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The Big & Dandy 5-APB Thread

It's against the rules for me to make specific recommendations. I suggest you do plenty of research & make an informed choice.
 
It would be appropriate to mention though, that combining serotonin releasers (MDMA and 5-APB) in such a short space of time is likely to carry a similar risk to taking two doses of MDMA in the same time and should therefore be avoided. Such frequent dosing leaves the users with very depleted serotonin reserves, blocks serotonin replenishment, ramps up tolerance very quickly and will increase the impact of any neurotoxic effects.
 
Heard good things about 5-APB when it is combined with 6-APB. Heard some sources say it is very close to MDMA.

Can anyone comment on this from experience?
 
Preliminary testing indicates that the succinate salt may be MUCH less potent than originally suspected, with the HCl salt requiring approximately 60% of the dose.

Technical bit: NMR analysis indicates that all compounds which have diprotic acids as their counterion have the acid in a 1:1 ratio - this is for both phenethylamine succinates and tryptamine fumarates. A couple of samples of the same compound from different vendors indicates this varies too. 6-APB succinate from one vendor gives a succinate signal at 2.55 of integral 6H, and from another vendor integral 9.6H!
 
SpikeBall said:
Heard good things about 5-APB when it is combined with 6-APB. Heard some sources say it is very close to MDMA.

Can anyone comment on this from experience?
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Feels more like MDA than MDMA to me, mainly because I don't get the restless legs and that pushy feeling to MOVE. Also, the experience lasts quite a bit longer, which is nice.

Basically, I really enjoy both of them, together or separate. If you like MDMA and/or it's close cousin MDA, then you'll almost definitely enjoy these compounds.

One more thing... If you're looking for an experience that resembles MDMA, I think you'll have more luck with 5-MABP. Check out the Big & Dandy 5-MAPB thread
 
^ "Glad I haven't messed with the HCl variants yet"

Why? The reasons for your concern aren't clear to me at all. Thanks.
 
Mela said:
Okie dokie - a star has passed me some info...

The pka of 6-APB is around 10 (a tad under). Which makes sense, as most amines fall 9-11.

The potential for salt formation can be determined by comparing the pKas of the acid and bases involved, and they must be sufficiently different to allow stable salt formation.

Succinic Acid: pKa(1) = 4.2; pKa(2) = 5.6

Delta(pKa) = 10 - 4.2 = +5.8 for monoprotic; 10 -5.6 = +4.4 for diprotic.

So using the typical calculation used for this sort of biz, both the monoprotic and diprotic salts are feasible for 6-APB succinate.

Example, doxylamine has a pka of 4.4, and will form the monoprotic succinate salt (delta-pKa = +0.2), but not the diprotic (4.4 - 5.6 = -1.2). In contrast, Metoprolol has pKa of 9.5, and so forms the diprotic (delta-pKa for diprotic = +3.9).

Given the above, I'd assume that the APBs would form diprotic salts with succinic acid. They are sufficiently basic to remove both protons from the counterion. I suppose they could buffer or something during salting - but don't believe that's likely.

Feel free to correct me, as this is based (as noted earlier) on tattered memories/experience in this area :/

ABE: just rereading that paper from earlier - they found 65% of the ions in the sample were succinate, with 32% being 6-APB o_0

So it seems some batches of 6-APB succinate contained about 32% 6-APB...
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Lazy labs being lazy and 'finishing' the job early.
 
Snorting 30mg of 5-APB gave me extremely strong body high. Maybe even overwhelming at some point. I am pretty experienced with MDMA , but after bombing 50mg's of 5-APB the other day on top of alcohol and MPA was really really strong. Am I sensitive to this stuff or is it very potent,? because I thought I had taken only small doses but effects were pretty intense. Now I don't know how much should i take next time.
 
closeyoureyes said:
Snorting 30mg of 5-APB gave me extremely strong body high. Maybe even overwhelming at some point. I am pretty experienced with MDMA , but after bombing 50mg's of 5-APB the other day on top of alcohol and MPA was really really strong. Am I sensitive to this stuff or is it very potent,? because I thought I had taken only small doses but effects were pretty intense. Now I don't know how much should i take next time.
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I'm not like most people on other forums (who seem to be taking 100-250+ in one go, never mind in one sitting).
50mg of 5-apb plugged had me in more than a good state, I went up to 100mg (albeit oral dose) and enjoyed it, but never felt the need to go higher. I rarely take this kind of chem, so my experiences/doses dont tend to translate well the majority of the time.
 
Yeah, the pKa indicates it should be doubly deprotonated but why doubly deprotonate some and leave others fully protonated if there is an excess of succinate? I think this is a combination of inherent chemical properties and lazy labs, accounting for the original unexpected result and the wide variation.

FYI, 4-APB is a common impurity of 6-APB and a headache for labs. It's likely that less careful labs will have a not-insignificant amount in their 6-APB. 5-APB does not suffer from the same issues.

Good luck salting your own 6-APB from freebase - this has been a HUGE problem for producers and was the reason behind the multiple-month delay of "benzo fury" in 2010. Succinate appears to be all that works.
 
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And I would assume other salts are possible, as there is supposedly 5-APB.HCl knocking around. And it would wyrd if 6-APB didn't have the same capacity.
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It would indeed be weird - I wish you the best of luck and would be fascinated to know how you get on. It's definitely a different beast to 5-APB

why bother properly crashing the compound out when you can chuck in excess succinate to ensure you shift the equilibria sufficiently to get the salt very easily? Guess it's cheaper than the time required to titrate the salt formation properly.
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See, excess protonated succinate should be soluble in a non-polar solvent. I'd be interested to see if DCM removed anything - I know 6-APDB was insoluble in chloroform.
Even if that wasn't the case, getting the amount of succinate right should really be SO easy, it just seems to obvious.
 
NMR is pretty quantitative so a higher integral value indicates a higher succinate content. At the moment we're all just speculating but it does seem to me as if the very high levels of succinate indicate poor lab procedure, even if the 1:1 ratio is being caused by an inherent chemical property.
 
Legal high Benzo Fury may be dangerous due to stimulant and hallucinogenic effects


one of the main ingredients of Benzo Fury (also known as 5-APB) acts on brain tissue like both a stimulant and a hallucinogen – a combination of properties that is often found in illegal drugs and which can make them dangerous to users. The researchers believe this information should be disseminated to let potential users know the possible dangers of the drug.
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8)
I'd expect something a bit less sensational out of a university but what can ya do, eh?
 
MDA and even MDMA also have both stimulant and hallucinogenic effects. Article is funny.

I actually haven't heard too many compulsive redose stories for the APBs. (Well, no more than MDMA, at least.) The sub-cathinones (mephedrone etc.) had way more.
 
kai0110 said:
Today is Feb. 04, 2011 and I have just drank/consumed roughly 100mg of 5-APB. Yes I am certain that this was the correct substance after looking at quantitative analysis sheets......

I dropped this (unknown substance to me) around 8:10 pm. I have researched it and it appears to be a stimulant with mild entactogen qualities. Reviews about the onset say it comes on quite slowly and a decent reverse progression. Structurally it is of the phenethylamine and of the amphetamine class which is an analogue of MDA as well. 5-(2-Aminopropyl)-2,3-dihydrobenzofuran (5-APDB, 3-Desoxy-MDA, EMA-4)

I am focusing on breathing more freely and deliberately! Open eyed meditation. Once I start a sentence I do not want to stop. I feel like I can go on like this forever. I feel stimulated and more aware; I am not at all having hallucinatory images or OEV for that matter.

9:28 PM

Still yawning! And yawning……

I have stopped cracking my neck!! I am very excited about this!

I cannot stop moving. I am energized yet trying to sit still. Once I get moving, I cannot stop usually. OK now I feel something. I feel a shiftiness and gradual upward mobility toward something since I have no experience points with this substance whatsoever. I still feel like I have total mental clarity and control over my emotions. Slightly elevated visual disturbance. Eyes seem a little shaky and harder to focus on the screen at the moment.

Watched a documentary on Albert Hoffman tonight called ‘Hoffman’s Potion’. Humphrey Osmond was quite a central figure of the entire film. They had some GREAT footage of Aldous Huxley and L. Ron Hubbard. More importantly was Aldous. I have always found his work stimulating and progressive. Unadulterated by overwhelming societal vantage points. His makeup was particularly enriching to my reading experience.

OK

9:49 pm

Yawning. My eye focus seems lazy and unwilling to cooperate at times. I am not alarmed by this, I am just annoyed. I like being productive. I like clarity. When rushes of past tense emotions come flooding in like a waterfall out of nowhere, I seem to get a little misidentified and anxiety builds, eventually decaying me to its bitter end.

Now I feel a rapid onset. I feel slightly confused and foggy. I am still coherent on any level but cannot seem to decipher this one yet. Navigating in the dark now. I cannot seem to bring myself to the brink of the Salvia Divinorum. I try and relate on all past experiences but cannot. Sage cousin as it appears to be.
I am restless now. Body agitated and wants to stretch out end to end. I have had far more uncomfortable experiences along the way.
Stay calm, rest the mind, breathe. Stretch and keep your mind flowing at all costs. Time will eventually dictate who won. I want to crack my neck badly. I won’t do it though.

10:06 pm

Nikola Gala has graced me with his sound. Start to finish, I must say that I loved the album.

I fucking hate losing control of my own body. I hate anything that works without strict approval! I get the old saying about being a push to the adrenergic sites. I can feel elated and profoundly stimulated. This is not secondary. This is forefront and now full-blown. I can definitely feel the effects, took quite some time to demonstrate itself.

10:18 pm

Listening to Robag Wruhme – Wuppdeckmischmampflow

I want to stretch constantly. Now my words aren’t as flowing as they were 30 minutes ago. I am thinking about everything I type. Music is interesting though. Some OEV. Slightly increased body temperature noted.

I cannot stay still!

Feels ok, but distracting my thoughts at times. I don’t particularly care for the feel. It lacks substance/depth, the configuration is wrong. I get sudden urges to expel my forces outward.

10:30 pm

Hands are DRY and coarse.

10:57 pm

No more yawning. Slight elevation, I no longer want to stretch my arms off!!
Seems like I have slight pupil dilation.

12:18 am

I am energized but I am not as heavily load (bodily) as I was before. I was restless for quite some time.

This makes me stretch too much. I want to explode at times. This won’t quit!! The duration seems excessive. (1:20 am)

Never again for as long as I live. I get it but rather wouldn’t. It seems rigid and fruitless. I am writing though so I must give it some credit. I feel well gathered and concise.

Wish residuals would give way to sleep now. Some fucking GHB would do the trick!

1:30 am

I am slowly climbing down. Seems to drag out!

8:00 am

Dozed off, woke up abruptly and had a fucking terrible morning! I felt like my body was constantly fighting this substance. I truly find this uncomfortable and bodily unbearable. I feel light headed and want to faint at times. I feel like I stood up too fast for hours. My wife says that my pupils are huge! Confirmed.
Finally at around 11:30 am or noon, I can feel it release its grip.

NEVER AGAIN!! It was for me a worthless unnecessary endeavor. I hated the uncomfortableness that engulfed me and seemed to last WAY TOO LONG!!
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bro you're about nikola gala and robag?

you're my hero today
 
Does anyone have any experience plugging this? What was your dose? Did it kick in quicker this way? That's mainly what I'm looking for. I've never plugged anything either, but I guess I'll search for a tutorial on how to do that (preferably without any images).
 
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