The Big & Dandy Methoxetamine (MXE) Thread - Chapter 14
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hawaii
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Xorkoth
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Well... hard to describe dissociative holes. And probably different for everyone. Near-hole experiences have involved becoming music and traveling through colorful adventures that make no sense to try to recall. My full-on hole experience was incredibly profound, I wrote a TR about it: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=102742
Cream Gravy?
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^I enjoyed that read Xorkoth, I think in a week or two I might give a 40mg oral dose a shot and see how far I can go.
I did ~30mg last night after having a few drinks, and it was very recreational, albeit weaker than my 30mg experience three days prior. Obviously tolerance builds to the effects rapidly for me, as I was dissatisfied mostly; however, I was sufficiently disoriented enough to not know that my roommate was home, and when I found him it gave me great bliss, and I laughed and got to talking to him, which resulted in a profound forgiveness of his previous actions on my part. I have noticed that MXE, unlike any drug I've ever done, causes me to feel love for others, a pure and indiscriminatory love. I find myself texting old friends I lost most contact with, forgiving my roommate for being insensitive, writing love poetry to my girlfriend of 5 years. It is quite the substance.
On the come down, I was pleasantly stimulated and felt an overwhelming sense that I could do anything I wanted in life; quit cannabis, quit drinking often, quit being boring to my girlfriend, quit letting my pets' enclosures get too dirty, just soooo many things flew through my mind. It gave me great motivation, but I now after awakening hold only half that previous motivation. None the less, after at least 8 years of incurable depression, MXE is the first "treatment" so to speak that truly makes me feel... happy I guess. SSRI's never did shit, weed was only a temporary solution, LSD only reset the buttons for a month or so, but MXE? It really makes me blissful, even if only for a little while. I freaking love MXE after only 3 low dose experiences.
I did ~30mg last night after having a few drinks, and it was very recreational, albeit weaker than my 30mg experience three days prior. Obviously tolerance builds to the effects rapidly for me, as I was dissatisfied mostly; however, I was sufficiently disoriented enough to not know that my roommate was home, and when I found him it gave me great bliss, and I laughed and got to talking to him, which resulted in a profound forgiveness of his previous actions on my part. I have noticed that MXE, unlike any drug I've ever done, causes me to feel love for others, a pure and indiscriminatory love. I find myself texting old friends I lost most contact with, forgiving my roommate for being insensitive, writing love poetry to my girlfriend of 5 years. It is quite the substance.
On the come down, I was pleasantly stimulated and felt an overwhelming sense that I could do anything I wanted in life; quit cannabis, quit drinking often, quit being boring to my girlfriend, quit letting my pets' enclosures get too dirty, just soooo many things flew through my mind. It gave me great motivation, but I now after awakening hold only half that previous motivation. None the less, after at least 8 years of incurable depression, MXE is the first "treatment" so to speak that truly makes me feel... happy I guess. SSRI's never did shit, weed was only a temporary solution, LSD only reset the buttons for a month or so, but MXE? It really makes me blissful, even if only for a little while. I freaking love MXE after only 3 low dose experiences.
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Cream Gravy?
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Has anyone experienced issues with dosing MXE multiple nights in a row? I've done it the past two nights, and might want to again tonight if my roommate decides to join me/gets off work on time.
Folley
Bluelighter
^ the main problems I had with dosing MXE everyday was that there were *seemingly* no repercussions or issues that arose because of it. This is of course not true, the side effects are just very sneaky in how they appear, and it's incredibly easy to ignore them. Cognitive effects surely add up after sometime, there is a real consequence to living in the care-free psychedelia of MXE. The main problems for me were a lack of concentration, major problems with speech and memory (having a word on the tip of your tongue, but NEVER being able to find it) and some other various issues that practically left me retarded.
It has all faded, but it's definitely not gone. The biggest problem with MXE is that it's so easy to rationalize another dose... why sit around the house when you could be flying through space? There is some serious addiction/compulsion tendencies with this drug, though it's very easy not to fully realize the extent of such abuse when you're in the middle of a binge.
It has all faded, but it's definitely not gone. The biggest problem with MXE is that it's so easy to rationalize another dose... why sit around the house when you could be flying through space? There is some serious addiction/compulsion tendencies with this drug, though it's very easy not to fully realize the extent of such abuse when you're in the middle of a binge.
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How long would you say it takes to develop those negative effects? I haven't experienced any after two nights of lower doses, and I doubt I'll continue after a third night in a row. So I guess my real question is, are there any immediate issues with a couple nights in a row?
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A couple nights in a row isn't enough for those persisting negative effects, no.
Xorkoth
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I'd say that for just a few nights, your main problem would be tolerance buildup. You'll build some up and the effects will not be as good as they were at first, and dissociative tolerance can take quite a while to drop. If you just do it this once I'm sure you'll be fine, or even every so often, but if you make it a habit (which is super easy to do and no one means to fall into those patterns), you will begin to have a lot of negative effects and likely destroy the magic for yourself.
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^Nice man, thanks for that!
Grinders Kiefers
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I couldn't agree more. Most people would probably question the consequences of using anything multiple days in a row, taking huge doses in a short period of time, etc., binging so to speak. To put it in other words, most rational individuals would probably think something along the lines of "why would I take more?" That may have been my logic when I was first introduced, but eventually it changed into, "why would I NOT take more?"
I'm no stranger to addiction/compulsion with other substances, but this stuff can really get a grip on you if you let it. The psychological pull it has is actually pretty frightening sometimes. It's easy to think in the moment, or even the next day, that it's all so innocuous and harmless, like weed almost...then you run out, and realize two weeks have gone by and there was hardly a moment you weren't on MXE. There were a lot of times where I just absent-mindedly dabbed my finger into a bag without really considering things like, for instance, the fact that it was 12am and I had to go to work at 7am or "you know, maybe I shouldn't take this before going out to dinner with relatives..."
It's not like I haven't had many, many positive experiences, either, but like most people will tell you, dissociative tolerance goes up very fast and takes a LONG time to go back to baseline, if that ever even happens. I actually feel like, compared to many other recreational drugs, MXE or maybe just Arylcyclohexylamines in general have this ridiculous capability of producing unbelievable compulsive/addictive habits or behavior in otherwise mentally healthy individuals.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who can and do use MXE and other related chemicals responsibly, but to the friends I've shared it/them with, it seems very polarizing, a love or hate kind of thing. There have actually been a few times where I kind of tried to "protect" friends who I decided had shown TOO much interest, and by protect, I mean act passive-aggressive to the questions they ask, or pretend like I'm not really that into it. In retrospect, this almost seems like a defense mechanism for my ego or something, like "MXE is MY thing, don't you DARE ask me where I got it from and if I can hook you up." Those are the kind of warped thoughts I would have that seemed perfectly reasonable at the time, but make me disgusted to think about now. It is extremely difficult to be aware of your thoughts or have that kind of insight when you're constantly using. The same could be said for most drugs, but I have found it true for MXE more than any other.
Xorkoth
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Somehow I seem to be alright with MXE... I love it, it's my favorite dissociative I think. But I bought a gram 4 months ago and used it very occasionally, just ran out after sharing probably half that gram with friends and having many great experiences myself. I feel lucky, because addiction is a big issue for me, I even abused the shit out of serotonergic psychedelics for years.
Grinders Kiefers
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Sorry, I'm not trying to demonize MXE or Arylcyclohexylamines or anything, just wanted to expound a little on Folley's post and may have gotten a tad carried away with how much I wrote. Nevertheless, the best way I would describe MXE, at least for my own use, is a blessing and a curse. I actually only had one friend who I guided through the proper channels to get his own MXE, mostly because he wouldn't stop bothering me about it, but I don't think he was a repeat customer. I haven't talked to him for a while though, so I don't even know. 8(
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TheAppleCore
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I can believe it. MXE had an unbelievably strong pull for me. It's been months and months since I quit because of worrisome side effects, but I still think about it regularly, and find myself compulsively reading this thread to try to vicariously re-live the old days when I used to get high on MXE.
Ballz_Trippington
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I have no problems whatsoever doing MXE twice and as of late once a month. I believe that some people find it incredibly addictive but personally I find soft drinks more addicting.
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Well, I ended up doing it Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday... Now after two days off, I think I'ma take a nice nasal dose since I'll be busy all the next week.
For those of you who have indeed binged on it for a much longer period than my short MXE acquaintanceship, what are the persisting negative effects you have felt, and have they gone away at all?
For those of you who have indeed binged on it for a much longer period than my short MXE acquaintanceship, what are the persisting negative effects you have felt, and have they gone away at all?
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vortech
Bluelighter
Well I can tell you since I've come off a 6 day binge a couple days ago. Basically I'm in a cycle where I usually do it for too many days in a row until I'm on the verge of blowing a fuse. The body just gets tired of being 'overclocked' in such a way for so long. I overused it. I know a healthier cycle would be for no for than one or two days of dosing every week or two, but every time I have such amazing experiences the first couple days, awesome dreams the first night, unreal experiences that seem impossible and mind-blowingly visceral, and I want to keep recreating that. To an extent I can, with the right dosing and techniques I can continue to go wild on it for a few days, but by the 5th day definitely their are more negative side effects than there are positive side-effects. 'Weird feelings', Cognitive cloudiness, 'fried nerves' and tension in various areas especially the brain- basically I just get tired of the vibrations.
Do these side effects go away? Yes! Sometimes for the first day or two of the comedown I say to myself 'oh man I've really done it this time, my brain will never feel normal again' but its actually pretty awesome how it does get back to normal by day 3, after a 5-7 day binge. I even would say I feel really good at that point with an afterglow that lasts a few days.
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psychoblast
Bluelighter
Greetings.
So, I've been using MXE nearly every day for over 3 1/2 years. I took a couple breaks in the 30 day range, and a few shorter breaks, like maybe one day a week, and a 3 day break every 6 weeks or so, to try to keep tolerance manageable. I have tested with aspergers / autism spectrum disorder, but that could alternatively be something else like social anxiety disorder or whatever, the point is I have been self-medicating my sense of alienation, loneliness, etc., probably all my life, first with alcohol, then ecstasy, then psychedelics, and then disassociatives.
I wanted a more rock n' roll lifestyle, or maybe more Woodstock, and was on my way as a trained massage therapist, attending music festivals, Burning Man, tripping regularly, studying tantra and taoism and hula hooping, etc. But then my S.O. got pregnant and we hit a rough spot and it seemed that I needed to be more conservative to keep the family together. My trips grew fewer and fewer, and I got a white collar desk job, and between a new baby and the job, had very little time for anything. Ketamine seemed to be the answer, because it lasted so short, I could trip for an hour or so once or twice a week and that somehow made up for what I felt I had sacrificed to hold the family together. But after 6 months, I realized I was seriously fiending and addicted to the ketamine, and had some kidney pains, and read about that complication. So I quit cold turkey, and a month later found mxe, described as a related drug, so I tried it. The effects lasted longer but, on the other hand, were less conspicuous and, short of "holing," did not stop me from interacting with others, including family (though sometimes I overdid it and had to hide / avoid people because I felt my inebriation was too obvious).
I felt like I was having epiphanes and insightful thoughts on mxe, and maybe I was, but I am pretty sure mxe triggers whatever part of the brain feels like it is having a very profound "aha" moment, because a few times I overdid this and had intense "aha" moments about stuff that, later, I realized was bat-shit crazy. So I had started thinking this might be somewhat a cognitive enhancer, but now am more inclined to say it makes you feel smart, brilliant, etc., but does not objectively make you so.
I started mixing MXE with vicodin and tramadol after about a year. I had taken these one or two days a week instead of mxe, to help avoid the tolerance issue, but then just started combining them. I have read some warnings on tramadol and mxe, but never noticed anything major.
I will say that I noticed a lot of dryness in my eyes, and thirst, on mxe, and something about how it operates seems to affect this which makes sense since this would be somewhat related to the kidney function, which ketamine is known to mess with, and mxe is a ketamine analogue. I never got the kidney pain back using mxe, so I don't see that as an issue, but I did go to an eye exam recently after 3 years and the optometrist was shocked how much my vision had worsened in one eye (but not both). Apparently pretty unprecedented to have such a dramatic change at my age, with no obvious cause. My guess would be that the dryness from mxe was a significant factor.
My regular day I'd wake, go to work, and try to get so caught up in work that I did not think of MXE. If I succeeded, I'd dose at around 2pm. If I failed, my first dose would be around 10:30am. Here's an interesting twist: I felt a lot more f-d up on mxe at work on a smaller dose than at home. Like I would not even feel 20mg at home, would need twice that to have a small mxe buzz, but 20mg at work would have me feeling so trippy I was afraid to talk to coworkers for fear they'd notice. But I didn't talk to co-workers much, so it was not a big issue.
I'd re-dose in the afternoon, then at around 7pm because any later and I'd have trouble falling asleep at a normal hour, which would leave me more shambled the next day.
On weekends with family, I'd sometimes go all day without dosing, sometimes dose all day, but mostly take my first dose in the afternoon. The more stressful stuff I had to do, the more put-up that I felt, the sooner and more that I'd dose.
I've quit not for any obvious health issue, except I do think that anything you can do to salve yourself, can become an impediment to maturing and evolving in a healthy way. Like a crutch is great while your leg is in a cast, but if you keep using it afterwards, your body will get all contorted. Even when the cast first comes off and it hurts to use that leg, you need to use it for it to heal properly and if you decide to avoid that pain by using the crutch, you are going to have it worse in the long run. Like if I was unhappy because I was gaining weight because I could not find time to work out, I can take mxe and/or vicodin and feel okay with that, and do nothing to really change my circumstances. Basically, it let's me put up with stuff that, without it, I'd have to gather the resolve to change. And it's that gathering of resolve to changer things that is building character, maturing, evolving, etc. I realized i was putting that off, and the longer you put it off, the higher the price. I expect I'm going to have some tribulations making up for being somewhat numbed the last 3 1/2 years. I have probably made life choices the last 3 1/2 years under the constant MXE influence that I would not have made sober, so I find myself in a life and situation that is not really "me."
Which is another issue, maybe the main issue. On MXE, I stopped being myself, my true self, and instead I was a variation of myself. But not always the same variation. Like Dr. Heckell and Mr. Variable. Sometimes I was really into positive, healthy stuff, ready to throw out all the junk food. The next day I'd be rationalizing why none of that stuff mattered. I'd periodically think about what i wanted for my "dream job" if I were blue-skying my future, and it was not always the same, depended on what side of myself the mxe brought out. So I could not trust ANY of the answers as being my truest answer. Basically, it's hard to find yourself when you are always wearing a mask.
At one time, I thought of the way the spirit evolves through life as sort of like building a tower, and you need a strong foundation. Without that, the tower collapses or you just get stuck not able to go higher. Well, even if you get knocked down, you can start over, in some ways that's healthier than being stuck and not moving at all. But whatever you are building, it requires constancy to go up. When you are "under the influence" you are not really yourself, and you are no longer building upwards, but sideways. I feel like I'm 3 1/2 years behind in personal growth, maturation, etc., due to my near daily usage.
In conclusion, I'd just warn that the addiction potential is huge not necessarily because it feels so good, but because it seems so harmless. It's really hard to have a bad trip (though half my M-holes were nighmarish, only did that a few times, do not recommend holing on this), at lower doses it made me feel like I was gone, replaced by another incarnation of myself. So if I had work to do that I didn't want to do, I'd take some MXE and it would be that new incarnation that would have to deal with it. Sometimes I lucked out and got a really industrious incarnation who loved to work and organize and get stuff done. Sometimes I got an incarnation that said "to hell with work and chores, let's have fun" and then I was left with a bigger mess to clean when I sobered up.
Well, those are some of my thoughts on MXE. I still miss it. I'd like to have some on hand to enjoy on occasion, but I'm pretty sure I'd just go back to a daily habit if that happened. I've been off it for about 2 weeks. Also, have been off the tramadol for a few months because I felt that not really doing me any good. Now i've got a short supply of vicodin, (and lots of xanax and weed) to sort of scale down off the vicodin. Then I'll just be a pot-smoker who sometimes takes xanax for sleep or whatever.
Oh, one last thing: Having the MXE around to do meant I did not do any other psychedelic or empathogen, or hardly ever. Has definitely been over a year. As much as a have bashed inebriation and altered mental states, I think as a rare experience they can help clear out the cobwebs, or jump start your soul, or whatever. MXE kind of stopped me from that. My thought now is that if I can ween myself back to just a normal sober person who smokes some week and such, then I will be in a position to occasionally enjoy the experiences that never really posed the same kind of addiction risk, like shrooming at a forest party, or doing acid at a music festival, or whatever. I think the occasional heavy trip may be much healthier than what I was doing, which was like being in a near-constant state of slight trippiness.
~psychoblast~
So, I've been using MXE nearly every day for over 3 1/2 years. I took a couple breaks in the 30 day range, and a few shorter breaks, like maybe one day a week, and a 3 day break every 6 weeks or so, to try to keep tolerance manageable. I have tested with aspergers / autism spectrum disorder, but that could alternatively be something else like social anxiety disorder or whatever, the point is I have been self-medicating my sense of alienation, loneliness, etc., probably all my life, first with alcohol, then ecstasy, then psychedelics, and then disassociatives.
I wanted a more rock n' roll lifestyle, or maybe more Woodstock, and was on my way as a trained massage therapist, attending music festivals, Burning Man, tripping regularly, studying tantra and taoism and hula hooping, etc. But then my S.O. got pregnant and we hit a rough spot and it seemed that I needed to be more conservative to keep the family together. My trips grew fewer and fewer, and I got a white collar desk job, and between a new baby and the job, had very little time for anything. Ketamine seemed to be the answer, because it lasted so short, I could trip for an hour or so once or twice a week and that somehow made up for what I felt I had sacrificed to hold the family together. But after 6 months, I realized I was seriously fiending and addicted to the ketamine, and had some kidney pains, and read about that complication. So I quit cold turkey, and a month later found mxe, described as a related drug, so I tried it. The effects lasted longer but, on the other hand, were less conspicuous and, short of "holing," did not stop me from interacting with others, including family (though sometimes I overdid it and had to hide / avoid people because I felt my inebriation was too obvious).
I felt like I was having epiphanes and insightful thoughts on mxe, and maybe I was, but I am pretty sure mxe triggers whatever part of the brain feels like it is having a very profound "aha" moment, because a few times I overdid this and had intense "aha" moments about stuff that, later, I realized was bat-shit crazy. So I had started thinking this might be somewhat a cognitive enhancer, but now am more inclined to say it makes you feel smart, brilliant, etc., but does not objectively make you so.
I started mixing MXE with vicodin and tramadol after about a year. I had taken these one or two days a week instead of mxe, to help avoid the tolerance issue, but then just started combining them. I have read some warnings on tramadol and mxe, but never noticed anything major.
I will say that I noticed a lot of dryness in my eyes, and thirst, on mxe, and something about how it operates seems to affect this which makes sense since this would be somewhat related to the kidney function, which ketamine is known to mess with, and mxe is a ketamine analogue. I never got the kidney pain back using mxe, so I don't see that as an issue, but I did go to an eye exam recently after 3 years and the optometrist was shocked how much my vision had worsened in one eye (but not both). Apparently pretty unprecedented to have such a dramatic change at my age, with no obvious cause. My guess would be that the dryness from mxe was a significant factor.
My regular day I'd wake, go to work, and try to get so caught up in work that I did not think of MXE. If I succeeded, I'd dose at around 2pm. If I failed, my first dose would be around 10:30am. Here's an interesting twist: I felt a lot more f-d up on mxe at work on a smaller dose than at home. Like I would not even feel 20mg at home, would need twice that to have a small mxe buzz, but 20mg at work would have me feeling so trippy I was afraid to talk to coworkers for fear they'd notice. But I didn't talk to co-workers much, so it was not a big issue.
I'd re-dose in the afternoon, then at around 7pm because any later and I'd have trouble falling asleep at a normal hour, which would leave me more shambled the next day.
On weekends with family, I'd sometimes go all day without dosing, sometimes dose all day, but mostly take my first dose in the afternoon. The more stressful stuff I had to do, the more put-up that I felt, the sooner and more that I'd dose.
I've quit not for any obvious health issue, except I do think that anything you can do to salve yourself, can become an impediment to maturing and evolving in a healthy way. Like a crutch is great while your leg is in a cast, but if you keep using it afterwards, your body will get all contorted. Even when the cast first comes off and it hurts to use that leg, you need to use it for it to heal properly and if you decide to avoid that pain by using the crutch, you are going to have it worse in the long run. Like if I was unhappy because I was gaining weight because I could not find time to work out, I can take mxe and/or vicodin and feel okay with that, and do nothing to really change my circumstances. Basically, it let's me put up with stuff that, without it, I'd have to gather the resolve to change. And it's that gathering of resolve to changer things that is building character, maturing, evolving, etc. I realized i was putting that off, and the longer you put it off, the higher the price. I expect I'm going to have some tribulations making up for being somewhat numbed the last 3 1/2 years. I have probably made life choices the last 3 1/2 years under the constant MXE influence that I would not have made sober, so I find myself in a life and situation that is not really "me."
Which is another issue, maybe the main issue. On MXE, I stopped being myself, my true self, and instead I was a variation of myself. But not always the same variation. Like Dr. Heckell and Mr. Variable. Sometimes I was really into positive, healthy stuff, ready to throw out all the junk food. The next day I'd be rationalizing why none of that stuff mattered. I'd periodically think about what i wanted for my "dream job" if I were blue-skying my future, and it was not always the same, depended on what side of myself the mxe brought out. So I could not trust ANY of the answers as being my truest answer. Basically, it's hard to find yourself when you are always wearing a mask.
At one time, I thought of the way the spirit evolves through life as sort of like building a tower, and you need a strong foundation. Without that, the tower collapses or you just get stuck not able to go higher. Well, even if you get knocked down, you can start over, in some ways that's healthier than being stuck and not moving at all. But whatever you are building, it requires constancy to go up. When you are "under the influence" you are not really yourself, and you are no longer building upwards, but sideways. I feel like I'm 3 1/2 years behind in personal growth, maturation, etc., due to my near daily usage.
In conclusion, I'd just warn that the addiction potential is huge not necessarily because it feels so good, but because it seems so harmless. It's really hard to have a bad trip (though half my M-holes were nighmarish, only did that a few times, do not recommend holing on this), at lower doses it made me feel like I was gone, replaced by another incarnation of myself. So if I had work to do that I didn't want to do, I'd take some MXE and it would be that new incarnation that would have to deal with it. Sometimes I lucked out and got a really industrious incarnation who loved to work and organize and get stuff done. Sometimes I got an incarnation that said "to hell with work and chores, let's have fun" and then I was left with a bigger mess to clean when I sobered up.
Well, those are some of my thoughts on MXE. I still miss it. I'd like to have some on hand to enjoy on occasion, but I'm pretty sure I'd just go back to a daily habit if that happened. I've been off it for about 2 weeks. Also, have been off the tramadol for a few months because I felt that not really doing me any good. Now i've got a short supply of vicodin, (and lots of xanax and weed) to sort of scale down off the vicodin. Then I'll just be a pot-smoker who sometimes takes xanax for sleep or whatever.
Oh, one last thing: Having the MXE around to do meant I did not do any other psychedelic or empathogen, or hardly ever. Has definitely been over a year. As much as a have bashed inebriation and altered mental states, I think as a rare experience they can help clear out the cobwebs, or jump start your soul, or whatever. MXE kind of stopped me from that. My thought now is that if I can ween myself back to just a normal sober person who smokes some week and such, then I will be in a position to occasionally enjoy the experiences that never really posed the same kind of addiction risk, like shrooming at a forest party, or doing acid at a music festival, or whatever. I think the occasional heavy trip may be much healthier than what I was doing, which was like being in a near-constant state of slight trippiness.
~psychoblast~
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