Tryptamines The Big & Dandy Bufotenine (5-HO-DMT) Thread - The Truth is Out There

[djfriendly]

In cambrage[sic] dictionary the definition for toxic is: poisonous
The defintion for poisonous is: a substance that can make people or animals ill or kill them if they eat or drink it.[/COLOR]

Such as water, for example?

 

[treebear]

The info might be old 1950s but that is some of the only reliable info out there and it states respiratory problems.
Why would you throw out the only reliable info out the window and replace it with some speculations?
The master of exploring unknown psychedelic substances Shulgin thought this info worthy enough to publish.
And so did the professional researcher before him.

Morning glory you talk a lot of stuff, if this stuff has so much potential why don’t you have and experience reports out on it?

Why don’t any other explorers?
Because nothing else similar has been worth any thing combined with 5-ho.
Early reports state respiratory problems in threshold doses, which is a very dangerous sign! To say the least.

So have fun digging threw the trash bin trying to be a discover.

I am just concerned because you are posting this stuff all over a public forum that is frequented by young people and then you tell everyone they should disregard the warnings put out by professional researchers.

What are you on? I don't promote anything. My stance is to drink milk, stay in school, and leave drugs to people like Mr. T.

I am just stating a fact.....yopo is a well established psychedelic snuff, it contains bufotenin as the only active ingredient (DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are present in only trace amounts...far too small to account for its activity), and yopo does not cause the 'toxic' effects shown in those flawed reports you cite.

"egors" experiences are quotations from the 1950s on mental patients. There are many factors to consider. However, the biggest is that a dozen experiences on mental patients do not override the fact that bufotenin-containing yopo snuff is a well established psychedelic, and has been used by man since recorded time with no 'egg-plant purple' faces or other toxic side-effects.

What reports have you read to show that yopo/bufotenin is toxic (beyond what you cited, which is already known to be flawed information), when bufotenin-containing yopo is used by so many cultures with no toxic effects?

I'm not promoting anything. To use or not to use is for others to decide. I feel nothing for anyone that goes out and snuffs strange seeds because they read about it on the internet.

PS...I don't know where you get this 'toxic' garbage. I am unaware of any deaths on record attributed to yopo or bufotenin. Can you cite any? In animal testing, 5-Ho-DMT is remarkably non-toxic and the LD-50 is quite high. That doesn't always correspond to humans, but where is the data to show that humans are any different?

 

[Hah]

hi,

that's an interesting thread,
I haven't done 5-OH-DMT.

link to a fresh report:

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=64707

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I have not used bufotenin...I certainly would have said so and would have shared my experience. I cannot imagine myself snuffing anything that has such a reputation for burning, but I have some bufotenin isolate that I will certainly try some day

I cannot understand how

The info might be old 1950s but that is some of the only reliable info out there and it states respiratory problems.

Do you not ackowledge that yopo is a very common psychedelic and it contains bufotenine as the sole active ingredient? Only trace amounts (far below active levels) of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are present. If you do not acknowledge it, do so now.

Now that you realize that people insufflate bufotenine-containing snuff every day, and have done so since before most modern religions exist...can you tell me why none of them seem to turn purple and die?

At erowid there are over 70 reports on yopo. None of them mention anyone turning purple, having breathing troubles, subsequently dying. Many glowing experiences and mystical reports though.

Why are these (modern-day) reports any less valid than sketchy reports from the 50s that were done on helpless mental patients?

Certainly you cannot still discount that many people experiment with bufotenin and many people do not experience the 'toxic' effects you cite.

I would recommend that you never inject bufotenin, or take it by any other means...as I recommend to everyone.

You seem to have some personal gripe against me, and I don't know why that is. But regardless, can you answer why so many use bufotenin-containing yopo and do not turn purple and die?

I am just concerned because you are posting this stuff all over a public forum that is frequented by young people and then you tell everyone they should disregard the warnings put out by professional researchers.

As I already stated, I have never encouraged anyone to use bufotenin, nor do I encourage anyone to use any psychedelic drug. Pointing out information that is contrary to your world-view is not the same thing as endorsing or encouraging. You are hysterical to say anything to the contrary. I can see you are on a one-man mission to besmirch my name, but please do not lie and say I 'encourage young people to disregard warnings" when I have never done such a thing.

 

[treebear]

I’m not trying to besmirch your name. I just thought some of you research tactics your were promoting were very dangerous.
We are on the subject of Harm Reduction.
So it is good to keep warnings up.
I hope it is safe and it is good I love dmt, I just want people to proceed with caution and don’t want the young thrill seekers to think it is all clear and safe before the researchers with more experience test it.
When you bring up stuff like this and soon people will be ordering pure 5-ho-dmt dropping piles of it in lightblubs and smoking away.

A pure compound is much different then a pile of plant material.
When you mix 5-meo-dmt and n,nDMT with 5-ho-dmt it is not 5-ho-dmt anymore it is a different substance, much more so with the dozens of other chemicals in yopo.
I think it is reckless to be calling it safe when you haven’t even tried it yet.
I’m also a little worried about it also because of some reports with polaris grass and breathing problem they think came from 5-ho-dmt.
Be Safe.
That is all I was trying to say I’m not trying to besmirch anyone.

 

[vecktor]

am just concerned because you are posting this stuff all over a public forum that is frequented by young people and then you tell everyone they should disregard the warnings put out by professional researchers.

as opposed to sensible old people??

Before teh interweb, people read books by Schultes and Hofmann and others, and then experimented. At least now those with the inclination have the huge resources of the net to call upon, and they can read the warnings and experiences of others, then decide for themselves, those that don't do any research are the kind of people who will do it regardless. For them, two words: natural selection.

Ground mixed with lime and roasted then increasing doses from about 100mg up to perhaps half a gram snorted, unique strange nutty smell, slight mental effects, some very subtle visual enhancement, sharpening of edges and increased texture, sinus pain, head ache, pressure in the eyes, increased pulse rate. tiredness. Overall the most notable thing was the copius brown snot and horrible taste for many hours after. At no point was there any hint of purpleness, or death. though YMMV

Does this mean anything? well no, there are loads of possible reasons why it didn't really work,
perhaps the seeds were the wrong type, perhaps the preparation was wrong, perhaps tolerance is the issue, perhaps the insufflator had the wrong technique, or maybe set and setting is key and bufotenin is a subtle thing.
There is quite likely some arcane secret art to all of this that has been lost.

Would another experiment ever occur? no.

It is for the individual to decide for themselves, having weighed up the pros and cons. Anyone using solely the information on BL or wikipedia to make a decision is foolish to say the least. No one source should be relied upon, even Shulgin, whose reported comments regarding tasting convulsant isoquinolines show a suprising lack of judgement.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Yay, not that we have this business of me 'telling young people to disregard warnings' fixed, we can move on.

A pure compound is much different then a pile of plant material.

Of course, no one has said differently. However (for the 4th or 5th time), yopo snuff is almost exclusevely made of bufotenin (up to 12%) with only trace amounts of other alkaloids (DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, some beta-carbolines). More than 95% of the alkaloidal content of the snuff is bufotenin.

Unlike phalaris grass (which contains sizeable amounts of gramine...a known toxin), yopo is nearly all bufotenin in content. Any comparisons with phalaris grass are superfluous at best. Again, the toxic effects there are most likely caused by gramine.

As for those old reports from the 50s, I have always questioned if any psychiatric medication they were on played some role in those reports. There are so many possible reasons why that happened. In the end, I fail to see how a dozen or so reports should be given more weight than the dozens and dozens and dozens of modern day reports on bufotenin that do not replicate purple-face effects, or the bigger picture in that bufotenin-snuff is a well established psychedelic that is older than any modern-day religion.

I feel it is far more likely that any medications these guys were on played a large part in the reactions reported. Most people who use bufotenin do not experience those effects, and there are no modern-day reports of bufotenin replicating them.

I think it is reckless to be calling it safe when you haven’t even tried it yet.

Why do you persist in doing this? That is a bunch of crap. I have never called any drug safe, nor insinuated that bufotenin was anything close to 'safe'. If you want to engage in a debate, I'm all for it but please refrain from misquoting me or completely lying about what I have said.

 

[illusion25]

Personally i have tried both cebil and yopo snuffs and found them to be very psychedelic.
It was closely related to DMT smoked but with a slight body load. Some friends puked, but which psychedelic doesnt cause puking at times?
But the snuff was very powerful and have me floored

 

[Jamshyd]

I am with MGS on this one.

The reports from the 50s may be flawed. Heck, the scientists may have been using a whole other drug enirely - it wasn't too long ago that an idiot of a scientist fried some monkey's brains with MDMA, thus "proving" its toxicity, then admitting that he mislabeled his bottles and had been actually giving the poor things huge overdoses of Meth.

I think in this case, history is more pertinent than a single scientific report.

 

[hamhurricane]

everyone should reed this report his method of preparation seems very good and i would like to hear people comment on it

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/e...c salt form found in the unprocessed beans. "

 

[Heyoka]

A friend I've never met has been makeing snuff but is too skeered to try it yet . He used the directions Anadenthera has been recommending.

He is wondering if the color of the final product can be used to determine if the right quantity of lime has been used. During the process, after adding the lime and water and spreading the paste out thin to dry the portion exposed to air turned black overnight.

The snuff was still wet so he stirred it up and the snuff is now very similar in color to rue extract or a deep chocolate brown that has a subtle hint of red to it. The snuff is nearly dry and has been drying for about 16 hours.

So , he's wondering if the snuff has the color of what would be expected if prepared properly? I'm sure he'd love to hear from Anadenthera.

Also, Treebear, I certainly appreciate your concern but I think that this thread exists only because sufficient "new" information has come about to warrant reevaluation of bufotenine and how it is used. That being the case , if the new info is accurate, this thread could prevent those who experiment from having to endure the nasty effects mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

[Hah]

hello folks,

here's 6 scanned pages about the traditional uses of these snuffs that were in my archives.

http://www.badongo.com/file/4176038 (2,846 kb)

or

http://w13.easy-share.com/4108571.html

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I think I am getting far more interested in trying bufotenin than before. I've got a small sample of bufotenin isolate and it sounds like it may be pushed up from the "nice to own but I'm not going to try it" to the "can't wait to try it next" list.

 

[swilow]

Merged thread on Calcium Bufotenate or Bufotene Calcate whatever it was

 

[squerll]

...

 

[Anadenanthera]

Your friends probably swallowed some and got sick because of it.

I know if you take free base bufotenine sublingually and don't swallow any, it's REALLY NICE. No upset stomach. But if you swallow any, then the whole trip sucks.

Check out this quote. It talks about NOT LETTING THE SNUFF DRIP DOWN YOUR THROAT or you'll vomit. This is because it gets into the stomach and converts the bufotenine in the snuff into bufotenine hydrochloride, which is nasty.

http://www.entheogen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6986



Have any of you guys tried smoking bufotenine hydrochloride and then free base bufotenine to compare the two? They are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Like different drugs altogether. I SWEAR. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Bufotenine hydrochloride is like a more toxic version of HBWR seeds. It’s truly nasty! But then free base bufotenine is like DMT. They are worlds apart in effects. I think this is why bufotenine is so controversial. Some versions of it really suck and some are really nice. Just add an acid to it, and you created the worse drug ever! Leave it in free base form and its TOTALLY COOL.

I wonder if this acid versus free base thing applies to any other psychedelic drugs? Maybe the effects of HBWR seeds would be improved if made free base and taken sublingually instead of orally? Has this been tried by anyone?

If you think these people on this forum are going to believe you, you don't have any idea what you're up against.

When I post something I discover they say, “OH NO! That can’t be! Its not published somewhere in some old text book! You must be wrong!” Yeah…that’s the response I get all the time. Of course, if I discover something, it’s not published because I DISCOVERED IT and so I can’t give you references because I AM THE REFERENCE.

I've posted countless accurate hard facts about bufotenine gathered from years of work on the subject and nearly all of them were met with complaints from people that no nothing about bufotenine.

I've studied bufotenine for many years. I know what I’m talking about.

It’s amazing how quick people call you a liar on these forums without ever actually testing what you say for its validity.

I just wish people would test things I say, and then give a response. But no one does. They all come up with stuff out of “make believe land”. A bunch of worthless theories, with 99% of them wrong. No one here ever tested anything I said about calcium bufotenate. The fools! It’s laughable. They call me a liar without even testing it. If they did test it, they would be thanking me for letting them know about it.

One of my friends, who will remain un-named, for legal reasons, is the one who discovered calcium bufotenate and will probably be famous for it one day. At that point I will say, “I TOLD YOU SO”!!!!!

 

[Morninggloryseed]

No one is calling you a liar. Like Webster's new LAA/ISO-LAA 'equilibrium" theory...it sounds great and answers a lot of questions. We just take issue with you calling your theory absolute fact with no proof. Have you GC/MS analysis of your material to confirm what you believe?

I am sure there is something to your theory...there is a reason lime is used...but until it is confirmed you cannot state the bufotenine-calcium theory a fact.

 

[swilow]

I checked some of Anadenanthera's posts. Two of the threads he posted in were closed by people who disagreed with him. I think that's not fair. No wonder he is so pissed off.

I don't have any problem with someone believing something different from me. People state GOD as being a fact without any proof either. Yet I believe in GOD. I think people should be able to state what they believe and not have to be censored or attacked for it. Well, that's just my opinion. I hope I don't get attacked like he did. That sucks.

Yes, but its more neccesary with drugs and harm reduction to make sure that we are talking about fact. Both Vektor and F & B both called bullshit on it- as they are the ADD mods, for a reason, I'm inclined to agree and therefore shut his threads.

Unfortunately on BL, while you can state what you believe; if its not truth AFAIK we (mods) have an obligation to correct it.

Think of the many myths that have been propagated over the years that have had the end result of making these drugs illegal- if Anandanertha (sorry, I just can't spell that, no offense) can conclusively prove, through all the usual chemistry analysis, that he's correct, then he needs to go through various channels, such as publication in a scientific journal, before the idea is legit and can be accepted. Otherwise, I can claim peas are carrots and be correct, if I believe it.

 

[swilow]

At that point I will say, “I TOLD YOU SO”!!!!!

And I'll thank your friend for finding out such things, and remind him of his mates big ego problem.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Made those files into a PDF.

http://pdf-library.radio879.com/PDF/Indole/Beans of the Hekula Spirit and Seeds of Civilization.pdf

hello folks,

here's 6 scanned pages about the traditional uses of these snuffs that were in my archives.

http://www.badongo.com/file/4176038 (2,846 kb)

or

http://w13.easy-share.com/4108571.html