Wow, somethings gone wrong here . . . Isn't BLuelight about 'Harm Reduction", which is basically what I've been trying to come across with the whole time . . . The whole philosophical and then personalised ranting was really off topic.
This is it in simple words
:From experience for several thousand years and more, humans have learned the difference between posonous/toxic plants/vegetables/fruits/insects etc etc. and things which are edible, tasty, valueable, healthy, friendly (pay homage tour beautiful Dogs and Cats here), beautiful and, of course- FUN/ENLIGHTENING/HELPFUL . . . We have 'filtered' out a lot of physically/ psychologically dangerous products of the world by not consuming them, and passing down the knoweldge that these things are either dangerous to 'taboo', and all in between those two factors... I guess you'd call it 'our survival instinct'.
I think a lot of 'shamanic' tribal existence very illumaintaing because, as did most cultures, achieve the above, to varying degress, including in this, the hallucinogens I've talked about. I think that by their years of use, they are deemed "safe", because of our survival instinct. That said, I wouldn't advise giving your kids "mushroom" omlette . . .
The fact that this The Pyschedelic Forum, I thought it interesing to raise the question as to whether the process of elimination and choosing that is natural in every species on the planet, also ocurred with hallucinogens in humans.
I think it did. And because of that, I think it is safer to trust in age old things, disciminately of course.
I've tried to word this carefully because a lot as been mentioned about words and what they mean and so on . . .
By organic, I meant substances completely uncreated and untreated by humans ( and don't dare anyone ention chewing or digesting the drugs I'm talking about
). Butter I would call "synthetic", cheese probably not By synthetic I mean things created (yes from nature) but brought forth by the hands and imaginations of humans. Including butter.
As best as I could put that. Chill, theres no battle- just a question on harm reduction . . .
Being a boring fellow, I think I'm going to listen to my eders and stay away from these new drugs.
Anyone else see it like that? ( scared at possible rant
).Peace
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
^ No, because mankind is at the stage now where we're able to look at a natural substance that's been used for millennia, work out how it acts & how it produces it's side effects, then modify that structure to improve on the wanted action without increasing the unwanted side effects.
If you want an example, the psychedelic with the safest theraputic index (ratio of effective to toxic dose) is LSD, which is a product of a synthetic lab. Psilocybin, DMT & mescaline might be fairly safe, but none come close to LSD in terms of theraputic index. Of course some are going to be more toxic, but that's only to be expected as research into the structure activity relationship continues, but to say that the ones that are the products of plants are the safest is just plain incorrect.
Safety is inherent in the molecular structure of the drug and not the source of it. If it wasn't then there'd be little point in much of pharmacological research
If you want an example, the psychedelic with the safest theraputic index (ratio of effective to toxic dose) is LSD, which is a product of a synthetic lab. Psilocybin, DMT & mescaline might be fairly safe, but none come close to LSD in terms of theraputic index. Of course some are going to be more toxic, but that's only to be expected as research into the structure activity relationship continues, but to say that the ones that are the products of plants are the safest is just plain incorrect.
Safety is inherent in the molecular structure of the drug and not the source of it. If it wasn't then there'd be little point in much of pharmacological research
gloggawogga
Bluelighter
If Mr. McKenna told you that then Mr. McKenna was wrong. Mescaline is not an amphetamine.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
^ Which just goes to show that you should always independantly verify any info., regardless of how respected a source they are. Everyone makes mistakes at some point...
And after I asked that no-one get upset and be nasty! I'm sooo disappointed
And after I asked that no-one get upset and be nasty! I'm sooo disappointed
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
^ hahaha.
Now, I can't believe people are STILL taking me seriously on the McKenna thing - especially those who have seen me post on this forum for like 3 years! How much more sarcastic can I make my tone? It gets a bit difficult after that...
Like, where in 3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine can you not see the word "amphetamine"? geez, like, you people are so... like, undereducated! :D
Now, I can't believe people are STILL taking me seriously on the McKenna thing - especially those who have seen me post on this forum for like 3 years! How much more sarcastic can I make my tone? It gets a bit difficult after that...
Like, where in 3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine can you not see the word "amphetamine"?
geez, like, you people are so... like, undereducated! :D