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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy HBWR/MGS/LSA Thread - Part 3: Fluffy Dreams Continued

"The epimerization you are describing with ololiuqui (and others) is a highly specific chemical reaction that only affects a certain class of the plant's alkaloids. This basic environment triggers epimerization at the C-8 position of the ergoline ring, but it requires a specific structural vulnerability to work. This makes the C-8 proton relatively acidic. The alkaline water easily removes this proton, creating a resonance-stabilized enolate intermediate. When the molecule reprotonates, it can do so from either face, creating an equilibrium between the (8R)-epimer (e.g., ergine) and the (8S)-epimer (e.g., isoergine). Instead of a carboxamide group at C-8, lysergol has a hydroxymethyl group. It lacks the electron-withdrawing carbonyl group and cannot form an enolate intermediate. The C-8 proton in lysergol is simply not acidic enough to be stripped away by a mild base. Therefore, the traditional ash preparation is not harsh enough to force lysergol to epimerize into isolysergol; it remains entirely stable."

Research - ololuiqui entourage-effect under basic aqueous conditions

"The epimerization you are describing with ololiuqui (and others) is a highly specific chemical reaction that only affects a certain class of the plant's alkaloids. This basic environment triggers epimerization at the C-8 position of the ergoline ring, but it requires a specific structural...
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me
 
donotdothis said:
ololiuqui
Click to expand...

"NOTE: Although the spelling ololiuqui has gained wide acceptance and is now the commonest orthography, linguistic evidence indicates that this Nahuatl word is correctly written ololiuhqui." R.E. Schultes

Source:

Notes on the Present Status of Ololiuhqui and the Other Hallucinogens of Mexico. R. Gordon Wasson. 1963. Harvard Botannical Museum Leaflets, 20(6), pages 161–193. 10.5962/p.168541
https://www.erowid.org/entheogens/writings/wasson_notes.shtml

donotdothis said:
lysergol
Click to expand...

A study that administered pure LAA, iso-LAA, and lysergol to volunteers (separately) determined that at least 8 milligrams of lysergol was needed to induce a noticeable effect:

"Lysergol shows the least subjective changes."  e) Symptom distribution, page 42

"Changes only occurred at a dosage of 8 mg, with a clear slowing visible in expression and behavior. Facial expression appeared flat and speech showed a reduction in the five expressive qualities."

"Subjectively, fewer vegetative sensations were observed, but a clear inhibition of initiative was present."  c) Lysergol, page 40

Heim, E., Heimann, H., Lukács, G. 1968. Die psychische Wirkung der mexikanischen Droge „Ololiuqui“ am Menschen. Psychopharmacologia, 13 (1): 35–48. 10.1007/BF00401617
Quotes were translated from German
 
"There are currently no peer-reviewed clinical studies that specifically investigate the buccal administration of lysergol (a clavine alkaloid) in its freebase form."
 
"it immediately begins clogging BCRP efflux transporters. This concentrated local action makes the walls of the mouth significantly more porous, allowing other alkaloids to slip through unchallenged. Once in circulation, the lysergol reaches the blood-brain barrier ahead of the other compounds, where it continues to disable these cellular bouncers at the brain's gates. This ensures that the primary active ingredients have an unobstructed path to their target receptors, effectively using the cheek as a direct highway that bypasses typical cellular resistance."
 
"Glycoresins are easily separated under acidic conditions. These are often equated to negative side effects but aren't the only factor."
 
Good point. I deleted the post. And I don't hate Shulgin, but I hate what he said about LAA
 
red22 said:
Good point. I deleted the post. And I don't hate Shulgin, but I hate what he said about LAA
Click to expand...
Yeah, Shulgin definitely was off about a good handful of things, though I can understand where he was coming from on specific points, like his hunch that prioritizing potency would be safest given his pattern of self-experimentation. At the same time, imagine if he'd come upon the NBOMes and thought they were safe due to being potent, right? I think I tend to perspecitivize it as being Shulgin -> Nichols -> Trachsel as far as the lineage of the most prolific psychedelic chemists I can think of, at least as far as innovation goes. As far as pure output goes, that'd be a trickier argument to make, is it by count of doses? Maybe just by sheer grams of output, idk. I care a lot more about the innovation, frankly.
 
I have no idea of Shulgin ever tried an NBXX himself nor what he would have thought of them. He certainly relied on more than potency (or lack thereof) to decide what was toxic. If he felt something to be physically or neurologically toxic, he made a note and refused to go higher, and he and his group didn't push doses nearly as high as many people routinely do now.

We should keep in mind that 2C-T-7 was one of his magical half-dozen, but at least a few people have died taking doses that weren't unusually high. Hence while Shulgin may have had a good intuition for what was safe and what was toxic, his judgment was not infallible.
 
Been looking into kaladana as a source of lysergol.

chestofbooks.com

Kaladana (.Kaladana; Pharbitis Seeds)

Source, Etc Kaladana consists of the dried seeds of Ipomoea hederacea, Jacquin (N.O. Convolvulaceoe), a twining plant with a large, blue corolla resembling the major convolvulus of English gardens, c...
chestofbooks.com chestofbooks.com

it was sometimes called pharbitis but it is indeed ipomoea.
 
───────────────────────
There were no visuals.

Not mild visuals. Not subtle visuals. Nothing.

No patterns.

No tracers.

No breathing walls.

No colour enhancement.

No closed-eye imagery.

No warping.

No object movement.

No visual distortion at all.

My pupils looked somewhat dilated in the mirror, but visually the world looked normal. This surprised me because I expected at least something from the amount, but the trip stayed completely mental and physical.

The lack of visuals made the trip feel lighter than expected, but it did not make it pointless. The headspace was still real and interesting, just not visual.

───

Peak

The clearest part of the trip was roughly from 11:00 pm to 1:00 am.

During this stage, I felt mentally fast, confident, and switched on. Texting felt cryptic but meaningful. Music felt better. My body felt heavy but smooth. I felt slightly dizzy and altered, but still aware of myself and what was happening.

The experience was not strong in a classic visual psychedelic way. It was more like a light LSA headspace with a strong mental confidence effect and a strange body feeling.

The main effects were:

Fast thought flow

Cryptic but meaningful texting

Strong confidence

Ego amplification

Feeling mentally powerful

Improved music

Heavy but fluid body sensation

Slight dizziness and disorientation

No visuals at all

Even though it was light, I enjoyed this part a lot.
───────────────────────
Jolly_Anything800k  2026-05-09  h‍ttps://www.reddit.com/r/LSA/comments/1t8ct02/lsa_trip_report_sprouted_mg_hb_seeds_full_honest/
 
I never bought into the whole sprouting thing. LSH is so unstable that even if you are making it'll be reverted if swallowed. and I'm sure some alkaloids are leeched to the water. I skimmed through the link you posted but I doubt he drank that. The only thing beneficial is you're not consuming the coats. I personally don't want to swallow any of it as it leads to rapid epimerization to LSA. I find that these numbers are absurd as well. If done correctly you could probably have a modest 30-40 doses with the claimed 900 used.
 
Explaining decrease of vasoconstriction with the newest methods:

"Isoergine and ergine are relatively small, highly lipophilic molecules. Ergobalansine (and its epimer Ergobalansinine) are significantly larger, preventing them from efficiently penetrating within a short timeframe."
 
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