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Health The Big & Dandy Bipolar Disorder & Psychedelics Thread

LSD was actually used in research endeavors in the 1950s and 60s after showing some promising results in the field of psychotherapy. It's a common misconception that LSD can triggger a schizophrenic reaction, and more often than not people confuse psychedelic (mind-manifesting) drugs with psychomimetic (psychosis-mimicking) drugs.

If you pay close attention to set, your mindset before the psychedelic experience (no matter which drug you chose), and setting, the environment you begin the experience in and return to when the experience ends, you should be able to enjoy the trip with minimal threat to yourself.

Of course, there's no standard for LSD experimentation because until just a few years ago LSD research has been restricted by the FDA and DEA as a Schedule I drug (being addivtive and dangerous with no medical value). Here's a link to a paper by Dr. Ben Sessa, a psychotherapist with the British Journal of Psychiatry, touching on the FUTURE of psychedelic psychotherapy.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/186/6/457

And here's another one by Charles Grob on the history and future of such research.

http://knark.phreak.se/Drugs Archive/Psilocybin/chapter2.pdf

Keep in mind that the reason LSD was seen as a possible agent for psychotherapy in patients with personality and mental disorders was because it produces the same ego regression in subjects as seen in schizophrenic patients. However, rather than exacerbating these conditions (if pre-existing) the psychoactive drug and its close relatives allow the mind to let go and deal with the issues facing the user.

There has also never been a case of neurological damage in patients during a single LSD experience, because the concentrations of the drug would have to be so high (1500-2500 micrograms, typical doses being between 25-100) that the user would be rendered virtually incapacitated. However with prolonged use the drug has been known to produce psychosis (i.e. former Pink Floyd frontman Syd Barrett). Chromosomal damage (once thought to be cause by LSD) is no longer a viable threat for LSD users for the same reason, concentration levels not safely possible to the human body. Just a note... the reason these concentrations cannot even possibly be reached within the human body, because the tests showing chromosomal damage back in the 60s and 70s were done in small control conditions (less than 500 mL of water), and there's over 5 liters of blood in the human body. Literally, physically impossible. Not only this, but the damage to the cells tested on were DESTROYED by these levels of LSD. So as long as you are not taking a massive dose of the drug, you are not in any immediate danger, but as always drugs of this nature should be considered on an individual level, do not take this drug if you are not 100% sure that you are OK with what will result.

Hope this helps a little bit, if you do decide to take LSD make sure you know what you're in for before you drop. You know as well as anyone that LSD and psilocybin are two completely different animals, but when used responsibly can not only be recreational but beneficial as well. Good luck!
 
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roksopp, I'd definitely say be very careful. BUT, you say that you've tripped on mushrooms numerous times before, right? In my experience, mushrooms are a lot harder to handle at reasonable dosages than LSD. So take that for what you will. In any case, the experience is what you make of it.
 
mushrooms with depression/ bipolar

i tried the search and couldnt come up with anything. cuz i know allot of you older heads are gnna say search and i know. i havnt posted on here in a while. but i was looking for information as to why people with such conditions its not good for them to take psychadelics, not due to the actual trip itself but like a couple days after. due to the fact that my gf, who researches nothing, has recently just eaten mushrooms and started doing mdma. well she has untreated depression and bipolar disorder and it worrys me that shes doing these things but disregards what i have to say because she thinks how can a heroin addict( former), whose also eaten thier fair share of psychs, tell her what to do. i am just worried about her and would like to find some information about its effect on these conditions like long lasting effects.

sorry if this sounded rambled together but i didnt realy think ahead as to what i was going to type to make it seem clearer

so anyhelp at all would be great esp. those with sources.
 
She should understand that MDMA is the absolute worst drug she can be taking.

Not only as a person with bipolar tendencies is she setting herself up for a worse crash than most people will endure, but she is likely to throw off the very delicate balance of seratonin which can lead to prolonged depression and worsening of her bipolar symptoms.

Take it from me, I know first-hand. As someone with a tendency towards depression and a mood which I have done a lot of work to mostly balance over the years, I was by far at my worst during and after a time in my life when I was abusing Ecstasy, most of which was pure MDMA in the form of molly.

For most people, "what goes up must come down" isn't that big of a deal if MDMA is used responsibly and rarely. However for people with bipolar tendencies it should be understood that you are very likely trading off a few hours of feeling great for possibly setting you up for an extended amount of time feeling depressed or unbalanced.

IMO if she *insists* on taking MDMA she should absolutely be pre-loading with lots of 5-HTP and post loading with a massive stack of supplements. Even in this case I would not recommend it at all.


Mushrooms .... well the fact is if she is bipolar than she is more likely to have a bad trip. And a bad trip can leave someone somewhat "scarred" feeling for some time, and give her even more issues to work on.

IMO, keep the doses light on the shrooms. And use them very rarely too because they are also interacting with the same brain processes that moderate mood.


I would suggest if she really wants to trip, DMT or Salvia would be the best bet. Yes this might seem counterintuitive to my previous advice. However, these trips are short, and there is little, well, time, to have a "bad trip". She will most likely have a profound experience and be left with a positive afterglow.

With a longer lasting psychedelic you risk her enduring hours of mental trauma.

That said, bipolar people can certainly have good trips too. But make sure she is neither on an up- or down-swing in her mood, psychedelics can really fuck bipolar people up in these times.

be careful. have her read my advice.
 
^^^Very good post, pretty much said everything there. :)


Does she experience hypomania or full-blown mania, and equal at the opposite end of the spectrum? There are people on BL with bipolar who safely trip; it depends on the severity of the disorder I would think. Has she been diagnosed or is it a self-diagnosis?

Either way, as said MDMA would be a bad idea in many respects due to the massive seratonin deficit encountered afterwards. Mushrooms are way safer IMO then MDMA if one has a specific seratonergic brain malfunction (I never use MDMA but use mushrooms quite a bit- I am not diagnosed bipolar but have panic/anxiety and depressive episodes, for which I am prescribed SSRI's).
 
I can only urge you to let her see this thread as responses begin coming in. Particularly, she should not be taking MDMA. At all. I am not bipolar nor have I been a particularly depressed person throughout my life, but after using MDMA a good dozen times over 7 years (not more than that), it has really done a lot to change my balance in a negative way. Particularly, after the last time I did it, I became very badly depressed for over a month, the worst I've ever been. I honestly feel that I am not the same anymore after MDMA, like I have to work harder to be happy. And I must repeat that I have never abused it - I used it responsibly.

Mushrooms could either be good or bad. I can say it's highly unlikely that they would cause a chemical imbalance in the brain; however, as a bipolar person she will be more likely to have abad trip, and I would think that such a bad trip could go to much darker places. And mushrooms are capable of extremely dark and frightening trips. I would say that mushrooms done correctly have a chance of possibly helping, but this is dangerous territory to tread.

Is she using them for consciousness exploration purposes, or is she using them to "get fucked up"? If it's the latter, tell her that she will end up getting her ass kicked at some point by mushrooms. Not might, will. At some point.
 
thanks everyone esp. you bluedolphin. it just seems aftwards she expieriences extreme mood swings doesnt feel right in the head like she doesnt know what to do with herself. i just care about her soo much and she is young, 18, im 21 and have done my fair share of things and when im around her when shes on these things im ok with it because i know im expierienced and can take care of her when something happens and i tell her all the precautions to take like preloading and post loading im just gnna have to buy it for her i guess and tell her to take it because she seems to believe more of what her "friends" tell her when they dont know shit i mean come on they sniff xanax. lol.


but seriously thanks for all the help still if theres any source information( studies and such).
 
The thing is man, is she diagnosed? Because bipolar is the fluctuation between depressive states and manic- so it seems odd that you mentioned depression AND bipolar; depression is a given. Just curious if she has had a psychiatric diagnosis.
 
^^^As willow said, it's extremely important to know whether she has been diagnosed. Remember, she is around the age when hormones are raging at their peak, and mood/self-confidence is most unstable. If she hasn't been psychiatrically evaluated, who knows whether she is mentally ill or just on the difficult end of the normal teenage girl spectrum?

Judging from my observations of diagnosed bipolar friends, psychedelics are just as likely to trigger mania as they are depression (though of course the polarity of the mood swing depends on their mental state in the day or two leading up to the trip). Having benzodiazepines on hand might be helpful if it looks like the trip is leading towards either a depressive or manic episode.

As for MDXX, bipolar people typically have really hard crashes from it, and therefore the odds of triggering a depressive episode are much higher than with normal people.
 
I have had a history of depression (not manic-depressive moodswings, but very serious depression) in the past. I found psychedelics were great for catalyzing a mind that was already on the path to recovery from depression. However, I fear if I had discovered the psychedelics during the heart of my depressed period, it may have brought those feelings to a head and made them worse.

Just because a therapist has told you at some point that you're mentally ill does not necessarily mean for the rest of your life that you will not be able to enjoy, tolerate, or learn from a psychedelic drug. But I would suggest waiting until you have had stability and positivity in your life for several months continuously before partaking. Taking a psychedelic to try to cure a life-threatening problem while it's happening might not work out the way the user hopes or expects. And manic-depression or clinical depression in any form IS a life-threatening condition.
 
I am bipolar. I had my first bad mushroom trip on monday, but I'd done coke for the first time the night before and a fair amount of it which I think accounted for my episode. I ate about half a mushroom and a little shake. I was planning on making cookies with my lady and thought this would just put a bigger smile on my face. It grabbed my brain and I was completely fucking manic. I can still feel the energy. It seems like the mushrooms just propelled what was already an upswing into a crazier trajectory. I somehow broke a chair and luckily no one called the police which would've been too fucked to deal with.

I've had suicidal comedowns on E, but other times I've rolled for what feels like a couple days with no comedown. Granted I don't do either mushrooms or MDMA very much (eaten mushrooms ~25 times; MDMA ~10 or so). I've done a lot of acid which has never pushed me in a psychotic direction. Normal acid mania maybe, but not delusional and evil and crazy. Acid has helped me more than any other drug. If I haven't eaten it for a while it reminds me of what positivity feels like and if I'm chipping at it it just makes me feel sane. I cannot say the same for mushrooms. I wonder what the effects of psychedelic amphetamines are on long term mental health though. It seems like I like DOx's more than my friends and I wonder if it's because of my particular brain. I'm not sure if the fact that they're amphetamines makes any difference in regard to neurotoxicity.

PAX,
PL
 
Bi_polar chipping in...

Firstly Wotta Awesome thread!

Anywayz, Mushrooms Made me LOSE MY SHIT....

didn't take much either and was'nt a crazy strain....

Repeat... Haven't still put the genie completely "back in the bottle" from the mushroom trip. (6 years ago).

Synth Psychs I seem to do quite well with...

and Md-somethingies are full blown MANIA for me, oddly manageable tho, (whats not to like about loving everything and everybody) but i'm not depressed for weeks afterward.

Sal via will stop any mania in its TRACKS... beautiful material, gift from Ghod. (YESHUA)

And Coke is my personal krpytonite... don't even drink Coca-Cola.....
Can't even do a microgram.

Tru Madness.






Out...
 
I was diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorder at the age of 7. I'll admit to being pretty damn bi-polar. Anyway.

I had 2 grams of mushrooms, orange caps (hydroponic I'm lead to believe) and had a really bad trip. Part of it I don't really remember, but my friends told me I was banging on their apartment walls and flipping out for part of it. That said, all said and done the mind expansion was worth it because I felt like I got to the edge of the world, or in between dimensions or something; and it opened me up to different perceptions than I had before.

But yeah. definitely a dark trip toward the end. I had to lock myself in a bathroom for three hours, just hoping for it to end. Then again, I had 2 grams of some that had darker and larger caps with longer stems... my eyes dialated, I felt sick at my stomach, and my vision got a little blurry and I went deep into thought. No hallucinations; nothing like the first trip. I'm willing to go for it again if I can find a reliable source. Even though I am bi-polar and know that I am more subject to a bad trip.
 
Bipolar disorder and psychedelics (mega-merged)

Hello its my first post here, I was going to post in introductions but this is more of a question about Psychedelics.

About a year ago I was living alone going to broadcasting college. At the time I was using about 1/4 ounce of Psilocybe cubensis and maybe 1/8 of Marijuana in mixed strains per week. Now nothing happened for about 5 months I was achieving solid 95% grades all the way up to that point. Around my 6th or 7th month I stopped using (mushrooms) but recieved a few flashbacks, extremely vivid flashbacks during class, Thought nothing of it at the time but afterwards I started developing heavy psychosis from smoking marijuana it felt as if the pot had maybe increased in potency 10x (Same strains as before). I stayed in this state untill my 9th month sometimes never leaving my bed for up to 4 days at a time recieving delusions and hallucinations. Much more happened in this months but most of it was spent in extreme hunger or sleep depravation. I was later diagnosed with Bi-Polar Disorder with extremely periods of depression and mania, and to top it off possible schizophrenia.

So i recieved my first dose of Lithium which lead to stomach cramps like no other. So off the Lithium and onto some Risperidone did nothing.

Fast forward to 1 year later i'm on Lithium and my levels are good at .08
I went from a weight of 130lb at school to 240lb after taking Olanzapine 15mg+ after the Risperidone. Now my Mania is being controlled by a 100mg dose of Seroquel and the Lithium seems to have solved the depression.

So now to the real question, thanks for reading through all my life story.
I'm using Marijuana daily way stronger stuff then before (Whitewidow compared to Juicyfruit) no signs of psychosis.

I have tried multiple times to use Mescaline while off my Olanzapine with no results due to the halflife of the drug. How likely am I to re-experience a "episode" if I was to use LSD. I realize LSD is a much cleaner drug compared to the psilocybin and psilocin. I realized the risks and know, no one is really qualified to anwser this question otherwise then myself and possibly my doctor but I've done as much research as I could stand right now and i'd like to hear some opinions.

Thank you ahead of time,

Brass Monkey
 
lol, if mushrooms drove you over the edge you do not even want to think about fucking with LSD. Stop smoking pot and chill the fuck out man, before you get so bad that meds cant even help you anymore. Obviously you are still young, so your symptoms may intensify. LSD will only makes this worse.

Tread lightly, this is the rest of your life we are talking about here. Is getting high on drugs really worth flushing your existence down the shitter?
 
What makes you think lsd is safer than psilocybin? IME lsd is been more likely to precipitate a psychotic break. I have seen it happen 3x all with LSD. Both had taken mushrooms man times and had been fine. It could just be coincidence but this has led me to believe mushrooms is more predictable.

I personally have abstained from mushrooms because they have caused me some pretty bad nausea on my last few trips. They definitely have more of body load than LSD and can be more disorienting. Personally i have never had an LSD trip that I haven't enjoyed while i have had several mushroom trips that where a little uncomfortable.
LSD to me is the better drug because it is more analytical and easier to work with than mushrooms because of the decreased body load. maybe that is what you meant by cleaner.

Based on your post though I would suggest you abstain from psychedelics. You are taking a big risk by ingesting a powerful drug like lsd. Once you have had a psychotic break you are at a much greater risk of having another one. Be safe.
 
I'd stop smoking the cannabis altogther if I was you and only take LSD in the context of psychotherapy, or don't take LSD and take up psychotherapy instead - just my 2 cents as they say
 
Man listen.
I was diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder.

I consumed 1 quarter of Psilocybe 7.5 grams
In a Dark room with No Music.

I fixed myself Meta programming research it. Use it.
Your mind is a tool.
Stop letting the monkey on your back beat your machine.
You are in control of the machine if the monkey is part of you, you are ultimately the monkey.

You sound like you have a fevered ego...

Something that needs complete dissolution. I'd say Stop taking all of your meds.
If you have been on them for a long time. There is a relative chance that you would say you have maintained back to this level of docile sheepability.

One Very High dose. 7.5 grams
After you have come off your Olanzapine
for one month.

If you have any psychotic breaks within the 7 day count down to your consumation of the mushrooms then do not consume them.

I am serious when i say NO MUSIC and NO LIGHTS

you need this for a reimagining of your soul....
 
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