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The Big & Dandy DOC Thread (Part 1)

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Wow..

welll anyway since so many people are tripping on DOC often, at low or high doses do you notice the super enhanced, incredibly high quality vision? Its like your brain's visual area's are operating at high res mode for FINE detail and color (like a 100 trillion megapixel digital camera) but just like a CRT computer monitor the frame rate seems to drop way down, depending on quality.

I tend to get this more noticeable during the comedown phase, or after peak, i can only see snapshots every 1/2 second or so, but its the best vision i've ever seen in my life. Not good for fast activities where you need to see things fast though...
 
Yeah, it improved my vision I'd say, though perhaps less dramatically than you report. However, in the dark I feel that my vision is reduced, just because of the patterns and colors swirling about, obscuring what I could normally only vaguely see. I love the color enhancement as well.

Also, man, the DOC visuals are something else. I get some sort of "magic eye" effect with them sometimes, too. I'll see, for example, shining bars of light when I look at the bathtub, but they appear to be floating somewhere in the space between it and me.
 
So far, my only experience with DOC was low, 1.6mg (+/- 5%).

I was suprised at the brevity of the peak effects, given the long overall duration - the peak visual and mental changes were present for at most 3 hours, then tailing off quite quickly after that.

I found it very lethargic in therapeutic terms - any attempts to do serious cognititve delving was met with a kind of "ah I just can't really be bothered" by both body and mind. This may have been to do with the unpleasent background GI disturbances which were present throughout the experience, which tinged my thought processes negatively.

However, at t+11 hrs, I insufflated ~200mg ketamine, and had a very pleasent experience - the imagery was multilayered and complex as always, but included anrogeny, guitar feedback, and deserts (no doubt helped by listening to Earth Phase 3: Thrones and Dominions - specifically "Agni Detonating over the Thar Desert").

After recovering from that, I was treated to some helpful insights towards my own attitude to mortality, and felt suggested that this would be a good subject to explore again, as well as some timely re-framing of some of my harder to live with personal attitudes.

These insights were not particulary deep, but very welcome, and helpful pointers to further areas of exploration.
 
I find my DOC experiences to be much the same, even at dosages up to 4mg (the highest I've gone). I always intend to do some work and writing, but I can never seem to be bothered, instead being more driven to simply experience whatever is in front of me. I find it at once both frustrating and refreshing.
 
Why has this chemical just been "discovered" It just seems odd that all these unresearched chemicals have been around so long, yet DOC has just gained extreme popularity in the last few months. I remember seeing a post asking about it, then a few weeks later everyone on the block had tested it! Just seems kinda wierd, is there a legitimate explination or is it just about what supply companies offer.

Before a few months ago very few bluelighters had researched DOC and now there is 45 pages of chat about it and it doesnt look like things are slowing down.
 
there was an insane amount of hype in the beginning. I was skeptical about it, but after trying it, I've discovered the hype was well deserved.
 
Why has this chemical just been "discovered" It just seems odd that all these unresearched chemicals have been around so long, yet DOC has just gained extreme popularity in the last few months. I remember seeing a post asking about it, then a few weeks later everyone on the block had tested it! Just seems kinda wierd, is there a legitimate explination or is it just about what supply companies offer.
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Its because even though Shulgin invented/tested most of these and reported on them, its up to people (chemists that are already going to, or are making these things) to take the risk and decide hmm lets see, i could brew up some DOB because that one is known, or pick something not so known that i can make?

People have probably made DOC before (the bees etc) ate it and loved it, but just no reports got out into the 'public' like this.

I know people are always making shit, but often its something already known to be good.. with most chem suppliers they took a look at P/Tihkal (and if there's any info on the net) and picked some to have made that probably looked good or ones that Shulgin had a lot to say about.

Hehh... i dunno but i sure wish somebody out there would fuck around with the psilocin molecule and try to make some analog that retains the N,N-DMT but arrange something new on the 4 position so its at least an analog but hopefully a lot like psilocin or at least retains that "DMTish" quality.
 
^^ Well 4-aco-dmt might degrade into psilocin, probably not much I read 4-AcO-DMT is pretty stable moreso than psilocybin but who knows.. Yeah i'd LOVE this to be available but i highly doubt any RC company would make it, if there's a possibility of it degrading into a Sch. I. (outside the body).

I don't know how hard it would be for someone to make 4-MeO-DMT just to taste it, or 4-methyl or even 4-Fluoro or something, would be nice to see reports on the effects. I've tasted TMT or alpha-methyl-DMT (DMT with another methyl on the alpha position) and it was much better than AMT but the extra methyl being on the N,N side of the molecule totally changes its action - felt a lot more like DiPT to me, with some similar sound distortions but different, never got to take it again or push the dose up - but i heard it does kick ass at the right dose.

I guess anything on the 4 position that keeps it from being eaten by MAO and won't degrade into psilocin would be stuff i'd wanna try out :).

Also curious what 4-HO/AcO/PO-NMT would be like alone, all thats said about baeocystin i ever found was "its like psilocin". Well if Shulgin is right about psilocybin and that the phosphoryloxy group has to be chopped off and for psilocin to be active, but the acetoxy group doesn't (4-aco-mipt/dipt or the HO versions are different drugs), then its possible 4-AcO-DMT might feel a tad different, since it can get into the brain before any conversion to HO.

Uh, guess this is off topic :).
 
I don't know how hard it would be for someone to make 4-MeO-DMT just to taste it, or 4-methyl or even 4-Fluoro or something, would be nice to see reports on the effects.
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If there are any synthetic chemists reading this thread, how about being adventurous and synthesizing 4-vinyl-DMT. You only have to look at the 'acid, dragonflies...' thread for reasoning behind it.

(becomes a desparate little pleader!)
 
Dunno how people can do DOx compounds so often. They are so long-lasting that, for me anyway, it is out of teh question to do them regularly - even on a monthly basis would feel way too often for me. I find them more stressful than 2Cs and even most tryptamines. And I can imagine there's a huge tolerance with it. If it takes the body that long to metabolise the stuff, it is not surprising that tolerance will remain for quite some time afterwards. Up to 2 weeks, maybe more even?? Even with 2Cs done weekly I found that some minimal tolerance issue remains.

Seems to me DOC and the liek are not made to be ingested so often... tolerance being one reason, the long duration and body stress factor (that some have reported on) being another.

But maybe I'm just too old physically and mentally to want to ingest something that strong too often. ;)
 
When I first got my DOC, I did it 3 weekends in a row, each time on Friday night. I noticed a VERY slight tolerance, but each dose (2mg, 3mg, then 4mg) was substantially stronger than the last. The thing that was reduced, however, was the later stage of clarity and comprehension. With my first 2mg dose, it was tremendous, and I felt like my mind had been clarified to a shocking extent. it was truly awesome. The next time the peak was more intense, but the later phase was less euphoric, and the third time, (with 4mg) the peak was so intense I can hardly remember parts of it, but the later phase was almost nothing like it was with the first experience. it was still enjoyable but didn't have that "sparkle" of the first experience.
 
I used DOC for a third time a couple of weeks ago. I dosed 5.5 mg at 7:00 PM and, not even expecting to, dosed off at about 6:30 am till about 8:30 am. I had just layed in bed in a rather content state, still somewhat awe inspired, not really expecting to get any sleep, but just resting my body. The two hours of sound sleep was a pleasant surprise. I wasn't planning on being productive in the following day after the trip, but for me two hours sleep vs. no sleep at all is the difference between feeling a little off and feeling like shit.

This was quite a contrast from my first DOC trip, where I found the effects speedy and uncomfortable. I think it just shows you the power of the mind over the body. During the first trip the dose was too low to impress me with psychedelic effects, and so I dwelled on the uncomfortable sensations in my body, only making them worse.

I spent most of the peak of the trip going for a walk in the park, it was a mild clear night. I got lost in thinking about numerous thought experiments in physics, in particular information theoretic approaches to developing QM as a principle theory. This is a problem some theoretical physicists have been working on the last 15 years or so, mainly due to the advent of quantum computing, which I've been studying over the last few months. While I certainly didn't come up with any great revelations, I found this drug profoundly useful for these types of contemplations in physics.

For example, for split moment contemplating the gravity/acceleration postulate that underlies general relativity, the nature of hyperbolic geometry (curved space time) became as immediately intuitive to me as euclidean geometry normally is. In fact, I had never visualized hyperbolic geometry so clearly. However, this is certainly not a drug to grab a pencil and piece of paper and start writing out math or physics equations. I could 'see' hyperbolic geometry with clarity but no way could I do proofs in it, just like one can typically 'see' euclidean geometry but doing actual proofs in it is another issue. Still, it was great just to 'see' it like I had never seen it before.

The clarity of and depth insight on this drug is amazing. I suspect this drug can be a good tool for almost any deep contemplation you wish to have. But preserving that clarity while translating such insights into sober terminology is another challenge entirely.
 
I have been looking over the data I have received so far on DOC, and it looks interesting. Assuming there is not some sort of super-hype placebo effect or large response bias driving the data, this really is a very powerful psychedelic compound. The PiHKAL entry where someone talked about “This is what I might call an archetypical psychedelic. Everything is there in spades…” seems to have hit the nail on the head. Then again, I just read on another board a post by TokeTrip about how some teenagers under 18 all went to the hospital on account of taking massive (and possibly “eyeballed”) doses of DOC. They reportedly took 8 mg., 15 mg., & 25 mg.! This one is starting to sound like its DOM cousin… potentially of great use to some and soon to become the bane of ER staff (much to the joy of the DEA, Dr. Phil, Oprah, & co.). If this should start regularly showing up on blotter… ugh…

I B

PS (Reportedly at least one of the admitted persons was tested for drugs, but did not test + for anything)
 
While 2,0mg of DOC produced only the slightest treshold effects, 2,5mgs produced very noticeable effects that were clearly pronounced with cannabis.

There was very little bodyload, the comeup was smooth and no anxiety at all. A relaxed and a pretty euphoric mind state, very little confusion. There was some muscle tension in the muscles of the back and neck but it didn't get too uncomfortable. No real visuals, although with eyes closed there would have been. I was in a public place so I was reluctant to keep my eyes closed for long enough to get into the visuals.

I'm unsure how steep the dosage curve after the 2,5mg point will be, I suspect 3,0mgs will produce open eye visuals and produce more confusion.

I'm also suprised that I can sleep around 6-7 hours after the comeup.
Is the insomnia closely related to the dose? What are your experiences?
 
The dosage seems to vary between people. For me, 2mg of DOC produced very few visuals but a definitely strong mental change. 2.5mg produced definite distinctive visuals and a slightly chaotic headspace. 3.2mg produced a massively strong, somewhat delerious state which I just posted a report about, with amazingly intense visuals and a peeling back of reality coupled with receptiveness to a collective reptilian consciousness. From my experience, I'd say the dose response curve is quite steep. On the other hand, some people on these boards take 10-12mg and get weaker effects than I've reported from 3.2. So it seems quite variable. Then again, I have the feeling that some people constantly exaggerate their doses, or take psychedelic every day and have a massive tolerance.

I too can sleep on DOC. It's really a very gentle psychedelic for how intense it is.
 
I find DOC very enligtening, to the point of 2c-e. Also it lacked stimulant effects, I'm very sensitive to stimulants- I don't even drink caffinated beverages and have a downright negative reaction to amphetamines.

I really believe that these drugs all work, and if someone finds them less 'enlightening' or some such crap, it's because they only took it a couple of times, in the wrong environment or state of mind. Just my very humble opinion. ;P
 
Unfortunate Updates

Recently a number of unfortunate incidents have come to my attention involving DOC. The first is a published newspaper report of several teenagers being hospitalized due to psychological abreactions. The second is a report of a death involving someone who was driving under the influence of DOC.

Excerpt from an article originally published June 1, 2006 in Michigan USA:

New drug leads to teen's overdose

… Troy officers investigated an incident involving a drug called "DOC."

It began May 24, when Bloomfield Township police officers reported a 17-year-old girl from their town was taken to the hospital for a possible drug overdose. She reportedly had been at a house on Malvern in Troy where she claimed she took the drugs. Officers responded to the home, where the 19-year-old man who lived at the home refused them entry.

While speaking with the 19-year-old, officers learned three other individuals within the home were experiencing reactions to the same substance. An 18-year-old man from Bloomfield Hills was seen walking into the walls, dazed and completely naked. He was brought to the door and taken to the hospital. Two other men from Bloomfield Township, 18 and 19 respectively, that also reportedly ingested the substance, were disoriented and dazed. They also were brought out and taken to the hospital.

The three men were evaluated and later released.

… Investigation revealed he purchased a drug called "DOC" in crystalline form, and based on information he obtained from a Web site, mixed it into a liquid and soaked art paper with the solution. He cut it into pieces and was selling and giving it away at the party.
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More discussion and the complete article can be found HERE.

Originally posted on another Forum. Quoted in entirety as posted by tc_omega:
Its getting easier and easier to buy DOC on the street. I remember just last year no one knew about it. But the internet still hasnt really put out alot of info on it. DOC gave me a whole new life perspective. But also has ruined me. My friend died while driving under the influence on it, while I was in the car. They never found it in his system though. So is it like lsd? That it just goes to your spine?

Its just kind of funny how I really want to do it again. Its great, and I recommend you do it.

Question- if i get caught with a small amount (sorry i dont sell its for personal use). Will I goto jail? Because the only way to get it is by driving and I sure as hell wont drive on it after what happen.
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I am attempting to confirm the veracity of this report, including the actual date, location, etc.

It looks like DOC is both increasingly available and increasingly being used by people with little detailed knowledge or responsibility. I have said it before, but it probably bears repeating: This one may well have “the glory and the doom sealed up in it” like its methyl cousin.

I B

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EDIT: Some additional news articles about DOC are mentioned HERE.
 
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I've read through some of this thread, some of the info on Erowid, even looked itup in PihKAL or TihKaL. But I still don't know enough about it yet to decide whether it's worth trying... So I h ave some questions.
1) Is DOC the kind of psychedelic that can offer deep psychological insights?
2) Is it fun just to explore the DOC experience? Does it offer good visuals? Does it enhance creativity and the imagination? Does it enhance the ability to visualize or mentally image something from imagination or memory? enhance Kundalini yoga practice?
3) From reading Shulgin's brief report on it, I've learned that 1.5 - 3.0 or so mg DOC lasts about 20 hours. That's a long time to set aside. So if I were to take it but got bored with the trip after 4 or 5 hours, would I be able to sleep? to read a book? go mountain biking? or to work on that computer science project, for example?
 
In response to your questions, socko:

1) Yes, it is for sure. However, personally I've found it to be a "noisy" psychedelic, in that it provides you with so much visual and aural stimulation that it makes it difficult to concentrate. It also contains quite a bit of mind fuck at 3.5-4mg, which is also where it starts to get profound. The result is that I've not yet determined how to really let myself go during the experience after about 5 or 6 trips with it. I've often ended up getting stuck in a loop of doing the same things over and over again, stuck on the same minute of the clock for seemingly the majority of the peak. But DOC is really, really powerful, and I think it allows you to connect with your subconscious/unconscious mind very easily if you can work out how, which is the same as the universal consciousness. it doesn't seem to deal with personal issues much like I find the 2Cs to do. At least this has been my experience.

2) Yes, the state is quite fun to explore. it's shockingly intense, while remaining pretty emotionally steady and non-scary. I've had great trips that ended up being primarily recreational, just because the body high feels pretty good, not too stimulating (though definitely stimulating), and the visual effects are tremendous. Also keep in mind that, for me, it took until the 4th trial to really fully be able to enter the state. That trial was with 4mg and was the first really hard trip I had on it. From then on, each new trip has picked up where the last one left off, and it's gotten more and more intense and serious and deep each time. Also, it only takes me 3mg now to get to at least the same level that the 4mg trip got me to.

3) Definitely, absolutely not at 4 or 5 hours! it builds pretty quickly, and I'm usually starting to peak by 2 hours or just after, but the peak reaches a peak at about 5-6 hours at which point I'm fairly incapacitated, and frankly unable to be bored, due to the intense psychedelic stimulation and mindfuck. After about 8 hours I can sometimes fall into a sleeplike trance which definitely isn't full sleep (as I usually take it at around 11 at night), and then the whole next day I'm lightly tripping. I go back down to a +2 at about T+8 to 10, and ride that out until about T+16, and then I'll be at a +1 again until I actually sleep, no matter how long that is (it's been up to T+30 after ingestion). I personally really, really enjoy this day after light trip though, although some people find it annoying. Once I reach a +2 I could go out and do stuff, but there's a fair amount of pupil dilation and paranoia when in public. During the day, the visuals from DOC while outside are miraculous and truly beautiful beyond words. I've driven at T+10 before but I don't recommend it, although I ended up driving for about 3 hours into the mountains.

DOC is one of my all-time favorite psychedelics, but in my opinion it's difficult to use constructively, and in fact I've not yet figured out exactly how to do so. Although I have made progress. You can search for my posted experiences in Trip Reports if you want, as I think they illustrate the experience that I have on it pretty well.
 
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