The Big & Dandy AMT / αMT Thread - 4th Rush

[Morkin]

T00.00 - 80mg gelcap, empty stomach.
T00.30 - coming up with the usual tryptamine signs. Yay!
T00.31 - offered banana loaf & thoughtlessly accepted *nomnom*
T00.36 - nauseous. realised mistake, worried I might also puke the AMT (this made no difference).
T00.37 - vomiting banana loaf. But definitely tripping.
T00.40 - T14.00 - Poor concentration, slight hand-shakiness and jaw-clenching (though don't need gum). Drank lots of water & ate juicy berries. Pupils like a cartoon-character. Heavy tracers, sparks of colour, psychadelic blush over everything illuminated by the psychadelic lamp that always hangs just above my vision when tripping this hard. Things seem slightly frivolous and I enjoy watching people slide around on the snow. Not looking for interaction but when it happens, find myself more gregarious. Longer than the 12hrs expected. Beautiful and fun day's holiday!
T14.00 - T18.00 - damn come down won't let me sleep. Unexpectedly long Luckily I can stay in bed tomorrow. Small price to pay for a buoyant, prismatic day. AMT is a gift.

Next day - feel sleepy, not my full 8 hours, but also feel quietly happy, definite "afterglow". Appetite still suppressed until dinner time (though I didn't rise until the afternoon). No hangover of any kind. Really wowed...

 

[johannes kreisler]

yeah!

 

[Sepher]

I would think that if serotonin release happens from aMT to the same degree as MDMA, and if it is also an MAOI comparable to harmaline in strength, then taking a dose would be instant serotonin syndrome by default. It cannot be a strong MAOI and a strong serotonin releaser, it doesn't make any sense. Surely it's much more likely that it's more one than the other. Maybe its serotonin releasing properties are actually very slight (if at all) and as such are amplified greatly by the MAOI properties of the drug. Or that both properties happen in a reduced enough intensity at "normal" doses.

Interesting theory. My understanding is that aMT is both a 5HT2 agonist in its own right, and a serotonin releaser, strong serotonergic push through that dual action. It may be that I've got this from a source no more reliable than wikipedia though, or it's based on reading here, I forget but it's led me to conclude that its MAOI action must be weak else like you say wouldn't aMT be contraindicated for use with, ummmm, aMT re: serotonin toxicity? I had not considered things from your angle? It has some of the feel of other serotonin releasers like MDMA but then I don't know if agonism of receptors by serotonin release feels different to direct agonism by a psychedelic? Wonder if anyone can expand on that? I believe the MAOI action does become a factor worth consideration at high doses, think at doses much above my personal sweetspot the push is of a different kind all of a sudden, much more insistent, difficult to stay in control inclining towards mania with increased body load.

Psoodonym, likewise very interesting post. Too technical for me to properly comment on really but seems right. I'm inclined towards aMT being a fairly strong releaser and a weak MAOI at usual recreational doses in spite of SA's post..

T00.00 - 80mg gelcap, empty stomach.
T00.30 - coming up with the usual tryptamine signs. Yay!
T00.31 - offered banana loaf & thoughtlessly accepted *nomnom*
T00.36 - nauseous. realised mistake, worried I might also puke the AMT (this made no difference).
T00.37 - vomiting banana loaf. But definitely tripping.
T00.40 - T14.00 - Poor concentration, slight hand-shakiness and jaw-clenching (though don't need gum). Drank lots of water & ate juicy berries. Pupils like a cartoon-character. Heavy tracers, sparks of colour, psychadelic blush over everything illuminated by the psychadelic lamp that always hangs just above my vision when tripping this hard. Things seem slightly frivolous and I enjoy watching people slide around on the snow. Not looking for interaction but when it happens, find myself more gregarious. Longer than the 12hrs expected. Beautiful and fun day's holiday!

Morkin, enjoyed your recent posts. Always nice to see that the advice given here has proved useful for someone as they make their own little discoveries of the magic of aMT. You think you've found your sweetspot at 80mg or inclined to push a little higher yet? May be worth pushing to 100mg next time but IME once you find the sweetspot not much point going much above anymore. It doesn't seem to get suddenly a whole lot better with the extra dose, though there's a little more of the good stuff to be had from it sure. Not so much though to be really worth pursuing, why I stick to 100mg these days and am more than happy with it there.

 

[Morkin]

johannes kreisler - Yeah, damn right! What a wonder... Next day I still feel happy I had such a leisurely and beautified time. Ah!

Sepher - thanks for the tip. 100mg will be my next experiment. I certainly wouldn't say no if I could intensify this experience. It was akin to a couple of hits of acid, but longer and without some of the negative come-down effects ("zinging" in my head when trying to sleep, "Burnt-out" feel in vision-field).

And yes, I owe a debt of gratitude to everyone who has previously shared - thanks for taking the time.

 

[Sepher]

Yep, just like Solipsis said the afterglow is every bit as valuable as the peak experience. I get less of one these days but early trips I had a good week afterwards where I felt suddenly renewed and refreshed, serenely accepting of what I'd been shown and at peace with myself on issues that ordinarily were causes of guilt. I wish I'd made better use of the state at the time and trusted my instincts better, believe there would have been really value in following through more. Working on that lately with other psyches more but aMT's an old fav I revisit often. Has real therapeutic potential I feel but with a gentleness to it, not as confrontational or destructive of ego as acid, shrooms, or as per a very recent discovery the NBOMes at high doses.

 

[Morkin]

Yep, just like Solipsis said the afterglow is every bit as valuable as the peak experience.... Has real therapeutic potential I feel but with a gentleness to it, not as confrontational or destructive of ego as acid, shrooms, or as per a very recent discovery the NBOMes at high doses.

Very interesting. What exactly do you do with this afterglow? Introspect? Meditate? Soup-kitchen? Seriously..?

 

[psood0nym]

It has some of the feel of other serotonin releasers like MDMA but then I don't know if agonism of receptors by serotonin release feels different to direct agonism by a psychedelic? Wonder if anyone can expand on that?

Basically, the difference is that serotonergic psychedelics (LSD, psilocin, DMT, etc.) bind with a subset of serotonin receptors -- most notably 5HT2a, though there are others -- whereas a serotonin releaser increases intersynaptic concentrations of your own endogenous serotonin, which of course binds with all serotonin receptors. Agonism of each subtype of serotonin receptor is correlated with different physiological responses, and so the subjective feel of profoundly increased concentrations of intersynaptic serotonin is representative of a far more generalized pattern of serotonin mediated neuronal pathway activity than that arising from the narrower pattern evoked by psychedelics. Despite the fact that serotonin produces a functional response at 5HT2a receptors, you don't trip (not in any way comparable to psyches at least) because the contributions of 5HT2a and it's trippy kin are essentially being drowned out in the noise (probably).

If you want an idea of what just serotonin feels like get yourself MDAI, as it is a selective serotonin releaser. After that you will likely have a better appreciation of how serotonin release colors the experience of triple monoamine releasers like MDMA, meth, 6-APB, and, I'm pretty certain, aMT. I'd describe it as a "swimmy" wavy empathetic sort of sensation.

 

[Sepher]

Cheers psoodonym, yeah that makes sense. I've wondered in the past what causes the obvious differences between psyches despite lots of them mainly plugging into 5HT2a. Best analogy I came up with was a graphic equaliser, chem in question activating a particular subset of the 5HTs like the sliders on an EQ boost certain frequencies with wildly different effects depending which ones you select.

Not tried MDAI. Read disappointing reports on previously available stuff, believe recent synths available meant to be somewhat more worthwhile. May well take you up on the suggestion.

Very interesting. What exactly do you do with this afterglow? Introspect? Meditate? Soup-kitchen? Seriously..?

More act on the revelations that came to me under the influence while I had the feel that that's what I wanted to do before old patterns of behaviour reasserted themselves and I lost the feeling and motivation. That's the difficulty with psyches. Instructive revelations are ten a penny but integrating the lessons learned and putting them to use takes effort and sustained will, not something that comes easily to me.

 

[Morkin]

More act on the revelations that came to me under the influence while I had the feel that that's what I wanted to do before old patterns of behaviour reasserted themselves and I lost the feeling and motivation. That's the difficulty with psyches. Instructive revelations are ten a penny but integrating the lessons learned and putting them to use takes effort and sustained will, not something that comes easily to me.

That's great this comes with such a value!
But for me, it was all pretty lights, colours & chuckles.
I find phenylethylamines more introspective.

It won't be serotonin depletion, just tolerance. I'm sure you know tryptamines build it very quickly - dosing two days in a row probably won't be effective.

So is this stuff like LSD where you have to double dose each day?

 

[Sepher]

Even double dosing wouldn't get anything like what you want from it, and certainly nowhere near the peak of the trip day one. Could barely call it a trip, be lucky to get even much in the way of OEVs beyond the subtlest effects, no OEV, stimulation more than anything but no ideation. Completely pointless IMO. Tolerance builds very fast.

 

[Morkin]

Thanks man. How long would you give it? I'm hoping a week, but I can wait if longer - it's worth it!

 

[Sepher]

Yeah, 7 days seems good to me. Think you could trip again a little sooner with decent results but 7 days to be sure of no diminishing of effect. Doesn't seem to develop more of a tolerance over time much even with little runs at the stuff, certainly not with repeating weekly dosing over 3 weeks or so at least though longer runs would do it at some point I'm sure.

 

[Morkin]

Good advice, much obliged!

 

[psood0nym]

Good advice, much obliged!

Erm, read on please.

So is this stuff like LSD where you have to double dose each day?

No. That quote of Transform's from last February isn't in regard to aMT rapidly developing a tolerance to itself, but in regard to the cross tolerance induced lack of visuals from aMT due to the user being replied to having used truffles and 4-AcO-MiPT recently (which, unlike aMT, are not serotonin releasers) Read the post before it. Also, I'm pretty sure it is mostly because of serotonin depletion that an equivalent aMT dose won’t work two days in a row, not because of tolerance.

Yeah, 7 days seems good to me. Think you could trip again a little sooner with decent results but 7 days to be sure of no diminishing of effect. Doesn't seem to develop more of a tolerance over time much even with little runs at the stuff, certainly not with repeating weekly dosing over 3 weeks or so at least though longer runs would do it at some point I'm sure.

Treat aMT like MDMA. A serotonin dump probably takes months, not weeks or days to recover from (I think there's articles posted in this thread somewhere with the data). If I recall correctly, Shasha Shulgin said of empathogens: "once in a season."

Source

In rats, who are faster metabolizers than humans generally speaking, serotonin recovery from MDMA takes over three weeks, and longer if MDMA is given again within the recovery period. This is probably variably true whether you're talking about MDMA, MDA, MDAI, aMT, 4-FA, 6 or 5APB, as they all work in similar ways. Strong serontonin releasers will wreak havoc on the body and your emotions if used too often (see: meth heads)

 

[Sepher]

Also, I'm pretty sure it is mostly because of serotonin depletion that an equivalent aMT dose won’t work two days in a row, not because of tolerance.

If aMT binds directly to 5HTs ( 5HT2a mainly ) it will produce tolerance surely? I've been led to believe the binding causes internalisation of receptors that will need to recycle back out, whether that's direct agonism by aMT or by the serotonin it releases. Could be a combination of tolerance and serotonin depletion but it's not purely depletion by itself, is it?

Treat aMT like MDMA. A serotonin dump probably takes months, not weeks or days to recover from (I think there's articles posted in this thread somewhere with the data). If I recall correctly, Shasha Shulgin said of empathogens: "once in a season . . . . Strong serotonin releasers will wreak havoc on the body and your emotions if used too often

You're right of course. I was talking purely about how soon I can get full effects with no noticeable loss of intensity to the trip but sure, not advisable you do it week in, week out, no. I should have made that more clear. Right to pull me up on that. Cheers.

 

[psood0nym]

If aMT binds directly to 5HTs ( 5HT2a mainly ) it will produce tolerance surely? I've been led to believe the binding causes internalisation of receptors that will need to recycle back out, whether that's direct agonism by aMT or by the serotonin it releases. Could be a combination of tolerance and serotonin depletion but it's not purely depletion by itself, is it?

Yes it will produce tolerance, that's why I said "mostly." It's just that because serotonin release contributes so much to the aMT trip (much of the empathy aspect, theoretically), and because the change is so large, that I imagine lack of serotonin contributes more to the waning of effects experienced by the too frequent aMT user than does 5HT2a receptor down regulation and other mechanisms of tolerance development.

 

[johannes kreisler]

just smoked ~17mg aMT as my own birthday present. quite excited. and a little anxious as I never smoked such an amount in one go and have no idea how strong it will be. :D

t+3,5: strangely underwhelming at first, redosed 10mg and 5 later on. had an absolutely hilarious conversation with my dad (while smoking a joint): in his hand he had a smartphone - for the first time ever! had an enormous amount of fun explaining him (via normal phone) this science fiction device and slowly, slowly guiding him towards stages where actual video-communication via skype is possible. oh the wonder! XD

playing guitar is amazing. I remember someone raving about aMTs lush beach bum vibe....thats what it is. wonderful.

 

[Ben So Furry]

This has been disappearing off menus in the uk of late, where it is in stock it is soooo cheap! Because I've been a good boy all year and because I miss my old friend plus the fact my better half is away at the weekend I'm going to dose 60mg. I'm not even sure why I bother trying any other RC's or other drugs at all I find aMT so perfect in effect and the afterglow that lasts for weeks is, well, special. Special and beautiful.

My question is this: does it have to be white vinegar to convert to a salt? Is it possible to use lemon juice? I plan to dose rectally but if I don't intend to buy anything to convert it, I'll just dose orally instead.

Hurry up weekend! Here's hoping psood0nym posts another epic post in the DXM thread that had me in tears of laughter for ages the last time I used aMT.

 

[Beefy]

I've been wanting to try aMT for a while now. a site i see that has it, it's from new seller, so idk if i should trust it or not. if i'm going to try and get anything, i like it to be domestic. but now they have mdai and 5-IT, which i never really heard of before. but i'm going to keep my eyes open on the aMT. this discussion has been helpful on telling me what i should expect.
I wonder if the sites that sell it in teh uk, if htey would ship to usa if paid with money order or something else other then a c.c.

 

[justinsayno]

^ as its illegal in the USA i kinda doubt it i'm afraid...the ones that are willing to do it may well be scams. I could be wrong tho...just a thought