The Big & Dandy Methoxetamine Thread: 9th dose - Tolerance Schmolerance

[Albion]

This is a very powerful drug people, please be safe

 

[Candy_Raver]

I have been taking bumps of this stuff for the last 5 days, every morning. My dose has been around 20-30mgs, and so far I don't notice a tolerance increase and hope it stays this way.

I plan on only using a bump every morning everyday so I hope my tolerance dosn't skyrocket, or I suffer long term negative effects.

-PLUR

 

[J.Wallace]

I'm definitely not gonna stop posting about my heroic doses, or how stupidly I go through this substance. People should know these things. If a person reads about somebody going through a gram at once, and decides "Hey, if he can do it, I can do it" then in my personal opinion that person deserves whatever is coming for him or her. If people are taking these substances, they should already know the dangers of doing a chemical that is untested and simply unknown in the world of pharmacology.

I'm not saying what I do is responsible, or smart. It most certainly isn't. But it's good to share these things, it lets people know where other people are in their usage, and allows them to evaluate how it applies to them.

 

[Praline]

Yea peeps, a little goes aLONG way w this stuff, I mean I do 5-10mg every few hours and just chill when enough is enough..it'll let u know if u listen to it, but I do like holing on it every once in a while, good god man, I can't b like that all the time, everything starts looking like me lol boring

 

[limonov]

Fucking hell- version NINE? Anyone who is still denying that this is extremely moreish is a fucking idiot or employing a lot of junky-logic.

In my opinion it is an extremely moreish drug, to the point of being a genuinely addictive stimulant- not physically from experience, but the psychological addiction it produces is more akin to a speed habit than a ketamine addiction. As I said way back in whatever teh fuck version I posted mainly in (4? 5? 6?)- this can barely be called a ketamine analog from a chemical point of view (it's a heavily modified PCE analog- its relationship to ketamine is more 'inspiration' than cold hard science). In my opinion, if the DEA wanted to, they could get a conviction for possession of a PCP-analog rather than treating it as a ketamine analog simply by pointing to the abscence of anything, let alone a chlorine molocule, at the 2 position and the substitution of a methyl group (decreases potency) for an ethyl group (increases potency, PCE is explicitly illegal in USA). constitutes a 'substantial similiarity' to PCE and 'substantial disimilarity' from ketamine. Get a DA prosecuter with a few professors who care about their degrees to explain this chemistry to a jury an what do you think is gonna happen?

But law aside, the fact that it is a PCE analog means that it needs to be treated like PCP NOT ketamine! I cannot emphasis this enough- using methoxetamine like ketamine resulted in a massive psychological addiction (which I have now gotten over- haven't taken/ordered any MXE for like 9 months or some shit) to MXE as well as a helpful little addiction to opiates (to get over the post mxe-hole-mania, so I could sleep) which I'm still dealing with (tapering down, jumping off in mid may). I don't blame MXE- I take full responsibility for my actions. I have played with opiates for a long time, it was only a matter of time before I got physically addicted to them again. But the delusional thinking that MXE caused, both as a direct effect and as a lingering metabolite 'afterglow' which can last upto 2 weeks (ime) if you binge hard enough and take high enough doses (200mg+ daily, for a week will cause such effects, though more minor than what I experienced- it's 5 times stronger than K remember? So that's a g a day equiv of K. Or about 40mg of PCP a day- would you take 40mg of PCP every day for a week?).

It seems to have active metabolites- I have no idea what they are, but they are long acting. This is why the dose-response-recovery period varies so wildly- how you feel the next day will depend as much of how many of what metabolites you still have kicking round your system. I have a personal theory that while MXE is not itself a full mu agonist (an opioid, essentially) it produces a metabolite that does have opiate-type effects. If your body simply removes the 3-MeO, but 2-Oxo-PCE stays in your system then there's a very high chance that there may be some opiate activity. Maybe it's dissociative in its own right, but also a powerful prodrug for a variety of powerful/long acting metabolites- sorta like Diazepam- which has it's own effects, but has half a dozen active metabolites which your body also has to flush out. It's not like LSD where your body rapidly absorbs, metabolises and excretes it- by the time you're coming down you're almost pissing it out.

So, if you tl;dr my little spiel then basically-
* MXE is a powerful drug. It has the potential to unlock hidden parts of your soul to your mind.
* It is a extremely strong potentiator of opiates (seriously- I've mentioned this multiple times, but I'm generally considered 'the responsible guy'- though that could just be because I don't drink- and I nearly killed myself multiple times combining it with non-IV opiates. I worry about junkies who don't know anything about it being given a bag, figuring what the hell, adding like 10mg to his usual fix and dying with the needle in his arm, just because he figured it'd be fine- it was only a tiny amount and it's not like their mate would give them something that could kill them.... It roughly DOUBLES the strength of any opiate ONCE the MXE has FULLY kicked in. If you don't plug/IM/IV then you should wait atleast an hour or two before taking any opiates- it comes on slow via those ROAs).
* It is very quick acting via plugging/smoking/IM/IV, but takes longer (30-60 minutes) to come on properly via oral/nasal/sublingual/oral.
* The ROA appears to change the experience radically- quick onset = vegetation followed by mania, slow onset = a smoother stimulat-dissociative.
* It is long acting, and has strong stimulant properties. While it doesn't have that amphetamine focus or the same gurning/teeth clenching, I would put it on par with amphetamine (at appropriate dose- gotta be able to talk ) in its 'stay awake, full of energy, party hard all night' as a stimulant.
* If you're sensitive to stimulants you ain't sleeping until 8am or are gonna need benzos.
* It has multiple active metabolites, which may lead to delusional thinking and thus behaviour for 3-14 days after taking it (depending on amount, times taken etc etc- the 'afterglow').

*** It's a serious drug- treat it more like 'PCP for pussies' than 'ketamine for the unhooked-up'***

Peace and love brothers- stay safe. Methoxetamine is a diamond amongst the sewer that is the 'RC scene'. But she's a diamond with a lot of sharp edges.

Personally at this point I'm more excited about new horizions. MXE is just the tip of the chemical iceburg when it when it comes to arylcyclohexylamines. I have found 3-MeO-PCP superior to MXE in ever regard, but at the same time I'm excited about the possibility of more RCs- 3-MeO-4-Oxo-PCE (THAT'll squeeze some opiate activity out), 3-MeO-2-Oxo-PCP, shit-why not ACTUALLY make a ketamine analogue?- 3-MeO-2-Oxo-PCM (wouldn't be potent, but could still be fucking sweet). That's just off the top of my head and just modifications of MXE- there is a whole CLASS to explore, ranging from straight stimulants to opiates 100 times stronger than fentanyl with everything in between. Where's our Augustus Owsley motherfucker? Where's our Nick Sand?

 

[Euphoric Status]

*** It's a serious drug- treat it more like 'PCP for pussies' than 'ketamine for the unhooked-up'***

limonov is right. We need to stop being pussies and move onto PCP.

 

[B.mans]

limonov is right. We need to stop being pussies and move onto PCP.

Hahaha, loving this :D

 

[idontdothizz]

When using this stuff and going beyond the separation from mind and body and hit the separation from soul and mind....

My soul is having an orgasm..

 

[escape20]

Wow, limonov that was an epic post. Very informative.

Anyway, the way I see it is that MXE is a strong anti-depressant and I rather take it then something physically addictive like SSRI's or whatever. With that said I know it's not smart to use this stuff everyday but i'm honestly just self-medicating. When I started taking MXE my depression completely went away and the past month has been nothing but happiness. Not numbness (fuck SSRI's) but true happiness. I'm not a drug addict just someone looking to get rid of my anxiety/depression problems and enjoy life. So far MXE is helping me do that so I don't see a reason for me to stop. Also, I don't abuse the stuff...I only take between 40-60mg a day and I only take hole doses once every couple weeks.

 

[Shifty38]

Fucking hell- version NINE? Anyone who is still denying that this is extremely moreish is a fucking idiot or employing a lot of junky-logic.

Yep, version nine really is the evidential smoking gun of moreishness

 

[Spacemonkey5000]

anyone else get muscle ache from this stuff?

Ive noticed if i take this the same day i have been working out i will be very sore the day after.

Also i have been rehabbing a bad back for a while now and it was getting better, a few doses of this got me back to feeling sore again though.

Ive been doing some ketamine and that doesnt seem to have this side effect at all though, also drugs like lsd or shrooms almost makes me feel better so i´m having a hard time finding the reason for this weird side effect.

 

[Candy_Raver]

I took another bump this morning.

I have been using this compound everyday for the last 6 days. A low dose puts me into a nice happy place, but when I start coming down I feel speedy, and compelled to take a hit so it would put me back into the calm state I was in. This compound is odd, its like when I'm coming down I feel speedy and the urge to redose. Well I plan on using this every other day, as no other compounds is as powerful as a anti-depressant agent.

-PLUR

 

[ColtDan]

Still doing my once a week 60mg ish sesh, spread over the evening, tolerance hasnt gone up by much and still get a beautiful positive stimulated glow for awhile after. haven't been properly balls deep with it for awhile, might have to at some point. always gets nice and twisted. cant put it into words. orgasming out the universe comes close

works a wonder drinkng alcohol on the glow as well, stops me getting so drunk. also stops me wanting stimulants to mix with the booze

MXE is magical stuff

 

[psood0nym]

So I've actually asked before and been told "no," but is MXE an analogue of PCE, a Schedule I drug in the U.S.? This would make it prosecutable under the analogue laws, whereas if it were only an analogue of ketamine it wouldn't be because ketamine is Schedule III. I ask because in Drugs in the Media there's a story about a US seizure, and it references the Food Drug and Cosmetics Act which states a new drug may not be sold in the country without an FDA-approved application as being the the rationale for seizure. The bag was labelled "Not for human consumption," not as a drug but as usual that doesn't matter so much when it comes to just confiscating a chemical that brings joy. If it was prosecutable under the Analogue Act why wouldn't LE have referenced that instead of this less legally austere act? A respondent in the thread who has struck me as knowledgeable in the past DOES say MXE is an analogue of PCE, so now I wonder if the poster who told me it wasn't an analogue of PCE was misinformed. Did LE just not know or what's going on? Technically speaking at least, I believe maybe it's going to depend on the specific name for the structural relationship MXE has with PCE and whether that nomenclature is covered explicitly in the Act. I'm not certain myself and it's weird more people haven't made this argument if it's true but it'd be nice to get a comprehensive explanation. Obviously LE is going to seize whatever for whatever reason in many cases but when it comes to actual prosecution technicalities are probably going to matter more.

 

[OPANAMONIUM]

I'm definitely not gonna stop posting about my heroic doses, or how stupidly I go through this substance. People should know these things. If a person reads about somebody going through a gram at once, and decides "Hey, if he can do it, I can do it" then in my personal opinion that person deserves whatever is coming for him or her. If people are taking these substances, they should already know the dangers of doing a chemical that is untested and simply unknown in the world of pharmacology.

I'm not saying what I do is responsible, or smart. It most certainly isn't. But it's good to share these things, it lets people know where other people are in their usage, and allows them to evaluate how it applies to them.

No, I totally agree that people should know about the way people use this drug, whether it be good or bad. these things need to be documented.

But I think that whem people talk about these things on this site they should at least stress that they dont reccomend doses like that for everyone or that they may have been using the substance a bit foolishly. I would hate for anymore mxe tragedies to happen because of the large degree of misinformation ive seen posted throughout some of these threads. Im not trying to single you out jwallace, in fact ive never had a problem with the way you talk about your usage im just trying to stress the whole harm reduction thing especially with this stuff.

I also completely agree that everyone should do their research and know all the dangers of the substances they use but lets be real here, we know thats not how the world works. It seems a bit counter-productive to go about it with an attitude like "he should have known better."

 

[limonov]

So I've actually asked before and been told "no," but is MXE an analogue of PCE, a Schedule I drug in the U.S.? This would make it prosecutable under the analogue laws, whereas if it were only an analogue of ketamine it wouldn't be because ketamine is Schedule III. I ask because in Drugs in the Media there's a story about a US seizure, and it references the Food Drug and Cosmetics Act which states a new drug may not be sold in the country without an FDA-approved application as being the the rationale for seizure. The bag was labelled "Not for human consumption," not as a drug but as usual that doesn't matter so much when it comes to just confiscating a chemical that brings joy. If it was prosecutable under the Analogue Act why wouldn't LE have referenced that instead of this less legally austere act? A respondent in the thread who has struck me as knowledgeable in the past DOES say MXE is an analogue of PCE, so now I wonder if the poster who told me it wasn't an analogue of PCE was misinformed. Did LE just not know or what's going on? Technically speaking at least, I believe maybe it's going to depend on the specific name for the structural relationship MXE has with PCE and whether that nomenclature is covered explicitly in the Act. I'm not certain myself and it's weird more people haven't made this argument if it's true but it'd be nice to get a comprehensive explanation. Obviously LE is going to seize whatever for whatever reason in many cases but when it comes to actual prosecution technicalities are probably going to matter more.

I think that the fact that it has so little in common (from a structural point of view) with Ketamine and so much in common with PCE (i.e. it's simply a heavily modified version of PCE) that if LE had the inclination they could prosecute using analog laws. I simply think that the only people who have been busted have been busted with small amounts, they've said the 'right' things and were probably complete dipshits to begin with (who the fuck gets busted for RCs? I mean, customs is one thing, but actually getting arrested by a beat cop? WTF? They probably deserved to be arrested).

I think the only reason it hasn't be prosecuted as a PCE analog is that drug enforcement is so fragmented within the US that it's never been put to trial by an agency with the cash/inclination to 'make an example' out of someone by hiring a bunch of 'expert witnesses' and getting them to explain MXE structure to a jury, explain how few similiarities it really has to Ketamine and how it does have a 'substantial similarity' in structure/effect to PCE.

I think the thing that people are forgetting is ketamine itself is a PCP analog- PCP is the 'mother-drug' of the class, all derivatives within the class can be considered 'PCP-analogs'. Ketamine itself is a PCP analog- it's just that ketamine has a thousand legitimate medicial uses so gets a special excemption (and saved the share price of parke-davis after the disaster that was PCP as an anesthetic) and that is why it is specfically listed as a schedule III drug- I think we're lucky that the doctors and teh WHO won out and kept ketamine as an anesthetic, but ketamine got a special hallpass and I don't think 'ketamine analogs' was ever going to help from a legal sense.

It's like talking about developing "an active loperamide analog that is 100 times more potent than fentanyl!"- putting aside the fact that loperamide was developed from fentanyl, if you discovered a new active opiate derived from loperamides structure you wouldn't get a special pass, you'd simply be prosecuted under the fentanyl analog laws...what with it probably qualifying as a fentanyl analog. It's the same thing here- I think people have simply been taking MXE and telling themselves 'this isn't covered by the analog act because ketamine is schedule III' until they've really, truly started to believe it. Maybe they're right- all I'm saying is that the DEA seems to do and convict who it pleases as it pleases, if they wanted to 'take on MXE' they would, they would probably simply use the preexisting PCX-analog laws and build a case around 'proving' MXE is NOT a ketamine analog, but rather is a PCE analog thus quite fucking illegal. More illegal than, say, 2C-B. At the same time you could also argue that bupropion, being a phenthalylamine, is a 2C-B analog- it's not like we're dealing with well written or rational legislation here. It's intentionally vauge so that they CAN selectively prosecute and MXE definately something they'd want to prosecute, if only to discourage 'underground research'.

Unless the compound you're talking about contains around 75% of the ketamine skeleton it's most likely going to be considered a PCP analog by the courts. I think everyone was fooling themselves in regards to the law (as far as the states go- the RC scene seems to be a China-Europe partnership, with the US simply being the biggest consumer)- as well as the reality. If they want to charge you, they'll find a way to charge you. And using some act or some witness they will do so, mainly because they're kinda right and a Jury isn't going to make an objective judgement when you put chemistry on trial- they'll be clueless and give the verdict the prosecuter with the expert witnesses tells them to.

Plus, just look at the structural differences- ketamine = 2'-Chloro-2-Oxo-PCM Methoxetamine 3-MeO-2-Oxo-PCE. You've completely removed the 2'-chloro group (a definining feature of ketamine- in my opinion the Chlorine molecule is THE defining feature of ketamine, both structurally and in its effects- the chlorine molecule makes it weak, hence you don't overdose on 50mg like with PCP), you've kept the 2-Oxo (but that's only to keep ketamines analgesic profile) and you've swapped the methyl group (PCM) for an ethyl group (PCE) in order to boost the potency, resulting in a chemical that has very little structural similiarity to ketamine. 3-Meo-2-Oxo-PCM, that'd be a ketamine analog. Maybe 2'-Chloro-2-Oxo-PCE would also be a ketamine analog. 3-MeO-2-Oxo-PCE is not a ketamine analog in my opinion- never was, never has been.

At the same time, I have a great deal of faith in the general ignorance of the majority of people. Yes, I posted this openly on an open forum- but only 0.00001% of people are gonna read it, and half of them will misinterpret what I've said. I think ignorance is what's keeping people safe, in a legal sense.

'Ketamine analog' was always just a marketing term, as far as I see it. It's never had that much in common with ketamine, but has always had quite a bit in common with good old PCP.

And yes, you're all pussies and should be taking PCP by now. It's time to grow up boys . Or from looks of things, what half of the posters on these threads needs isn't MXE- it's a decent ketamine hook-up. What I meant was compare the B&D 3-MeO-PCP thread to the NINE B&D MXE threads- you'll see a lot of actual harm reduction and important infomation in one, in the other you'll mainly read justifications for daily drug use and 'woooah I'm sooooooooo fuuuuuuuuuuuckskkkkkkwed! Just railed 250mg [equiv= 1250mg ketamine] in one go!' style posts giving dangerous dosage reports/'guidance' with little no to no context. The only difference seems to be one of these analogs is treated like PCP and one of them is treated like ketamine. I'll leave it to individuals to work out which is which.

 

[IamMe90]

snip

But PCP is a schedule 2 drug and thus not subject to the analog act.

 

[Ondine]

I'd personally would rather be doing ketamine and I have access to it. MXE is just way cheaper and a little goes a long way. Personally, I think I'm mostly done with large doses. As long as no scary toxicity reports emerge, I can easily see low doses (20-30mg) becoming my #1 recreational/functional substance, as opposed to smoking a joint or having 1 or 2 drinks. I think MXE has this huge appeal in that it's cheap (also snortable which for me is a plus), fucks you up, but not too much in large doses, and isn't illegal in the states yet. I think there's a huge demand for a subtle, cheap psychedelic that can be taken and then enjoyed without heavily interfering with your day to day activities, and if you can control your doses of MXE well enough, it is indeed that kind of drug.

 

[limonov]

But PCP is a schedule 2 drug and thus not subject to the analog act.

I'm glad I'm not an American, so I could be completely wrong- but methamphetamine is schedule II as well and 4-MAR was cracked down on pretty hard. 4-MAR and alpha-methyl-fentanyl (fentanyl also being schedule II) were the very START of the analog laws- it's heavily discussed in Pikhal/Tihkhal, which is where I'm getting my info from- so I'm guessing the analog act applies to schedule I & II, while III and lower are excluded. Ketamine only gets a 'pass' because it was made a schedule III drug- and besides, if anything is gonna get ketamine bumped up to schedule II (which it probably fits in better with) it's gonna be a stream of 'ketamine analogs' attempting to exploit the fact that K is schedule III.

And now that I look it up, 'Ethylamine analog of phencyclidine (Eticyclidine; PCE)' is schedule I, along with PCPy and TCP. So .

 

[thikal]

My girlfriend can't stand this chemical, a low dose maybe 10-15mg and she was full of anxiety for hours (it don't ease GBL edginess claro que no). On me, this product is certainly manic, and ... I like that. Definitely addictive, is there a speed head that can count all the "O My god this stuff is amazinGG with a valium" on all the big and dancy threads hehe. I admit I tried it^^