Tryptamines The Big & Dandy DPT Thread - Part 3: So bright this light...

[perpetualdawn]

It looks like Kaempherol is really close to Quercetin. And to my surprise, Kaempherol seems to have nothing in common chemically with Camphor Oil

I've been debating whether or not I might try the amentoflavone + salvia part of it myself at least. I might give it a shot since I've been toying around with mixing things with salvia plain leaf to see what effect it has anyway. I've mostly just been unsure of it I want to try bothering with the flavonoid supplement right now, but I think I'll look into it. Not right away, but maybe not too far in the future. I do think it's an interesting experiment, and it could be kind of neat to have a kappa-opioid receptor antagonist on tap, if it turns out to seem like a truly significant one.

Let us know if you do try it out of course @Kaleida !

 

[perpetualdawn]

This is getting a bit off topic, but I can't resist: just chanced on this paper:

Inhibition of ALDH2 by quercetin glucuronide suggests a new hypothesis to explain red wine headaches​

Quercetin is one of the components of Ginko extract that we were just talking about, and this is interesting because of the Ginkgo headaches I was mentioning.

"Some alcohol consumers exhibit flushing and experience headaches, and this is attributed to a dysfunctional ALDH2 variant, the enzyme that metabolizes acetaldehyde, allowing it to accumulate"

So from what I understand, ALDH2 is an enzyme that breaks down acetaldehyde, an acetaldehyde is a nasty metabolize of ethanol that causes headaches and discomfort.

"quercetin-3-glucuronide, a typical circulating quercetin metabolite, inhibits ALDH2"

So it's possible that Ginkgo extract has enough quercetin in it to inhibit ALDH2. However, I was getting Ginkgo headaches without drinking ethanol (aside from the ethanol in the extract - which is hard to imagine would be enough?) so it doesn't quite all add up.

 

[Kaleida]

It looks like Kaempherol is really close to Quercetin. And to my surprise, Kaempherol seems to have nothing in common chemically with Camphor Oil

Let us know if you do try it out of course @Kaleida !

That's funny, I wouldn't have made that connection lol.

And will do!

Yeah, there's a lot of chemicals known that are in that family or close to it. Another one that looks different enough that you might not immediately make the connection but which you may have heard about anyway is resveratrol.

Ironically, when you first made your most recent post here I was already thinking about pointing out the fact that resveratrol is a component of red wine, heh. Great minds think alike I suppose.

This is getting a bit off topic, but I can't resist: just chanced on this paper:

Inhibition of ALDH2 by quercetin glucuronide suggests a new hypothesis to explain red wine headaches​

Quercetin is one of the components of Ginko extract that we were just talking about, and this is interesting because of the Ginkgo headaches I was mentioning.

"Some alcohol consumers exhibit flushing and experience headaches, and this is attributed to a dysfunctional ALDH2 variant, the enzyme that metabolizes acetaldehyde, allowing it to accumulate"

So from what I understand, ALDH2 is an enzyme that breaks down acetaldehyde, an acetaldehyde is a nasty metabolize of ethanol that causes headaches and discomfort.

"quercetin-3-glucuronide, a typical circulating quercetin metabolite, inhibits ALDH2"

So it's possible that Ginkgo extract has enough quercetin in it to inhibit ALDH2. However, I was getting Ginkgo headaches without drinking ethanol (aside from the ethanol in the extract - which is hard to imagine would be enough?) so it doesn't quite all add up.

This is news to me but apparently resveratrol modulates this enzyme too. I wonder if this is common among these molecules.

The side effects from improper metabolism of ethanol by ALDH2 are no joke. Common wisdom apparently claims that these kinds of side effects are more common in people of Asian descent and one of my favorite YouTubers who is half Asian once had a heart attack from having just a few beers because he gets this so badly. I don't consider myself an expert but apparently this is the specific problem linked to the dysfunctional ALDH2 variant you mentioned, or that's what science seems to think currently anyway.

I don't actually know enough to really confidently make any claims about whether or not the effects of quercetin on ALDH2 could cause this alone, but it is an interesting find. For what it's worth, ethanol and acetaldehyde are both endogenous substances in the human body. There's actually a rare physical disorder called auto-brewery syndrome where someone's body produces far too much endogenous ethanol and they are simply intoxicated from it at all times to the point that they may even fail a drunk driving test. All drug humor jokes that could arise from that aside, it sounds like a miserable condition to have.

I'm afraid I can't really answer whether I think that might be the link to why you get headaches from Ginkgo biloba, but I do find it interesting and would be curious to hear more if you find more possible links (although perhaps the conversation should be taken elsewhere). It's been a long time since I looked into flavonoids really other than when I was looking up amentoflavone but I might have to look into them more in general again because they do seem pharmacologically very interesting.

 

[aag]

I had the most intense and terrifying trip of my life.

Dose: 150 mg of moclobemide (MAOI) and 150 mg of DPT insufflated an hour later. Let this be a warning to you that this substance is no joke.

Given the amount of powder and my sensitive nose, I didn't have much trouble snorting that much, which was a big plus. Unfortunately, my nose was clogged for a good few hours afterwards, long after the trip was over. This also influenced my later hallucinations.

The first effects appeared after 5 minutes and there was no sign of impending disaster. I got up from the computer, texted my friends that I was going to lie down and listen to music, and so I did. I was lying there, watching increasingly vivid visuals, but at some point, I started feeling extremely suffocated and that something was wrong. I felt like I was about to have a heart attack and couldn't get enough oxygen. I decided to get up from bed and go to the balcony for some fresh air. This is where the real horror began, and I don't fully remember what happened after that.

I wandered around the apartment, panicking that I was suffocating. I stripped naked, I don't know why… Maybe I thought it would help. I desperately wanted to free myself from that feeling and felt trapped in my own body. I think I was walking around, screaming and begging for help, or maybe even for death. I just wanted it to be over.
Another flash of memory – deciding to take some benzos. I went to my medicine drawer and stood there frozen because I didn't know what to do. I knew I needed to take benzos, but I didn't know what a drawer was, what benzos were, hands, nothing... complete disorientation. Somehow, I managed to figure out how to open the drawer and which package contained the benzos, and I took exactly 4 mg of eszopiclone.
I don't remember what happened next, but I think I went to bed to wait it out. The next thing I remember is feeling an imminent puke coming without warning. Thankfully, I instinctively stuck my head out of bed, so I didn't throw up all over it. I assume I must have gotten up and run to the bathroom, vomiting everywhere along the way. Imagine having an ego-death trip and suddenly you have to puke. It was a nightmare. Typically, I convinced myself that I was vomiting my insides, and when I looked in the mirror, I saw blood pouring out of every hole in my face. I especially felt like blood was flowing from my nose, caused by the unpleasant feeling of a clogged nose from the nasal intake. I was completely sure it was the end, my body had given up, and I was dying. I wanted to call an ambulance, but luckily, the trip was so intense that making a phone call was too complicated for me. Then I somehow convinced myself that I had called an ambulance, and they were on their way. I thought, "Well, the day had to come eventually. I've been using drugs so much that I finally overdid it." Later, I saw myself in a hospital, doctors examining me, etc. – but in reality, it was just hallucinations.

If I had been tripping with someone, I would probably have begged them to call an ambulance. But when the benzos started to kick in and the need to vomit passed, I lay down in bed and watched the visuals. Despite taking benzos, I was still having a powerful trip on a verge of losing consciousness.
My visions were beautiful – I saw abstract scenes that carried the following message: All elements of human society are interdependent and form cycles, and this pattern has existed for thousands of years. DPT showed me a convincing evidence that everything people do today has its analog in something people did 50,000 years ago. The visions also convinced me that we ourselves are a part of God. The visions looped. It was like the vision would start with the thesis "Man needs art, so..." and end with "...so art needs man." - with a lot of other conclusions in between and it all made the perfect sense and was mind blowing. It was a mental loop that I couldn't escape. It's hard to describe in words because it was something beyond the understanding of a sober person. Anyway, the message conveyed by these visions was very convincing, incredible, and beautiful.