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The Big & Dandy HPPD Thread

^Wait until they get chronic and then report back ;)

I don't think dread was assuming anything about you to be honest. Though I could just be assuming that myself.

there are various kinds of depersonalization, i'm with her on some of them are fun.

some of them are not.

hppd is fun and i'm stickin' to it.
 
I believe I have a mild case of HPPD…it doesn’t really bother me in real life so I wouldn’t consider it a real problem for me now, however it could get worse in the future.

A few different things have persisted. First, when I stare at things for a while, I get some light patterning and a kind of buzzing feeling that I get on salvia a lot. Certain types of light give me a slight strobe effect and tracers. I’ve noticed this in places in my house that I’ve been in my whole life and I never used to get this from the same type of light before I started (ab)using psychedelics. Also, while I was on a decent dose of DOB my friend accidently shined a grow light in my eyes while I was zoning out which left me with an afterimage for a few hours before it started disappearing. Even now if I get really baked and close my eyes I can still see the afterimage there. And sometimes when I’m lying in bed trying to sleep I get small flashbacks where I feel exactly like I’ve just started peaking on a psychedelic drug (kind of feels like a combo of LSD and shrooms) however it only lasts for about 5 to 15 minutes.

I have tripped over 75 times in the past 2 years and 9 months…

First off I must say that I've been a daily pot smoker for about 2 years now and started smoking at 15 with a couple months break for drug testing. On average, I smoke around 5 times a day but I used to smoke a lot more.

As for "true" psychedelics I have mostly used mushrooms and acid but I've also used many more psychedelics but mostly on a single use basis.

Started dabbling in psychedelics at 15 (Morning Glory seeds) and had my first real complete psychedelic experience off an 8th of mushrooms right after turning 16.

I’ve been pretty heavily addicted to pain killers and stimulants in the past.

Not really, because I’ve never had a permanently scarring bad trip ever occur. I think it was more the abuse of these powerful chemicals that got me to where I am now.

If I get really baked I can get some crazy visuals that I never got before I began using a lot of psychedelics. This is only if I get really high which doesn’t happen much now. Also, N20 brings out visuals for me now.

yor symptoms dont really sound like HPPD to be honest. If you had it, you would know. All lights would give you afterimages, you would see tracers on everything in motion, you would have visual static, you would see halos around lights at night, and i mean HUGE halos. i dont think you have anything to worry about.
 
I sort of think that HPPD is blown out of proportion... Except for the few that get it really bad and claim that they gets swirls in their peripheral vision and constant stuff that isn't actually there.

In my opinion, afterimages and halos and tracers are sort of interesting, but the static at night time can get annoying cause I can't really see all too clearly.

Though I know there are people with much worse hppd, I don't know the statistics of how many have it mild and how many have it bad. But in my opinion mild hppd is nothing to be worried about
 
I posted this on hppdonline.com.

Its a couple theorys on why i think disinhibtion is happening. It has to do with altered gene expression via drug use.

There is now reason to believe that certain drugs can alter gene expression to people who are perdisposed to it.

anyway, heres the link. Give it a read if you're interested in why it might happen.

http://www.hppdonline.com/forum/index.php?topic=6932.0

Anyone who thinks they have hppd and hasn't signed up on hppdonline.com should do so.
 
Izzdan-

Those could be "floaters". They're just like cells from your retina that detach and float through your eye jelly (or something like that). My sister was the biggest hypochondriac ever and she went to few doctors for this. They diagnosed her with "floaters". I think she probably only tripped (and only on acid) a couple of times. I think anyone can get floaters.

However, if they're bright I think I get those too. Do you notice them mainly when looking at a blue sky and they just kind of shoot around randomly really fast. I first noticed them after indulging in a weekend of tripping on REALLY GOOD mushrooms about 10 years ago. It's gotten worse over the years and I don't really trip anymore because I'm gettin' old (and I can't find anything), but I do roast a grip of diggetty. I think the dank might even do that to you. It's like I'm so kazooted all the time that I'm seeing stars. AHHAHAHAHA!

Peace,
Stoddard

Yeah I get these floaters a bit too. I notice them when staring at a blank, white wall or reading.
 
I see floaters best when staring at the sky. I don't associate them with HPPD at all though.
 
A massive increase in the amount of floaters is often a symptom of HPPD. For instance, I always saw floaters when I stared at the sky. That's a normal thing. Now I get floaters everywhere, computer screens, reading, etc. Sometimes they can be so bad it's hard to see through them (~15 at a time). I can see them with my eye's closed too if it's sunny.

That is HPPD style floaters. I feel there is often some misunderstandings about that. People will say floaters are normal, they are not part of HPPD. True, but a sudden large increase in the amount can be a part of HPPD.
 
I believe I have HPPD started off from regular mdma usage on the weekends and mushrooms, I get floaters everywhere, static all over my vision, subtle after images of light or objects I look at and distortion in the corners of my vision.
Also when I am driving, cars that come past me have this stuttering like motion like they are skipping along and im missing out milliseconds. Heres an example: Normal ___________ What I See ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
 
I believe I have HPPD started off from regular mdma usage on the weekends and mushrooms, I get floaters everywhere, static all over my vision, subtle after images of light or objects I look at and distortion in the corners of my vision.
Also when I am driving, cars that come past me have this stuttering like motion like they are skipping along and im missing out milliseconds. Heres an example: Normal ___________ What I See ___ ___ ___ ___ ___

yep, that sounds like typical symptoms.
 
not good! its got abit less from not doing anything for the past 2 weekends but im in for a big one this weekend 8(
 
I used to have it really bad when I abused Meth-dex and amphetamine,MDMA ,ketamine and LSD a lot. But now since I really never take Stims anymore just LSD every now and then, my HPPD is almost gone. I Find heavy MDMA abuse was the drug that left me with the most HPPD..even though MDMA it self really is not much of a psychedelic drug.
 
great thread

I believe I have HPPD started off from regular mdma usage on the weekends and mushrooms, I get floaters everywhere, static all over my vision, subtle after images of light or objects I look at and distortion in the corners of my vision.
Also when I am driving, cars that come past me have this stuttering like motion like they are skipping along and im missing out milliseconds. Heres an example: Normal ___________ What I See ___ ___ ___ ___ ___

I've experienced this after taking PDs (didn't last) and that's a really good way to explain it, but I also noticed it while driving down the road some of the first times I smoked cigarettes and weed when I was 16.

My friend went into severe psychosis initially diagnosed scitzophrenic after taking so-called acid. After about 6 months of hospitalization/weekly dr visits he was diagnosed as bipolar, not scitzophrenic.

I hate how RCs are so commonly sold as 'LSD'....the only one I've taken (about 6 times) was 2C-I.
I noticed a way heavier body load on 2-CI compared to LSD, more amnesia, and I was more 'out of it' for the next day or so. But it was still a great experience that I would try again.
 
Alot of people here claim to have their HPPD subside. How long did it take and why is it that some people never have recession in symptoms?
 
I used to have it really bad when I abused Meth-dex and amphetamine,MDMA ,ketamine and LSD a lot. But now since I really never take Stims anymore just LSD every now and then, my HPPD is almost gone. I Find heavy MDMA abuse was the drug that left me with the most HPPD..even though MDMA it self really is not much of a psychedelic drug.

I'd have to agree that stims and MDMA are the worst for it, well for me anyways.
Not that psyches help it though..
 
the HPPD thread

Since joining this website months ago, i've started to see a trend amongst older members and newer ones asking about HPPD, the symptoms, what it is, the possibilities of getting it etc.

I've laid out my ideas and explanations in numerous other threads regarding the issue but it seems like most of the time i end up getting involved in an argument with another member. I will refrain from acting in an aggressive manner towards people who have contradicting opinions if they choose to post in this thread. I only ask that anyone who chooses to comment here could do the same.

I feel obligated to say one thing before i write this out. I am in no way an actual medical researcher and all the information im about to post here for everyone in this community are simply ideas i've read from other legit researchers or simple neurological processes in the brain that i've come to understand from self education.

HPPD

According to Dr. Abraham, the first legitamate researcher for HPPD, HPPD is a legitamate neurobiological disorder stemming from past use of hallucinogenic or psychoactive drugs. It was first theorized by Abraham that HPPD is a result of a loss of GABAergic inhibitory interneurons due to excitotoxic cell death caused by LSD or similar hallucinogens. This was the initial hypothesis developed to try and explain why a certain amount of people continue to experience hallucinations after all drug use has ceased. However, since then there has been new research and development done on HPPD and this theory no longer holds as much ground back then as it does now. The exact mechanism causing HPPD is still not known.

My understanding of neurology is a simple understanding, but i will attempt to explain the process of a normal inhibitory process in response to excitatory stimulation in a "normal" persons brain. When visual stimuli enters a persons brain, it causes excitatory currents to develop in the synaptic cleft. This is caused by a chain reaction of released neurotransmitters. With the normal process of inhibition in the brain, there are inhibitory interneurons in place set to calm down excitatory currents caused by presynaptic neurons. Inhibitory receptors are for the most part located on postsynaptic neurons. When the presynaptic neurons fire, they release neurotransmitters onto postsynaptic neurons. These transmitters will bind to their selective receptor subtype and the chemical reaction will take place. There are receptor subtypes located upon inhibitory neurons to trigger the inhibitory response to excitation. This inhibitory response essentially stops the excitatory current and the current fades out. This was termed the "negative feedback loop" between the serotonergic and GABAergic neurons.

Hallucinogens and how they effect this inhibitory process:

Hallucinogens share similar chemical makeup properties with the natural neurotransmitter serotonin. Because of this, hallucinogens have high affinitys for serotonin receptors. They are partial agonists to serotonin receptors, meaning they bind to serotonin receptors, as serotonin would, but activate and excite the receptors in different ways. Research has shown that the receptor subtype responsible for producing the hallucinations associated with hallucinogens are the 5-ht2a/5-ht2c receptors. These receptors are located on numerous serotonergic neurons, but are also located upon GABAergic inhibitory interneurons. Now normally when serotonin binds to these receptors on the GABAergic neurons, it causes the release of GABA, the main inhibitory neurotransmitter, and produces inhibtion, calming whatever excitatory current that caused the release of GABA. This is part of the "negative feedback loop" i mentioned earlier. But under the effects of a hallucinogen, there seems to be a constant state of disinhibtion (excitation) with the GABAergic neurons, preventing them from calming the excitatory currents being produced by the agonistic features of hallucinogens. This is because theres a binding of the said hallucinogen on the 5-ht2a receptors located on the GABAergic inhibitory neurons. This is what gives rise to the hallucinations.

Normally, when the drug has run its course, this inhibitory process should stabilize and return to normal. However, in genuine but rare cases, these hallucinations persist, 24/7, everyday. This occurence is what is now termed Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder, or HPPD.

Clinical tests run on HPPD subjects show evidence for neurobiological causes:

Although HPPD seems to be a rare case for anyone, it has occured in enough people to recieve clinical examination. There are a few very reliable articles that have been published regarding clinical tests that measure brain activity when exposed to visual stimuli. One of these articles, http://www.nodid.net/Articles/hppd/abraham96b.pdf, presented by Dr. Abraham, shows signs of a very weak but constant state of disinhibtion (excitation) in the cortical areas of the brain. This region of the brain contains the visual cortex and is responisble for filtering visual information. This data was found by running qEEG's on HPPD subjects. EEG's are usually used to detect epileptic activity in persons who suffer from a seizure disorder. When a specialized version of this test is performed on someone complaining of persistent visual disturbances, there are signs for abnormal excitation simply caused by opening of ones eyes and looking around. This overexcited state of the brain causes abnormal activity in regions of the brain. This is perhaps evidence to suggest the reason why some people experience disassociation symptoms comorbid with HPPD onset.

Concluson: Theories, ideas, questions regarding duration of the disorder, predisposition for acquiring it, etc. :

There are no theories in this point in time to determine what exactly has happened to someone who experiences persistent visual disturbances after drug use. One idea that i have involves synaptic plasticity. Synaptic plasticity, or a change in the strength between synaptic connections, is a normal process in the brain. This is what researches now believe to be the reason of how and why we form memories and learn new things. The mechanism of synaptic plasticity is virtually neurons that continually fire together and respond to eachother over periods of time, will develop a "wired" state to one another and therefore will respond stronger and more easily to eachother in future activation. But what does this have to do with HPPD? Well, with HPPD, there COULD of been an artificial way of producing this effect amonst neurons that respond to eachother after being exposed to visual stimulation. These are the same neurons that are responsible for the excitatory and inhibitory "negative feedback loop." If some form of plasticity has occured between these types of neurons, then its reasonable to assume that new kinds of connections and strengths have been developed, hindering the process of inhibition in response to visual stimulation. This would result in lingering visual information that is commonly seen in HPPD subjects. Examples, persistent and intense afterimages, tracers, ghosting, etc.

There is no known cure as of right now for HPPD. Recommended medication treatments include potent benzodiazepines and anticovulsants such as Keppra.

Warning signs for being susceptible to HPPD can include suttle changes in the way you percieve light after hallucinogenic drug use. This could come in the form of many of the different visual symptoms of HPPD. Heres a link for those of you who are not familiar with the visual symptoms. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20456.
 
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