The Big & Dandy DOC Thread (Part 1)

[reformer]

Not your Grandma's Psyche

^ This is the biggest concern.

People not knowing what to expect, and not planning on 23 hours of proper setting.

It's a shame, I feel that this round of DOC will be a harbinger of doom for the scene, for this very reason.

Some asshole is going to rail up like 50 mg and then it's Blaine Part Deux.

I mean, it's almost as if the novelty is making people want to try it, rather than the reported effects!!

How often would someone really want to trip with an amphet push for over 16-18 or more hours?

I am sure that some small sample of good DOC will finally find it's way to me, but despite having some fair amount of experience, I cannot even begin to imagine when I would find time to properly research it! Each incremental upward tick in dose takes like a day and a half to fully characterize.

All we can really hope for is that 1) No one misrepresents the material as something else (although, hopefully word is hitting the Lucy-Lovers that misrepresented DOC blotters might be headed their way); 2) Everyone who gets it does the proper amount of research before allergy testing and then starting up small with a trip sitter and benzos on hand...

...So, yeah, we're screwed, because there is no way this perfect scenario will play out in the real world.

The history of the 60's features the horrific story of DOM's introduction to the Scene quite prominently, will future tales be told of the DOC 2011 trips? Let's hope not.

 

[Liquid Sunshine]

In this thread there is a lot of comparison to LSD; I was wondering if there were any key ways the visuals vary qualitatively? Obviously, different people different substantive effects.

 

[IamMe90]

^ This is the biggest concern.

People not knowing what to expect, and not planning on 23 hours of proper setting.

It's a shame, I feel that this round of DOC will be a harbinger of doom for the scene, for this very reason.

Some asshole is going to rail up like 50 mg and then it's Blaine Part Deux.

I mean, it's almost as if the novelty is making people want to try it, rather than the reported effects!!

How often would someone really want to trip with an amphet push for over 16-18 or more hours?

I am sure that some small sample of good DOC will finally find it's way to me, but despite having some fair amount of experience, I cannot even begin to imagine when I would find time to properly research it! Each incremental upward tick in dose takes like a day and a half to fully characterize.

All we can really hope for is that 1) No one misrepresents the material as something else (although, hopefully word is hitting the Lucy-Lovers that misrepresented DOC blotters might be headed their way); 2) Everyone who gets it does the proper amount of research before allergy testing and then starting up small with a trip sitter and benzos on hand...

...So, yeah, we're screwed, because there is no way this perfect scenario will play out in the real world.

The history of the 60's features the horrific story of DOM's introduction to the Scene quite prominently, will future tales be told of the DOC 2011 trips? Let's hope not.

I honestly think you're being melodramatic/exaggerating. DOC has been on the scene for quite awhile and we haven't seen anything remotely like this. DOM's fiasco introduction was somewhat unique, anyway.

 

[Survived Abortion]

...So, yeah, we're screwed, because there is no way this perfect scenario will play out in the real world.

Not at all. DOC has been around a good while now, and nobody has had any trouble. I wouldn't be so hasty as to extrapolate from one isolated incident of reckless and irresponsible behaviour - involving a different compound - that the rest of the psychedelic chemical scene is "screwed".

I'm very much looking forward to this new batch of DOC. It's just perfect timing as well, since the weather is getting sunny and gorgeous. I feel pumped for summer.

edit: IamMe90 beat me to it :D

 

[bluffythefluffy]

Just seems like maybe "the scene" has somehow devolved or something.

The NBOMes weren't prone to cause tragedy because of the of the impossibility of oral dosage, so they aren't too worrying.

The DOXs are becoming quite available for the first time in a while and for some reason I sense doom now.

Hopefully I'm wrong. Just please explore safely everyone!

 

[PhyllipThylamine]

This does sound like an interesting compound, maybe a festival sorta trip, once famaliarity has been established.

Obviously, chems that are active in such small doses do pose greater risk of foolish overdose so I kinda understand the paranoia of the more experienced BLer's.

Everyone be safe with powerful NBOM'es & DOxx type compounds, lets be careful out there!

 

[HofmannBlotter]

Thanks for your impressive answer ! Yeah seriously don't fuck with DOx cause they are really long lasting. I like DOx (DOI was the 1st i tried) and really OMG beware because it last long and if you having a bad trip good luck ! Be carefull when dosage and use liquid measurement aswell ! Don't fuck please don't fuck with this compound. Don't triy any DOx for the first time ! Go for something more forgiven than these chemicals.

Better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Survived Abortion]

The gatekeepers of psychedelics are trying to scare everyone away again.

 

[HofmannBlotter]

Not really. Just be cautious with these chemicals cause they only need a very small amount to be fully active.

 

[kobilica]

I agree with HofmannBlotter, stuck in 24h trip would suck mayor balls ,and you may get depression/anxiety for quite some time from this experience.

I am going to order that DOC (1000mg) and share it among experienced psychedelic users.
But first of all I am going to test the shit out of it. I never give out compounds that I don't know what it does to you.

 

[kobilica]

1000 mgs of DOC should last 10-15 years. Thats at doses of 1.5-2 mgs ONCE A WEEK. That alone speaks for itself. Trips are easily able to become physically rigorous as well as mentally and emotionally. Most people won't want to trip every week simply because of the duration. You're practically devoting an entire day (12-18 hours) to tripping your balls off.

A gram of DOC would last me at least 5 years. Compensating for other people who might be benefiting from it as well.

Good luck. I'd be tickled to death just to get my hands on 50mgs. That could last me about a year or better if used in the proper context.

Don't worry, tripping every week like that would get sick. It's just nice to have supply (trip everytime I want to).

Also, is 3mg good starting dose for experienced? I am experienced with loads of 2c-x,lsd, and many other chems that aren't psychedelics.

 

[kobilica]

kobilica See my above post. I re-edited it to add any information you may need.

Thanks dude. I have read it all, and I have been studying DOC before extensively, but am still skeptical. I am skeptical because there is a lot of negativity around it, but big percent that negative reports come from stupidity.
So, does this means I should still be skepticals if idiots manage to dose 10mg+?

I am not planning nor have balls to dose 10mg ever. The most I might ever dose is 3mg. For beginning I will dose 1.5mg, I really doubt it will be able to turn into terror experience, especially on nice sunny day :D.

We are always planning if we are going to trip. Period. We don't want bullshit when we are tripping .

bullshit = cops, anti-drug people, people we hate, etc...

Also, you said DOC should be handled as LSD... as in terms of potency or in terms of effects?

I think you should just keep it simple, and say : Set & Setting

No bad thoughts in your head &
Good place without bullshit for 24h, and one day after for rest.

Saying that you will get your ass kicked because you want to use DOC recreationally is... absurd . If dose is ok, set is ok, setting is ok, why should I get my ass kicked?

(all I spoke up there is for users that already have at least some experience with psyches)

Also no-one should fear something they take, because that can have negative effect on trip. But as you said, handle with care and respect, absolutely!

Now another question, does DOC trip really consists of two parts, first one : intensive mindfuck, and second one : extreme lucidity / peace?

 

[IamMe90]

Let me repeat DOC has been on the scene at various points for years.

These prices are not dramatically different. Most people who know nothing about DOC/are not experienced won't even think to buy it or look for it. I would understand your concern if this were some great new precedent, but it's not. I just don't see the huge worry.

I support posts like forbidden's because they are informative and can only minimize harm. However, posts like reformer's - let's not freakin fear monger here. that's useless and melodramatic

 

[allium]

I know that one of the main goal of BL is harm reduction.
But harm reduction shouldn't be fun reduction.

Why start with 0.5 mg? I've rechecked PiHKAL and it states dosage range as 1.5 - 3.0 mg. Why not start with 1.5 mg and prepare yourself for possibly powerful experience(actually, you don't know how powerful is any psychedelic for you, until you tried it).

 

[HofmannBlotter]

My question is why start at 1.5 when you'll have AT LEAST 50 mgs... You know that it's going to be intense. Why jump in head first?

How hard is it to take .5 mgs one day and a couple days later up the dose? At a small dose like .5 it would only take a day or two before you could get the full effects of another dose.

It's just responsible.

I just think that people are going to really underestimate the power of this chemical. If it was DOI coming on the market you'd see me being twice as adamant.

2C-i is a drug for "fun"...weed is a drug for "fun"...etc... DOx aren't fun-time toys...It's only prudent that you should pace yourself. But you do whatever you want. I'm sure you'll all be fine. Let me know how it works out for you.

You touched the right point

 

[abrad84]

If it was DOI coming on the market you'd see me being twice as adamant.

DOI has been available again for an even lower price for about 6 months now.

I do take your point though. The demographic of people likely to get their hands on this has changed somewhat since it was last available. There seems to be a lot of kids taking silly doses of things like 2c-e and of course the bathsalt/MDPV thing has bred a culture of irresponsibility. That, coupled with the hype surrounding DOC could lead to incidents but I don't think we need to panic just yet.

And yes, take .5mg (or less) for your first time as an allergy test if nothing else (you should be doing this with any new compound anyway). TBH, I find it doesn't get very interesting until 2mg+, .5mg would barely be threshold, but be careful!

DOx aren't fun-time toys...

Not a toy, no. But if taken in the proper context, DOx compounds can be lots of fun.

 

[allium]

How hard is it to take .5 mgs one day and a couple days later up the dose?

Quite difficult for some people. Psychedelic experience is not only about dose, but also about right set and setting. I have a sample of DOI, which I haven't touched for 2 months already, despite I really would like to try it.
So thank you, I would stay within dose range recommended by Shulgin.

You know that it's going to be intense

I don't know. I haven't tried it yet.

2C-i is a drug for "fun"...weed is a drug for "fun"...etc... DOx aren't fun-time toys...It's only prudent that you should pace yourself. But you do whatever you want. I'm sure you'll all be fine. Let me know how it works out for you.

And I am pretty sure that most people who will try DOC in the near future have some experience with powerful psychedelics, and not just 2C-I and weed.
Many people are going to try DOC have experience with 2C-E, which isn't toy too. Or is it for you?

I am not against harm reduction, but this is really too much harm reduction.

DOI has been available for an even lower price for about 6 months now.

True, I was like this when I saw DOC prices.

 

[PhyllipThylamine]

How hard is it to take .5 mgs one day and a couple days later up the dose? At a small dose like .5 it would only take a day or two before you could get the full effects of another dose.

It's just responsible.

Well, if my man gets this in as he plans I may have the opportunity to sample this rare compound. I can assure you Mr Fruit that I am an intelligent, grown-up kid, that I have been researching this compound & it's relatives for more than 10 years & I've read every word you've said in this thread. I have taken it to heart. I consider myself highly experienced but am extremely wary of such a powerful substance & should I get hold of 10mgs I'm reducing my starting dose from 1.25mg to .75mg & as my lady friend is new to this sorta thing, she's getting the .5mg dose you advise.

Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences. Unlike some, I'm not offended by your efforts to warn off the foolhardy! In fact, good job!

 

[Survived Abortion]

@forbiddenisdefruit: Get a hold of yourself mate, for goodness sake. Every single drug known to man (pretty much) has a level of toxicity past which you'll damage yourself or die, if you are physically able to consume a such a dose. You may as well go on a rant about any drug with which you can easily consume a toxic dose.

Who are you to tell people they should only use 1.5-2mg, once a week at the most. Who are you to tell people what doseages they should start taking. Most people will want to dose far higher than 0.5mgs, who are you to tell them otherwise.

It's ridiculous and unfair to say that most DOC users are going to be ill-read "kids". The demographic of people you are talking about - those uneducated beyond coke, smack, and crack - will most likely never see DOC, and if they do, it will probably be in small amounts in single hits where it is explained to them exactly what it is. It's nobody's business to decide who is responsible enough to take drugs. Once again, DOC has been around for years, you're a little late on jumping down it's throat. The party has been going on for ages and everyone's doing just fine.

Give your fellow human beings the benefit of the doubt and respect their ability to judge for themselves, rather than insulting everyone's intelligence. I'm not going to sit on a DOx compound for months just to try to prove to myself or anyone else that I have the respect and that I'm worthy to partake of it.

And about the price; it is simply a principle in the psychedelic drug scene that no compound should be available only to those who have cash flowing out of their areshole. I don't see how that makes it any more likely to fall in to the hands of "kids".

Elitist and alarmist nonsense.

 

[Survived Abortion]

forbiddenisdefruit, just becasue you had a bad time on DOI doesn't mean everyone else will have a bad time on DOC or DOI. Your posts are extremely biased towards tarnishing the image of a perfectly good psychedelic drug. I have used DOC before and it is nothing like what you make it out to be.

If you had a nightmare with DOI, it was because you couldn't handle that particular experience. Not because nobody else can handle it. If you have demons inside your skull, that does not translate to everyone else having a bad time. On the contrary, DOC is a beautiful trip; long-lasting, yes, but something wonderful that - in my experience - I didn't want to come down from. Quite different from the gruelling 24 hours you make it out to be.

There's no need to insult everyone by telling them they can't make sensible decisions by themselves. Most people will do an allergy test on any substance they take. After that, it's up to them to decide an optimum dose to start with, and most people find PiHKAL and TiHKAL, along with erowid, very helpful in this regard.

That's what the community is missing. I feel like no one takes the time to do their own research anymore...the check one wiki article and think they know the drugs they are taking...or they come here and read one thread assuming that it's valid enough information to base their life choices on. When I first started using drugs I would spend hours just learning about them and what other people had to say about them. Granted I didn't have any sources back then...but even if I would have I might have still been as inclined to do research. Now days kids are getting ahold of sources without even really educating themselves on the products...they hear that it makes you trip and they assume it's like fuckin robitussin or something.

Ridiculous. There are many thousands of people using psychedelic compounds, and you base this assumption off of what - a few badly written press reports about teenagers freaking out. You have no idea what other people are reading and researching

DOx chemicals should be treated like acid. They are only about 8-10 times as potent (based on a 200 microgram dose of acid versus a 2 milligram dose of DOx) and they should be equally feared and respected. This is unlike any 2C-x compound you've ever done and the only one comes close to comparing in potency is 2C-P. Don't even think about comparing it to a tryptamine experience...the duration differential alone blows that idea to hell.

The fact simply is that if you decide to abuse this drug you're in for the most extended, intense, and ravaging experience of you life. Hands down. You're likely to get your ass quite handed to you.

And finally, stop being so serious about it. DOC is fun and beautiful, not fearful and frightening. I'm not trying to be blasé or intentionally nonchalant. However, these things are meant to be fun as well as being powerful tools. They are not meant to be feared in the way you are planting the seeds of inception.

I'm not so complacent as to think that bad experiences with drugs will never happen to me again. I've had enough 'rude awakenings' myself to know this. However, obsessing about potentially negative outcomes and crawling under your bed in fear only sets you up for a miserable time. Imposing nanny-level protection over others doesn't make it any better either.

I am not against harm reduction, but this is really too much harm reduction.

That.