Tryptamines The Big & Dandy DiPT Thread

[tobala]

It won't affect the scheduling process at all. What you're doing is a good thing because the work won't be undertaken by by anyone but us "amateurs." Your work is the kind of thing that I'm sure Shulgin always wanted to see his "babies" associated with anyway.

 

[invert]

It won't affect the scheduling process at all. What you're doing is a good thing because the work won't be undertaken by by anyone but us "amateurs." Your work is the kind of thing that I'm sure Shulgin always wanted to see his "babies" associated with anyway.

Thanks. I wouldn't give up hope of interesting formal psychological research on psychedelics by 'professionals', though... I'm aware of a researcher in the UK who is in the process of getting ethical approval for a brain-scanning study on the effects of psilocybin (last I heard, it was looking promising that it would be approved); and there's a fair few such studies listed at http://maps.org/research/; but yes, it is rather easier to do informally without the hurdles of legality and ethical approval.

 

[Jabberwocky]

emergency scheduling people are massing together on the internet to use this drug

I often question the need for these types of forums

what good do they do in the end

who am I to endorse a site that supports people taking drugs.

 

[invert]

emergency scheduling people are massing together on the internet to use this drug

The tiny number of people who take this drug are sharing information with each other on the internet. That's rather different, and I don't see how that'll promote emergency scheduling.

I often question the need for these types of forums

what good do they do in the end

In the end? I don't know. But, in the mean time, they 1) promote harm reduction, by ensuring that people who do take drugs have a better idea of what they can do to minimize harm, and a better understanding of possible consequences so that they can make more informed choices; and 2) potentially provide avenues for increasing our understanding of, for example, psychedelics and their effects on human perception and cognition (whether through trip reports or more quantitative approaches). Both, I think, good things, in different ways.

If this sort of community is likely to make it harder for us to access these substances in the long run, then that is a point against such forums' existence (although not necessarily a clinching one, in my view), but I've yet to understand why you think this sort of forum increases the likelihood of scheduling, nor why scheduling would have any impact on our access to these substances. (As I guess you may be aware, pretty much the whole of PIHKAL and TIHKAL is scheduled in the UK: as tobala said, scheduling doesn't make things unavailable.)

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think its not unreasonable to hold a view that forums like these are masquerading as harm reduction boards, but actually are drug-promoting boards.

I've firmly made up my mind that for myself, using psychedelics is a great thing (largely only positive benefits with very few negative side effects, long or short). But, for other people...I am not so sure. A lot of people aren't capable of using psychedelics beneficially. How do I know the user 'next-door' to my on an internet forum is capable or incapable? Should I help her anyways?

 

[invert]

I think its not unreasonable to hold a view that forums like these are masquerading as harm reduction boards, but actually are drug-promoting boards.

Fair enough, that's not an unreasonable view. Sorry, I didn't get that that was what you were saying: thanks for clarifying.

I've firmly made up my mind that for myself, using psychedelics is a great thing (largely only positive benefits with very few negative side effects, long or short). But, for other people...I am not so sure. A lot of people aren't capable of using psychedelics beneficially. How do I know the user 'next-door' to my on an internet forum is capable or incapable? Should I help her anyways?

Of course you should help her (I'm not telling you what to do; I'm just giving my view, since you ask). Not help her to take more drugs or take more risks, but help her to reduce risks - given that she intends to take drugs - and to be knowledgeable. Whatever your concerns about what effect supposed harm reduction boards may really have, you as an individual can, with your experience and knowledge, share that with others to help them be well and safe. And part of your experience and knowledge is that you know other people are different, and may react differently: presumably that knowledge can also inform how you support other people.

 

[Xorkoth]

I'm a little conflicted on this issue. On one hand, it's clear that without forums such as this (and many, many others in existence), not many people would know about these kinds of drugs. And of course the types of people who frequent these forums are enticed by reading about the drugs... I sure was.

But ultimately, I think Bluelight anyway does a lot more good than harm. It may seem like everyone knows about these drugs now, but that's simply not true. It just seems that way because we are the types of people who look for this kind of thing, and we're spending time communicating with others like us. As it stands, I have met one single other person in my entire life outside of Bluelight who knew what ANY of the obscure psychedelics were or even realized they existed, and he only knew about 2C-B and 2C-I, and he had only heard hearsay about them. I have hardly even met anyone who knows what Erowid is. The fact (as far as I can tell) is that we are an exceedingly small percentage of the total population. If forums like this didn't exist, we'd be an even smaller percentage, but the we're talking about a statistically insignificant population in either case. And regardless, the word is out now among those who seek these kinds of things.

But imagine if forums like this didn't exist, especially this one which actually contains a fair amount of intelligent discussion and actual harm reduction, unlike many forums I have seen filled with a bunch of middle schoolers egging each other on to be as dangerous as possible. Then the only information people would be likely to get would be whatever their dealer told them, the person who managed to find these things and distribute them. And drugs are prevalent with or without drug forums, and have been for a long time. Before the Internet, it was extremely unlikely that any given drug user actually knew a damn thing about the drug they were taking... all they "knew" was whatever their friends and acquaintences told them.

So yeah, maybe having forums like this can be enticing, and of course there are members of any forum who do not practice harm reduction. But I think overall the benefits outweigh the negatives, and I also really do not believe that the harm reduction thing is just a front for drug promotion. The drug promotion is a natural by-product of the fact that we're all kind of obsessed with drugs. It's a result of drug discussion. But within that discussion comes a lot of knowledge and with knowledge comes safety and power, if you choose to see it that way.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Invert, thanks for taking the time to respond. I mostly agree with everything you said.

Xorkoth, I like your reasoning...I think it does come down to a cost-benefit analysis...does it do more good than harm? If yes, then it should stick around.

I'll try to do your experiment though. I only have a 25mg sample of DiPT a friend gave me, but I'll do the experiment beforehand and then contemplate the results after I have tried DiPT also.

 

[invert]

Invert, thanks for taking the time to respond. I mostly agree with everything you said.

Thank you. Likewise, thanks for explaining your position. Your concerns are quite understandable, in my view; personally, I can see what you mean about the potential for harm through promoting drugs, but would agree with Xorkoth's suggestion that the good outweighs the harm.

I'll try to do your experiment though. I only have a 25mg sample of DiPT a friend gave me, but I'll do the experiment beforehand and then contemplate the results after I have tried DiPT also.

Great, thanks! Here's the pilot study (for running while not on DiPT) program again, as I'm not sure which page the relevant post's on: http://diptology.pbwiki.com/f/DiPTtest0_1.zip

I'll post a final version of the experimental program (geared towards being run while on DiPT, and with more user-friendly instructions, and a few improvements here and there, hopefully) some time in the next few weeks, I expect.

But, if anyone wants to run the experiment while on DiPT before I get round to that, they could run just the first block (12 trials) of the pilot study program (before the training phase begins) and then quit the program; each time they want to run a session of it. (That's what I do when I run it on myself.) Obviously the training session would be pointless to run while on DiPT, as it would be trying to tell you what a non-DiPTified person should be hearing.

 

[invert]

I took 120 mg DiPT oral (after peak 2C-C 10 mg insufflated was added) on a 16 hours empty stomach. Very few trip notes and no quantitative data mean I won't write a trip report, probably (although if anyone has any questions about it, I'll try to answer them here), but one aspect of DiPT's effects (prior to 2C-C insufflation) I'll note here:

During the peak of DiPT's visual effects (c. t+1.30 to t+2.30, I think), I experienced stronger visuals than I can recall experiencing on DiPT before. Still nothing completely astounding, but more than the usual flashing white lights, texture enhancement and slight waviness (all present, especially the flashing which was more extreme than I'd noted on other recent doses); specifically, there were strong visual trails (temporal blurring of visual motion), but they lacked the sharp glowing bloopiness of 2C-x trails; rather they were made of watery mist.

The OEAs were as strong as ever, and took a good few hours to come down from the perceived three-semitone drop and inharmonicity, (Level 3 by t+2.00, Level 2 by t+6.00, Level 1 by t+10.00, baseline by t+14.00; some FM (vocoding) and deepening remained at t+10.00 at least); but CEAs were mostly absent, save for relatively simple modulations in the high-pitched noise, (except during the insufflated 2C-C dose - so maybe I misconstrued the peak of the DiPT - but even then, only to a relatively light degree... no complex harmonized sequences, certainly: this particular aspect of the CEAs I have only glimpsed in recent doses; though I experienced it on a few occasions in the past).

The CEAs seem rather less predictable (less simply dose-dependent) than the OEAs. Odd. I certainly gave the CEAs every opportunity to manifest, I think.

ETA: Actually, on reflection, I probably have enough memories of this to make a vaguely worthwhile brief trip report, so I'll do so some time soon, I expect.

 

[delsymfan]

Smoking DiPT, check it out

So as some of you have noted I've acquired a gram of DiPT (Which I formerly thought was DPT until trying it). I am going to use this thread to show my progress in researching this material. I love being a guinea pig.

Most reports, if not all, report the stuff being eaten. I've read a couple IM and one Sublingual. So far, havent read one smoked yet.

Anyway I have been smoking DiPT and here is what I've come to. I'd like to get some guidelines going, or at least hear some ideas from others.

What I've noticed.

First off, I smoke out of a lightbulb. I find it works pretty well. Plus it gives you a good measure of effects from the smoke. You can measure in lightbulb-ful's if you dont have good mg measurement.

I have pure freebase. And when it gets hot it melts to a brown-yellow oil. Which then vaporizes.

Whatever you DONT suck up, will retain at the bottom. Typically though, since it has picked stuff up from the moisture and air, it wont just make a pretty little rock. It starts to look like thinly smeared poop. You can reheat this though. You know its time to add more (or stop) when you cant get a thick plume of vapor inside anymore.

I find a very small sprinkle, like maybe an area to cover your pinkie-nail, will provide solid effects.

The sound effect DOES scale to dose. I find early on, it just feels like it is dropping the tone down. But after the 3rd or 4th lightbulb hit, you start noticing minor details more notable. Then get 5-6 lightbulbs in and you feel more zoned into the song as it plays.

I'd say so far I've found 20mg (eyeballed) hits me good. And I'm 215lbs if that helps.

Vocals can sound hollow and computed, or deep and bellowing. And often other notes seem unaffected.

There is a very strong rush after starting. You get a nice euphoria from the hit. You definitely have a hard time putting it down.

You find the effects stabilize about 5 minutes in and last like that for at least an hour if not 2. Vision is still wavy, hell mine is right now, everything has a nice flow to it. Very tryptamine'ish.



After a couple hours the sound starts to kinda die down. It is no longer as amusing. It will still be deep for a while though. Like 8 hours it seemed like to me I was still noticing small effects. But nowhere near as deep as the first hour.

So listen to the music in the first half hour or so, because thats when its deepest and most easily explored.

Lets chat!

 

[Delsyd]

If what you intended to buy was DPT freebase and bought DiPT on accident, are you sure that your DiPT is also freebase and not hcl?

Try taking a tiny bit and putting it in some water, if it doesnt disolve and just kinda sits on top then you have freebase.

other than that, thanks for the trip report. We dont get to many smoked DiPT reports here. Which is odd since ppl smoke DMT, DPT, MET... why not DiPT?

 

[delsymfan]

On the website it DOES say next to it freebase.

I honestly thought I had two choices, DPT freebase or DPT HCL, didnt notice that Extra ISO in the freebase one because the website had some mediocre formatting.

So I found myself with this!

Anyway yeah I find it strange that nobody seems to smoke this stuff given its similarity to like 13 other capitol named substances.

 

[Coolio]

Because hardly anyone has reported on even oral doses of DIPT.

 

[delsymfan]

Valid point coolio.

Allow me to be the first.

For Mankind!!!

 

[delsymfan]

Well I've probably hit about 50mg tonight. I'd say it was like 25-15-10. Each dose about 10-15 minutes apart. There is definitely still some left in the bulb.

The doses start losing their strongest effects after 30 minutes. So I think next time I will simply do a LOT more at once. I think the smoking provides a great body rush and a lovely feel. But doses need to be sped up if a more powerful effect is to arrive.

I had very strong tryptamine high. I looked in a mirror, and this elvish looking writting on my shirt glowed and shimmered and waved. I looked in the mirror further and thought I saw some shadow figures in the room behind me. But I would turn around and all was good.

Staring at the ceiling results in a black space opening up and it being filled with circular rainbow waves of sound. Like speakers pulsing, or something that looks like a megaphone, but round. Like a pie of megaphone slices. Hard to explain. The effects were subtle, not blinding.

Anyway, its been an hour since my last dose and I'm feeling pretty good. I dont really feel super uplifted although the music still has interesting features.

It does seem that the crack cocaine effect is here. Like I'll smoke, and chill for 5-10 minutes, but once that refreshing tryptamine body rush leaves, I crave more. I smoke more, and feel great. Then eventually my mind loses that glow.

Also interesting about music. It does NOT seem to effect everything equally. I'm listening to Mastodon, and there is almost no difference at all! Also, the Number Twelve Looks Like You sounds identical to themselves.

It seems the more hardcore intense crazy death metal the music you listen to, the less it is changed.

But music like MGMT and techno type stuff incurs amazing changes. If you listen to any acoustic, its going to sound really weird.

The one thing that is for sure. It seems DiPT will help separate the bad singers from the good. Because a few songs I've heard sound terrible. And many are just meh. But some really captivate with their ability to hold a perfect sound, despite being in such a deep pitch and being so morphed.

Its almost like truly good vocals will shine through the DiPT nomatter what.

Anyway, enjoy perusing my DiPT thread. I'll continue my research here.

 

[Coolio]

Delsymfan, perhaps the crack cocaine effect will go away once you reach a full on psychedelic dose.

 

[delsymfan]

Thx for the interest all. I like going where few have gone before.

The addictive effect was manageable. I was able to kinda ignore it the 2nd time.

And we are slowly trying to find the magic doses here. I have read a lot of oral reports where dose curve seems to get very sharp around 70 mg. Many reports from 70 to 100 seem way more intense. But that is oral dosage.


Wednesday night is probably my next trip on this. If not thursday. Either should work. I'll try smoking 35-40 mg all at once. Non stop until that damn lightbulb is clean! I really want to explore the potential psychedelia this thing has to offer.

 

[Solipsis]

Interesting exploration indeed, DiPT has always tickled my fancy but until now the price made it a bit unappealing.
If through this route you aren't stuck with sound effects that can get boring plus you waste less substance this suddenly gets a lot more interesting!
How could we have missed this? Good call

 

[Coolio]

When I get around to trying DIPT I'll probably IV some.