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The Big & Dandy bk-MDMA (Methylone) Thread

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Lately I have been having very strange effects when on Methylone, and in smaller doses than a usual dose (avg 200mg).
Last night was a case in point, I preloaded with two doses of 1600mg of piracetam about 4 hours apart (in 800mg pill form), the second around a hour or so before he began dropping MDAI and Methylone. My diet on this day was very light in preparation of the nights experience, cereal / coffee at breakfast and pasta, yogurt and tea for dinner around 4 hours or so before I first dropped.
I dropped two 50mg doses of MDAI mixed with water within 15 mins of each other, felt very light sedating, almost calming effects, but too subtle to differentiate between placebo or genuine effects from the MDAI. 30 mins later I dropped 100mg of Methylone, orally mixed in water.
After about 5-10 mins some effects started, enhanced music appreciation, the feeling of a lighter body as I was walking around.
The unsettling thing was accompanying this effects was a undeniable jittery anxiety feeling, which was more pronounced as time went on, after about 15 mins I found myself wandering my home in an almost wired state, yet also feeling very drowsy and at this stage the music (which normally would be sounding incredible and captivating) almost became too much to take and I went to lie down, still feeling very unsettled, anxiety ridden, generally just a very very strange light uncomfortable head space to a normal methylone experience.
This has been the main effects the last couple of times I have taken methylone, the undeniable urge to lie down, almost a sedating effect, however last night this was in equal to the unsettling anxiety and uncomfortable light head than ever before. I was actually unable to lie still and listen to music like before on this occasion and about 1 hour after dropping the methylone I found myself wanting to abort the trip and proceeded to turn off the music and watch some tv.
Over the next 2 hours or so the effects gradually subsided until I was almost back at baseline as before, bar the usual blurred vision in up close objects and a slightly unbalanced and light head space. I also found it difficult to sleep until hours later, but again this is usual for me with Methylone.
I do not understand these effects however, usually I am filled with empathy and euphoria on methylone and full of energy whereas lately (with a gap of 2-3 weeks between each session) it seems to be more of an unsettling anxious sedation with zero empathy and euphoria and in a case like last night becoming overwhelming in it's negative mental effects with music becoming difficult to listen to.
I am wondering if other people have experienced any of these effects on Methylone in comparison to how amazing the experience has been to them in the past.
As I was laying there attempting to sleep last night I wondered is it possible the piracetam is in some way causing this run of effects. The last couple of times I dropped methylone I have preloaded with piracetam, usually always 3200mg, 1600mg within a couple of hours or so of each other and usually the second dose an hour or so within dropping the methylone. Could I be taking the second dose of piracetam too soon within dropping the methylone?
Could it possibly be dose, I was originally going to drop 150mg last night, however upon feeling a little jittery and unsettled before the methylone decided to cut it back to 100mg so if the experience went bad it may not be as overwhelming and easier to take up another activity to take my mind from it.
My first experiences on Methylone were incredible, 200mg-250mg was average and every good effect was present (bar my very first experience with 150mg where I felt almost nothing apart from a little visual enhancement). I then had a bad experience with a bombed 100-100mg combo of Mephedrone and Methylone where I experienced no effects from this combo and then 3-4 hours after ingestion had a terrible full blown panic attack. This was the same the next time I took 200mg of methylone. I then took a break for around 4 months and upon returning to Methylone worked my way up in gradual doses to the 100mg I would take now.
Another possibility could be the fact I tripped alone the last couple of times, not trusting myself to be out in a club on methylone since the bad experience I have been tripping alone to work my way back up to a normal level again, however, as set and setting is everything to an experience with a psychoactive substance such as methylone, possibly this is playing more of a part recently that it did before in turning the trip around.
Do any others have any insight or have similar experiences to share that relate? I am going to take a longer break between my next dose and this time I will dose with just Methylone in the chance piracetam is in some way affecting the experience or possibly the combination of MDAI.
 
how experienced are you with both substances alone? a lot of people find methylone to only become truly euphoric at 190-200mg. (could be a bit less when combining with mdai... 8))

This was only our third methylone attempt. First was at 100mg: Subtle effect. Second was at 160mg: identical to my report above though a little less long-lasting and slightly less intense. Neither of us had tried MDAI before on its own. I know this is foolish and goes against the way I wanted to do things, but we were getting impatient, heh. In any case I'm not even sure what, if anything, the MDAI contributed to the experience, but see my reply to push below.

how did the effects evolve over the duration? 7 hours seems like a long time. do you think the mdai extends the duration of the (methylone-)high?

Well, this is what makes me think we are missing most of the main effects. Everyone seems to report peak effects of about an hour or at least not too much more. It's certainly true that I could identify a peak that occurred quickly and lasted about an hour, but the difference between that peak and the following hours wasn't huge. I would say that the methylone put me into an obviously happy and caring mood for that peak, but even past that point, I felt that it was there as well, just to a more subtle extent. In any case, this is part of the reason I feel we must missing the main effects and are maybe under-dosing. Maybe my methylone isn't as pure as some other batches that other people have...

Lately I have been having very strange effects when on Methylone...

The unsettling thing was accompanying this effects was a undeniable jittery anxiety feeling, which was more pronounced as time went on, after about 15 mins I found myself wandering my home in an almost wired state, yet also feeling very drowsy and at this stage the music (which normally would be sounding incredible and captivating) almost became too much to take and I went to lie down, still feeling very unsettled, anxiety ridden, generally just a very very strange light uncomfortable head space to a normal methylone experience...

...next dose and this time I will dose with just Methylone in the chance piracetam is in some way affecting the experience or possibly the combination of MDAI.

Interesting that you ask this now because I left something out of my previous post that may or may not relate to this... The last 2 hours or so of the experience last night started including some negative effects that could be described the way you did here (no anxiety for me, but there probably would have been had I followed down some bad paths of thought). Mostly, towards the end I felt a strange mix of still being stimulated mentally, but also being exhausted and unable to handle more. I was kind of nauseous.

And, in fact, I feel that way today (the day after) to some extent; especially after I vaped some weed. My head space is still entirely positive mind you, but I feel a bit nauseous and tired and "fuzzy in the head," and yet still a little wired. I didn't have this on my last experience that was just methylone alone (wired yes, but not fuzzy/nauseous), so I was wondering if the MDAI brought this negative component. However, I also didn't feel great at certain points on the day before the experience (was nauseous at one point), so it could just be me being sick and the symptoms being amplified by the chems... But I wonder if the feeling is actually tied to the MDAI. Please let us know if you still experience the same thing with Methylone alone.
 
Interesting that you ask this now because I left something out of my previous post that may or may not relate to this... The last 2 hours or so of the experience last night started including some negative effects that could be described the way you did here (no anxiety for me, but there probably would have been had I followed down some bad paths of thought). Mostly, towards the end I felt a strange mix of still being stimulated mentally, but also being exhausted and unable to handle more. I was kind of nauseous.

And, in fact, I feel that way today (the day after) to some extent; especially after I vaped some weed. My head space is still entirely positive mind you, but I feel a bit nauseous and tired and "fuzzy in the head," and yet still a little wired. I didn't have this on my last experience that was just methylone alone (wired yes, but not fuzzy/nauseous), so I was wondering if the MDAI brought this negative component. However, I also didn't feel great at certain points on the day before the experience (was nauseous at one point), so it could just be me being sick and the symptoms being amplified by the chems... But I wonder if the feeling is actually tied to the MDAI. Please let us know if you still experience the same thing with Methylone alone.

Thanks for your input! That is exactly how I would describe the feeling beyond what I originally said; to quote you "a strange mix of still being stimulated mentally, but also being exhausted and unable to handle more". Particularly the unable to handle more feeling, very uncomfortable and anxiety ridden on top; generally just a negative feeling of mental stimulation and a light head, although not in the usual pleasant light headed feeling on methylone.
You could have a point with the connection between the methylone and MDAI. Last night as the MDAI seemed to kick in, and this could be placebo given how subtle MDAI can be at a low dosage, or even a strong dosage, but there was an almost sedating, fatigue like feeling before I dropped the methylone 30 mins later. The way I could look at this was when the methylone kicked in it amplified the sedating / fatigued effects I felt from possibly the MDAI and brought them into more negative territory experience wise still. I will report back on my next experience of just methylone and no combination substance or preloading.
 
Any ideas how would combining bk-mdma with tizadine go?

Methylone tends to keep me up, so I was wondering if taking a relaxant some hours after taking methylone would help getting sleep. Is there any knowledge of adverse effects of this combination?

Maybe few beers too. And spliffs. (:
 
Being that this forum is heavily based around harm reduction with methylone and other such substances I have a question I would love to get some insight on from the other more experienced psyconauts and this substance.

Basically my doses lately on methylone since my bad experience with the methylone / mephedrone combo have been in low quantities, quantitatively working my way back up what would have been a normal dosage prior to this combo going bad (200mg avg in a single dose). So far I have got very little in the way of positive methylone effects from this. Athough other substances have been involved that could alter the experience (MDAI - Piracetam). Even an experience with just methylone, for e.g. a dose of 25mg taken every 5-10 mins working up to a culmination dose of 100mg-125mg has, while presented some interesting effects; enhanced music appreciation, visual enhancement being the main ones, still in no way comparing to how the experience was before the combo of m1 and mephedrone went very wrong for me. Now I know at this dosage level very little effects in the positive range can be expected and I read about how for a lot of people anything sub 150mg can give anxiety ridden effects, unease, not a pleasant experience, similar to how my experiences are lately.
I am wondering, would it in any way be worth while to take a single dose of 200mg at my next experience or would others advise against this, maintaining it is is a better method to work my way back up to that dosage in the coming months from where I am now at 100mg in a single dose. Would perhaps 200mg be exactly the personal dosage, as it seemed to be in the past for me before the combo, that will propel through the anxiety and into the more positive effects, the euphoria and empathy I had experienced before at this dosage? As a case in point, my very first experience on methylone was 150mg in a single dose and apart from perhaps visual enhancement and a sense of contentedness (where the latter could just have easily been placebo) I felt very little effects. The 200mg single dose a week or so later was the dose where all positive effects where present.
What do others think, would it be advised against to take a, what would have been an normal dose for me before, around 200mg in one dose or should I keep on the path of working my way back up to this dosage from the 100mg I am at now?
 
i don't have experience with methylone below 200mg (except an experience with an unmeasured dose of at most 20mg which only gave me a little warm feeling in the stomach and little music appreciation), but if methylone is like mdma in that aspect taking 200mg might do the trick. i remember underdosing mdma resulting in an underwhelming mildly pleasant mindstate with some anxiety. taking another pill always resulted in a proper roll.
 
I have a suspicion that "time to peak" with bk-mdma blood concentrations is quite important. In other words, that initial kick or sudden spike in plasma levels, may be nessesary to spark some either physiological or psychological shift. Which then breaks one through into a solid feeling of being high.

For example, often I've had 200-250mg in a capsule. A slow releasing dose that hovers just above threashold effects. The feeling of, not quite getting there, is just one annoying tease. Where as, when I dissolve a similar dose in water, then skull on empty stomach. The comeup is much more aggressive and sudden , giving me a much stronger experience over all.
 
^yeah, I'd agree with this. Empty stomach essential.

I had a weird experience the other day. Hadn't done any drugs for about a week and decided to snort about 75mg Mephedrone. Nothing.

Figured my supply must have gone off (is this possible?) so cracked open another fresh supply from a different provider. Snorted 75mg, then another 100mg about an hour later. Some mild stim, but nothing.

I then thought 'shit', either there's something wrong with me, or there's something wrong with my supply. I then dropped about 200mg of Methylone and had the expected trip.

I haven't tried the Mephedrone since, but I'm pretty sure it will be back to normal (not sure why I think this).

What could possibly have been different about my body on the day in question to make the Mephedron so inaffective?

FWIW, I don't do it very often, so tolerance can't really be a factor.
 
How quickly does tolerance build with this chemical in terms of empathic effects rather than stimulating ones? People regularly talking about MDMA losing the 'magic' after frequent usage, but what about Methylone?

Bit of a dilemma as I have big, big night planned in a couple weeks where I intend to indulge and get the full effects of Methylone over the course of the night, but there's also a really good night on tomorrow and I'm struggling to not give in and have some than as well. :\ Would a two week gap be enough to recoup sufficiently for the full effects again or should I just ignore tomorrow night and wait?
 
Yes you should be fine with a two week gap, I have found the full emphaphetic effects with a week gap but I do not recommend that because I found a harsher comedown in that time frame.
 
I'm just going to input some data from my experiences with methylone here, hopefully it will be useful to some people:

1. Tolerance/magic: I've found that waiting 2 weeks is generally sufficient to eliminate any tolerance. I've never done it closer than 2 weeks apart, but I have done it 2 weeks apart for a month or two and noticed no real changes in effect. I actually started taking slightly less (200mg rather than 220) towards the end. I've done bk-MDMA and MDMA a total of about about 10 times total (in as many months) and had no loss of magic. If I had to guess, I would wager that bk-MDMA can cause and suffer from the same loss of magic that MDMA does. Given that the loss of magic appears to have something to do with serotonin receptors, it is *possible* that bk-MDMA causes less damage per use to one's "magic"

2. Euphoria/subjective experience. I find that with my normal dose of 200-220mg, around the peak I generally get a pleasant, natural feeling euphoria, increased empathy and love for those around me, and some nice stimulation. The stimulation is a good bit greater than that of MDMA, which I find to be slightly sedating, and the euphoria and empathy are significantly reduced. However, adding GBL/GHB to methylone completely changes the experience. It becomes significantly more stimulating, but it is a comfortable stimulation; it feels just like having lots of energy. The euphoria is multiplied many times, too - I would put the level of euphoria I experience on par with regular MDMA. Only the empathic effect is not really affected. The decrease in inhibition caused by G sort of helps to amplify the effect, but not significantly compared to MDMA. With or without G, I often experience a manageable level of jaw tension as well.


3. Comedown/supplements: I find that taking a single dose of M1 generally results in little to no negative effects the next day. However, redosing has resulted in muted feelings, temporary depression, and overall fatigue in the following day. I've never noticed any major hangover effects beyond one day. I've also found that taking 5-HTP supplements during the comedown and after periods (but before going to sleep) can help mitigate the negative effects.

4. Dose: As mentioned above, I often take 200-220mg. Sensitivity seems to vary quite widely: I know three people who are much smaller than me, but take the same dose and feel similar effects. I also know several people who are larger to me and take only marginally higher doses. Generally for people who've never taken it before I will give them a starter dose of ~180mg. Some people will pleasantly feel it, for some it will be strong, and some report that they don't feel it at all (I did not either).
 
I think people may be taking more than they need.

I'm a largish male and 170mg generally gives me a good M1 roll. My wife had a very strong M1 roll from 150mg. But that is with no tolerance (it is a rare indulgence on our part.)

~psychoblast~
 
I think people may be taking more than they need.

I'm a largish male and 170mg generally gives me a good M1 roll. My wife had a very strong M1 roll from 150mg. But that is with no tolerance (it is a rare indulgence on our part.)

~psychoblast~

Dosages between 150mg and 175mg are not full-on at all for me...actually a waste of material...but once I get to 190mg-210mg....I get the full glory.
 
I think people may be taking more than they need.

I'm a largish male and 170mg generally gives me a good M1 roll. My wife had a very strong M1 roll from 150mg. But that is with no tolerance (it is a rare indulgence on our part.)

~psychoblast~


Sensitivity to M1 seems to vary widely among individuals. I feel absolutely nothing from 175mg, but I know other people for whom it is a very enjoyable experience. Given that I don't take it or other MDMA analogues more frequently than once every one or two months, tolerance has never really been a factor, either.
 
Care to provide a source for that? Not that I don't believe you, of course methylone is much less neurotoxic than MDMA based on all the anecdotal reports we've seen, but I'd like to see that Nichols paper specifically. I wasn't aware methylone's neurotoxicity had ever been looked at.

Actually, I'm now seeing how poorly I've organized my non-sociological journal articles. IIRC, the specific comparison was with MDMA, and the dependent measure for "neurotoxicity" persisting depletion of serotonin.

ebola
 
I wanted to take a minute to let everyone know in each of the substance Big and Dandies about the community project of the PD forum which has been being worked on for the past 2 years or so, the Psychedelic Effects Profile survey. This survey asks you a number of questions, starting with the substance taken, the dose, the method of administration, other substances (non-psychedelic) ingested during the trip, and set and setting, and then it goes on to ask about a variety of specific effects, and you can select whether or not you experienced them and if so, the intensity level of that effect on a 5-point scale.

Thank you for your help with this! For this to be of any use whatsoever, we need as many responses as we can possibly get, so please take it as many times as you have time for, for as many substances as you have had proper trips on. We want to gather the full range of effects possible so feel free to take it for positive as well as negative experiences, for earth-shattering and average. Each time taking the survey is for a single trip on a single substance - no combinations please, as it taints the data for each substance. In the future I may make another survey for combinations. The survey takes about 5 minutes to get through so it's not too much of your time.

For further discussion of this project, please see the stickied thread at the top of the forum that starts with "Community Project". To take the survey, please click on this link: http://freeonlinesurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?sid=hvw6fx9mmvzz82l599169

:)
 
Dosages between 150mg and 175mg are not full-on at all for me...actually a waste of material...but once I get to 190mg-210mg....I get the full glory.

Interesting...I was able to roll hard on just 110mg my first time, though I barely get the same effect on 200mg now.

I agree with those who say to only use it a few times a year. It's a wonderful chemical but don't abuse it. I was redosing it bi-weekly for a few months and now I lost the magic.
 
The magic is lost VERY quickly with M1. The first time I did it I bombed 200mg's and was blown away for about an hour, and then I had a sketchy 3 hours before sleep was possible. The only time I take this one now is with Meph...the combo is extrememly unhealthy but comes pretty darn close to MDMA if you ask me.
 
I haven't looked into mephedrone much, though I know it's more stimulating and has some adverse side effects. What's so unhealthy about the combination?
 
I've been extremely stupid with methylone, i did a hippieflip on it and further out in the trip i somehow lost all responsible thinking and used up more then a gram in a timespan of around 9-10 hours, the urge to redose and prolong the great experience was worse than anything i've taken before.

At the end i was overstimulated and really scared, i just couldn't calm down. This was extremely stupid and i hope no one loses control like i did.
 
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