Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Diphenidine Thread

[Dioxy]

Intriguing report. Based on what's surfaced so far, it's my view that anyone looking for a 'psychedelic' dissociative will be disappointed. The feeling of 'nothingness' and relaxation, however, which I would equate to a meditative state, is something that other arylcyclohexylamine users (including myself) find alluring.

 

[THCified]

Very intriguing substance

Any information about it's toxicity profile compared to regular PCP or it's derivates 3/4-MeO-PCP?

 

[Dioxy]

The only information available at the moment (that I know of) is in this paper.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0968089609002624

I can't post attachments and since it's a commercially available paper I expect it would be against several rules.
There's no toxicity data, though. That study is looking at the binding affinities, not toxicity. We still have little to no definitive information about human toxicity in most PCP/Ketamine derivatives anyway so we really are taking a stab in the dark as far as health goes.

 

[lastest]

A couple of things to add in the clear light of day.

There were definite hallmarks of NMDA antagonism - distant sounds seeming very clear, a feeling that the events of the day leading up to taking the drug were somehow unreal as if they'd taken place in a dream. What was definitely lacking was a noticeable dopamine rush which makes the onset of hexylamines so satifying.

There was none of the introspection that I usually get with hexylamines - no rush of fragmented thoughts, just a kind of blankness. It was quite peaceful in some ways but there was something a bit unnerving about it too. Hard to explain.

There were some worrying moments where I felt quite panicked and my heart started to race very fast - but this could simply be the anxiety over using such a new and untested drug. I was quite easily able to get back to a calm state by lying down and regulating my breathing.

Also, I rather foolishly took a third, rather large, dose after my last post last night. I felt back to baseline at that point, but it may well be that the drug was exerting a manic effect on me. I think it may have been 80mg, my memory is hazy. I started to watch a film on my laptop and remember seeing the first couple of scenes but then either fell asleep or blacked out. Next thing I knew it was 7 AM and I opened my eyes to the WMV player screen showing that the file had finished playing. 2mg of etizolam I had taken earlier during one of the short periods of anxiety probably contributed to that, although I am rather tolerant to etiz and 2mg wouldn't usually make me pass out.

Diphenidine is clearly a rather powerful NMDA antagonist. Subjectively it feels completely different to hexylamines in my opinion, and my feeling so far is that it does not have anywhere near the recreational potential of those drugs. It's interesting, but not what I'd call fun. On the other hand, it may be an acquired taste - it took me a few goes to actively enjoy methoxetamine.

Finally, I'd warn everyone to be careful with this - much more careful than I was. It seems like there's a fine line between not enough and too much.

 

[sekio]

since it's a commercially available paper I expect it would be against several rules.

As far as I know nobody really cares about posting "commercial" papers; mostly because people get 'em free at the library and wouldn't want to pay $25/page anyway.

my feeling so far is that it does not have anywhere near the recreational potential of those drugs.

This seems like a Dizocilpine/MK801 type drug. Sure it's a dissociative, but... it's a dissociative user's dissociative, not a "fun" dissociative, if you get what I'm trying to say.

At doses of 50-100mg though, it had better be cheap and hella safe if it's going to take off. This is kind of in league with 4-MeO-PCP.

 

[Dioxy]

I understand what you mean about it being 'peaceful but unnerving.' Something I didn't mention, for lack of enough testing, was an intermittent feeling of unease, and a definite feeling of 'blankness' at points which is also something I have experienced on 3-MeO-PCP (in between the "fucking awesome"). My heartrate was on the high side but it didn't concern me, and I am prone to anxiety, so I wouldn't link that to the drug directly. I feel like 3-MeO also suffers from the lack of a dopamine hit due to the long onset, although that part of the effect does become noticeable over time... Similarly on Diphenidine, I *think* I experienced an analogous dopaminergic effect in the main body of the experience, which gave way over a couple of hours to a feeling of what I'd describe as meditative dissociation.

There are also possible issues here about receptor tolerance when giving subjective descriptions - In my own case I expect that my receptor tolerance to the NMDA antagonism is significantly higher than my tolerance to the dopamine reuptake inhibition (assuming the vendor is right about that mechanism). We can't be sure how this compares between us individually. It could mean that highly NMDA tolerant people will experience a higher ratio of DRI to NMDA per-mg. We also don't know how this might vary based on ROA, so I will need to try eating instead of snooty-tootling to gain a better idea.

That last part makes it even more vital that everyone is cautious with it. Such powerful NMDA antagonism for non-tolerant users, combined with the long onset is likely to cause users to re-dose or 'over'-dose if they don't feel the dopamine hit they expect. Especially for a drug that's being touted as 'like Ketamine' (slightly misleading marketing but it's obvious why it's there...) Luckily, however, I think the lack of that initial dopamine rush will put a lot of potential casual/weekend binge users off, because it's my view that this was one of the primary reasons MXE was (is) so popular.

sekio - I would second your comment about it being a 'dissociative user's dissociative.' A bit like the Stewart Lee of dissociatives

 

[lastest]

This seems like a Dizocilpine/MK801 type drug. Sure it's a dissociative, but... it's a dissociative user's dissociative, not a "fun" dissociative, if you get what I'm trying to say.

I don't really know anything about those drugs, but yeah I think that sums up my first impression of it. It brought to mind what I've heard about Tiletamine - dissociating in a similar way to ket but lacking in euphoria.

At doses of 50-100mg though, it had better be cheap and hella safe if it's going to take off. This is kind of in league with 4-MeO-PCP.

At I what I paid for the gram, the price per dose isn't too bad - that is if it turns out to be worth anything at all recreationally speaking of which I'm not convinced. I haven't entirely given up on the stuff, my experience last night wasn't negative, although quite unsettling at times. I do feel that I potentially fall into the 'dissociative users' category as I am deeply interested in the idea of dissociation in and of itself - I feel it shows us fascinating things about our relationship with time, memory, emotion, all sorts of things. But at the end of the day it's pleasure rather than interest that's going to popularize any drug. I kind of doubt the crowd that bought 'offical MXE pellets' from headshops will dig this stuff.

sekio - I would second your comment about it being a 'dissociative user's dissociative.' A bit like the Stewart Lee of dissociatives

I get what you mean, but I very much doubt that diphenidine will become my drug of choice, whereas Stewart Lee is without question my comedian of choice. "Del Boy, Stew. He fell through through the bar... and Trigger made a face." Any drug that gave me as much pleasure as Stewart Lee's comedy I would hoover up in Tony Montana-style quantities.

 

[Dioxy]

You make a valid point. My analogy falls short there haha. It's only the 'Stewart Lee' in as much as that a lot of people won't 'get it,' so it could just as easily be 'The Flying Spaghetti Monster of religion' and 'The Bruno of social commentary.'

P.S. "... Trigger made a *face*..."

 

[lastest]

Just started a second bioassay. This time it's 100mg oral and I will not be redosing whatever happens. I hope to get a more orderly picture of onset, time till peak, total duration etc. I'll take written notes as I go. Having survived a total of 200mg last night with no ill effects I feel much less anxious tonight and I'll therefore be better placed to enjoy the effects, if there is indeed enjoyment to be had.

EDIT: Here you have it. Sorry, it's a bit dull.

T + 0:00 Swallowed 100mg Diphenidine in orange juice. The juice almost completely masks the taste of the compound, only a very slight bitterness.

T+ 0:15 First alerts. A tingling sensation in the lower body and some minor muscle relaxation.

T+0:40 Marked dissociative headspace. A feeling of distraction like I am on the edge of remembering an important fact but I just can’t quite work out what it is. A kind of dreamlike state indicative of NMDA antagonism. Slight physical and emotional numbness. Moderate tinnitus, not too annoying. Very relaxed. Heart rate normal.

T+ 1:40 Spent the last hour listening to music while watching the itunes visualizer. No particular increase in music appreciation. I just feel a bit bored really. Back to watching TV.

T+ 2:10 I don’t think there’s much more for me in store for me than this. Barely perceptible feeling of dissociation, perhaps very slight stimulation. At this point I feel that if someone had spiked my drink with this compound two hours ago I probably wouldn’t have noticed. The effects I reported at T+0:40 may not have been noticeable if I hadn’t been looking out for them.

I’ll see what 200mg does on another occasion but I’m becoming quite pessimistic about this substance. I’d certainly have had a much more satisfying evening with a few beers or a nice hit of codeine. It just didn’t seem to do anything much at all at this level. Quite boring really. Maybe there’ll be a sweet spot at 200-250mg but that’s going to make it pretty expensive.

EDIT 2: I went to friend's house to buy some weed before coming home and conducting this experiment (I don't smoke - paranoia-city for me - it was for my gf) and I mentioned my plans for when I got home. He said "Oh it's like ketamine is it? I could probably get you some ketamime." I said "Mate, I will love you forever if you can get me some ket." Frankly this super-novel compound experimentation is a bit scary. Just let me have my hexylamines and I'll be on my way. I'm not bothering anybody, I just wanna get dissociated.

 

[lastest]

Is it possible that this stuff is just not very active orally? Considering what Solipsis said about expecting it to have a long duration, and the fact that the effects for me last night were over in about two hours, it would seem that oral dosing is not an effective ROA. The reports of snorting, although not exactly glowing, are much more positive and the duration is reported to be longer on smaller doses. A report has surfaced on 420chan from someone who's had good results with plugging, but I'm a bit squeamish about that ROA frankly.

Or am I just flogging a dead horse? Should I just shut up and start crushing up my co codomol tablets and stop hoping for a good non-hexylamine dissociative that's never going to fucking happen?

EDIT: Oral does work, and how! Please see my post below.

 

[Dioxy]

I think there is more to be said for this compound yet, but it is definitely a subtle one and difficult to assess.
At 13:30 I insufflated 50mg and swallowed 50mg. An hour later I felt slightly dissociated but nothing to write home about.
At 15:30 I swallowed 100mg and insufflated 50mg, and over the course of the last hour I've had some really quite pleasant body high effects combined with a 'clean' feeling dissociation.

Collating our experiences, I think this compound has much more therapeutic potential than it does recreational. It isn't a psychedelic experience at these doses, but it does have something. I'm just not yet sure what that "thing" is.
I too am a little hesitant to plug. The anxiolytic and antidepressant effects are of interest.

 

[Transform]

Looking at its structure I would say that its best ROA should be oral with a fatty meal, since it has no polar groups and will therefore be poorly water soluble. Following the same logic I would expect it to have a pretty long duration ala 2-DPMP or PCP.

 

[lastest]

Ended up railing 90mg last night. I didn't find it all that bad to snort once I'd chopped it up really finely and snorted some water. It definitely hit harder than oral and felt a bit methoxetamine-like even. However, I was already feeling good on the tail end of a large hit of codeine to it just added some dissociation to the codeine euphoria. It wore off pretty quickly leaving me tired and confused and wishing I'd just left it alone to be honest. My girlfriend did 30mg (we were both going to do 60mg but she found it too painful so ended up only doing half of her's, so I had the rest) and said she felt quite pleasantly dissociated for a short while, and thought it was an interesting headspace.

Like I say, with properly prepared sinuses it wasn't hell to snort, although it did sting for ten minutes or so. Although obviously I was under the pain-killing effect of codeine at the time so that would have helped. Today my sinus feel fine, only slightly clogged, no biggie.

So intranasal does work better than oral for me, but I still find it an unsatisfying drug. Might try it once more oral with a fatty meal like you suggest Transform, but once my gram is all gone I will definitely not be reordering.

EDIT: Oral DOES work, and how! Please see my post below.

 

[Sepher]

I don't want to get involved in hyping something that is not even on general release as yet. I've read all threads with interest here and elsewhere, have now had a chance to test myself. Purely in the interests of HR some thoughts:

As others have said, insufflation with this stuff is vile. Worst. Drip. Ever. I was shooting water up my nose with an oral syringe within 10 minutes trying to clear the burn. Super caustic. Luckily nasal is a waste of time. At 50mg at least. As is plugging up to 150mg. All about the oral route with this stuff. 150mg oral will straight hole you, hard and deep. That was foolishly my starting oral dose after thinking it would be ineffective there too after failed earlier trials with other ROAs and expectation it would be rubbish as per speculation here. Very, very wrong. High doses 250mg and above are so far out of earth orbit it's not even funny. My trials with MXE, some in similar car crash territory with runs out up to a gram never got anywhere near this. Anyone gets this go easy, work up slowly, make sure stuff is put out of sight to make redosing difficult till firmly back to terra firma and rational. Somewhere safe with a trip sitter absolute requirement if aiming to hole.

It takes easily an hour to produce full effects, or that's your proper entry point anyways. It may have more to give still longer. It is a much more real, and much more fully immersive, self-contained universe you're entering than with MXE IME but takes higher doses to get there. I have not experienced that stimulated, warm, sparkle stage you get with of MXE around ~30-50mg insuff with this, don't know if that's even to be had yet, will test more next week. Would say the hole lasts order of approx 3-4 hours but cannot be accurate, you're out in realms where time is meaningless, couldn't even have begun to keep notes to accurately time. Good thing about it is you come round fairly quickly once back out of the hole it seemed to me. Hour-ish perhaps, maybe even less. Again difficult but doesn't linger on over much mentally, though some residual effect for some hours.

It is not massively physically disabling afterwards like MXE was for me, you can walk and stuff easily but the transition period between hole and a rational state is way out there for a time and you're physically capable at that point. This is your danger zone here, where you can act out but being a long, long way from rational. Will likely blitz your way through a bag of the stuff if you leave it out to hand redosing in this state too with no understanding of just how fucked up you are, or how fucked up you're gonna get. In the hole I think you're pretty much well under physically though. The blankness others have mentioned is found in the borderlands here too. Sure I stood holding onto my bedroom door frame for grim life a good 15 minutes or so staring into my room in horror at what seemed total destruction, all thought gone, just zoned out completely. You could never be safe out in public with this stuff anywhere.

 

[doorknob]

Well thank fuck for this thread. I received a sample of this without asking and misread the label as diphenhydramine. Great I thought, thank you i guess.

Weighed out 150mg for a nightcap and only just realised whilst closing the bag it was infact dephenidine, which I'd never heard of so googled it expecting a stronger sleeping drug or something. What an idiot!

I do like my ketamine though, quite happy with the little present now I'll try it one day.

 

[lastest]

Crikey, Sepher, you holed that hard from 150mg oral? As I said, 100mg oral felt very weak to me. I feel I bare partial responsibility for you going so high with your first oral dose (although it seems like you handled it well, being so obviously experienced with this sort of thing) but honest to god, 100mg oral felt like 25mg oral MXE to me at most. After your report I've certainly revised my plan to do 200mg oral next time - maybe 150mg or 125mg even. Heartening to hear that one can hole on this stuff, maybe I've found my legal hexylamine replacement after all. Did you do your 150mg oral dose on an empty stomach?

 

[doorknob]

52mg intranasally has produced some pleasant dreamy sensations. Quite an interesting compound, I must say. Very smooth, I feel quite nice.

I feel this could be my limit, any more and I could imagine feeling a little sea sick. I'd describe it as 'wishy washy'. Hardly a scientific report sorry, but this is interesting none the less.

 

[Sepher]

Crikey, Sepher, you holed that hard from 150mg oral? As I said, 100mg oral felt very weak to me. I feel I bare partial responsibility for you going so high with your first oral dose (although it seems like you handled it well, being so obviously experienced with this sort of thing) but honest to god, 100mg oral felt like 25mg oral MXE to me at most. After your report I've certainly revised my plan to do 200mg oral next time - maybe 150mg or 125mg even. Heartening to hear that one can hole on this stuff, maybe I've found my legal hexylamine replacement after all. Did you do your 150mg oral dose on an empty stomach?

Lastest, empty stomach yes, I started quite early in the a.m. after picking my mail up. Also on not a great deal of sleep, dunno if that may be a factor also or not and perhaps I'm unusually sensitive to NMDAR antagonists. A hole dose of MXE for me could have been anything >50mg insuff. for instance with the better batches I had of it if that helps with any comparisons. I certainly have no tolerance to them, this is the first drug I've used in this class since before the MXE ban over a year ago. 150mg def. holed me but my memory of it is blurred into subsequent deeper ones so difficult to say just how hard. Will be working up more cautiously this week trying to find the precise tipping point for me. What I experienced felt very, very real, fully constructed, fully immersed, fully populated with a whole parade of visistors to my interior world, yes. 8(

 

[lastest]

Yikes! Okay, yeah ignore what I said about oral being ineffective, 150mg send me to Jupiter and beyond infinity, in line with what you said Sepher. Very of surprising as 100mg did so little as I said.

I don't know if I found the fully constructed, peopled world you did Seph, I really don't remember anything at all about it. All I know is I started watching a movie and then all of a sudden it was towards the end of the movie and I had been somewhere in the meantime - somewhere beyond space and time and words. Scary, amazing. Fuck.

 

[Sepher]

Hahaaa, now we're getting towards some of us singing from the same hymn sheet at last, glad the two of us can agree on something. I recognise that exact state you describe, absolutely yes. I think this drug is gonna prove to be all kinds of different things at different doses with different ROAs. It's just a dreamy, relaxed bit of a buzz with the nasal and plugged doses I did, perfectly pleasant but nothing to write home about with little appeal, and something else completely with the higher oral doses.