Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 4-HO-MPT Thread

[Listening]

Wrong thread but is 4acomipt any different from 4homipt?

I don’t have enough experience with the ho to give a definitive comparison, but they are similar. Some have described the aco as more stimulatory and a bit lighter on the headspace, however for me the aco is absolutely perfect. It is my favorite tryptamine these days. When I take it, reality seems everywhere pregnant with itself. Sensual female creativity abound.

 

[Pfafffed]

I was going to ask you/anyone to compare/contrast with 4-ho-mipt, basically the only tryptamine I am familiar with, and my favorite/2nd favorite psychedelic overall. I’m only experienced with LSD (tied for favorite), miprocin, 2ce, 2cb, and much less so with mushrooms, 4acodmt and N,N-dmt.
But I saw your comment about not being a fan of miprocin (hard for me to imagine), so while I’m still interested in your opinion, it may not be very relevant to me.
I just found my first source in like a decade so I was getting excited about all these new-to-me tryptamines I could potentially try. On the menu is 4-HO-MET, -DET, -DPT, -MPT, -EPT; 4-AcO-DET, -MET, -MiPT; and base tryptamines DPT and EPT

4-HO-MET: a deeper, smoother, more sedating and emotional version of 4-AcO-MET's cold, crystal clear eye candy. They're both childlike, but 4-HO-MET is deeper and warmer and more interesting, while 4-AcO-MET is more recreational and refreshing. The internet consensus is that 4-HO-MET is a gem, now supplanting 4-HO-MiPT and 4-AcO-DMT as the internet's favorite 4-sub.

4-xxx-DET: No idea, no internet consensus

4-xxx-DPT: No idea. The internet says that it's shallow and easygoing compared to N,N-DPT. Also a pain in the ass to get the dose right due to inconsistent bioavailability. Some people insufflate it because of this. Tremory/seizurey maybe with some muscle side-effects, although these don't appear to be common side effects.

4-xxx-EPT: Light, pastel confection. They lie to you, telling me everything is right with the world even when it definitely isn't. They're kind to me, but also not challenging or insightful.

4-xxx-MiPT: Impossible to classify. Is it primal or cyberpunk digital? Is it rich or thin? Is it alien or organic? I don't know. They definitely make me enjoy things: my body, food, touch, and narrative. I find them recreational and not insightful, but they can really bring attention and emotion to interpersonal relationships, refreshing appreciation for the love you feel for those that are important to you. Sometimes it all goes sideways and you just end up kinda stoned.

4-xxx-MPT: A warm, gilded relative of 4-xxx-DMT. Baroque and rich, this has depth without being as confronting. It's less harsh, but less earthy and grounded. Is it as honest? That I don't know. Sometimes it whiffs completely and is just a generic, blunting tryptamine like 4-xxx-MALT.

N,N-DPT: It's had books written about it. It's a mega-classic on par with the classical biggies. It's also pretty polarizing--people love it or hate it. I will likely never take it a second time, but I respect it. Again with the tremors. You may not want to explore this if you are nervous about possible seizures, although it appears to have a pretty good safety record all in all.

N,N-EPT: The lightest psychedelic that I've ever used that I would still call a psychedelic, and that's when vaporized. Intimidates absolutely no one. Feels lovely in the body. Erotic and gentle. Not very visual at all, and not very insightful. Still very pleasant if you aren't looking to get your world rocked.

Wrong thread but is 4acomipt any different from 4homipt?

It depends on you. It seems like people fall into one of three camps.
1) All 4 substituted tryptamines are indistinguishable from psilocybin. There's no real difference.
2) 4-substituted tryptamines have individual variation, but there's no difference between hydroxy and acetoxy substitutions at the 2-position.
3) 2) 4-substituted tryptamines have individual variation, and there's a noticeable difference between hydroxy and acetoxy substitutions at the 2-position. This can be potency, duration, or subjective effects.

This is an oversimplification, of course. I fall into category 3. So far, acetoxy subs have been smoother, lighter, more electric, more stimulating, and more shallow. Hydroxy subs have been foggier, bumpier, more muddled, deeper, less jittery, and more insightful.

This holds true for miprocin and mipracetin. I don't really like miprocin (although I want to.) Mipracetin has all of the benefits of miprocin, but yet it seems thinner and more hollowed out, lacking miprocin's richness. Mipracetin lasts longer for me.

4-ho-Met seems the most popular and recreational one, but I’m kinda intrigued by 4hoMPT or 4hoEPT, even though I basically just started learning about them.

I’m kinda scared to take 4acodmt again after my friend had a seizure type event on it. To be fair it was the night after a daytime lsd trip and drinking lots of whiskey. 4acodmt always gave me the shakes so I feel like I was flirting with a seizure or something since I saw it happen to him. Miprocin is pretty light hearted, easygoing, and a gently return to baseline. I’d kinda like something similar to that but different enough to be worth trying instead of just sticking with miprocin.

 

[Pfafffed]

I asked my friend who loves miprocin more than any other psychedelics what they would recommend. They have not tried as many of the four subs as I have. They would recommend mipracetin as a different take on miprocin. If you don't find it any different then well damn, you just got yourself more miprocin. What a shame. They also like 5-MeO-MiPT, but it's not very visual

 

[porkstock]

4-HO-MET: a deeper, smoother, more sedating and emotional version of 4-AcO-MET's cold, crystal clear eye candy. They're both childlike, but 4-HO-MET is deeper and warmer and more interesting, while 4-AcO-MET is more recreational and refreshing. The internet consensus is that 4-HO-MET is a gem, now supplanting 4-HO-MiPT and 4-AcO-DMT as the internet's favorite 4-sub.

That honestly makes metocin sound great. I was under the impression that metocin was the internet’s favorite, but due to being almost purely recreational and visual compared to other 4-subs.
That had kinda put me off it, though I have to admit to enjoying miprocin quite a bit and agreeing with your opinion of it also being mostly “fun” and entertaining. So, it wouldn’t be a bad thing if metocin was purely rec. but the adjectives deep, smooth, emotional make it sound better to me.

4-xxx-EPT: Light, pastel confection. They lie to you, telling me everything is right with the world even when it definitely isn't. They're kind to me, but also not challenging or insightful.

Sounds nice too. I had put a “star” next to 4-ho-ept and 4-ho-mpt as ones that seemed interesting at a first glance/read through of the big and dandy threads (repeating myself, sorry)

4-xxx-MiPT: Impossible to classify.

So not just me then? Kinda reassuring. I can’t quite nail it down either but I know I have had some interesting and varied trips with miprocin. I always enjoy nature and miprocin seems to mix well with that, and one of my most memorable trips was going to a sit-down bakery to have full English style tea (I’m American) which was delicious and fancy and hilarious. Felt like the Alice in wonderland tea party a bit
I agree pretty strongly with your assessment of miprocin, except for not liking it haha

So far, acetoxy subs have been smoother, lighter, more electric, more stimulating, and more shallow. Hydroxy subs have been foggier, bumpier, more muddled, deeper, less jittery, and more insightful.

I seem to have the idea, not sure from where, that hydroxyls are preferred somehow over acetoxies. Just from reading years ago I think I compiled that opinion, and from my own preferences with 4homipt (pretty easy, and while somewhat jittery on the comeup, not too bad) and 4acodmt (just so shakey and I cant DO much of anything on it like hike or bike)

You say that AcOs are smoother but that 4homet is smoother than it’s acetoxy - an exception? And what do you mean by smooth? On the body? On the mind? Similar to saying it feels soft or fluffy?

 

[Pfafffed]

That honestly makes metocin sound great. I was under the impression that metocin was the internet’s favorite, but due to being almost purely recreational and visual compared to other 4-subs.

I gotta say, I don't really know where you're coming from here. People do say that metocin is purely recreational, although I didn't find it to be. But it sounds like you're hoping to find something like miprocin, just different enough to still be worthwhile, and you agree that miprocin is...largely recreational.

I will say that I've taken metocetin 4 times. Every time was stunningly visual as well as cognitively light. That doesn't mean that it was completely easy breezy--we're still talking about a 4-substituted tryptamine. It still had a far blunter headspace than most phenethylamines. I just found that it focused on childlike wonderment, not unlike mushrooms can.

My one experience with 4-HO-MET was very different. It wasn't very visual and it was a glorious experience, but it was much closer to mushrooms than miprocin ever is. My miprocin aficionado friend agreed--they had the same kind of filterless mania that they only get from 4-AcO-DMT and mushrooms, and ended up taking a benzo to kill their trip. It wasn't because they were having a bad time, but because they thought they were going to be having a recreational metacetin-like experience and got something much more. That said, our experience is in the minority. I do suspect that the reason it's popular is that it has the potential to produce both recreational and deep experiences, and it can be highly visual on top of that.

I seem to have the idea, not sure from where, that hydroxyls are preferred somehow over acetoxies. Just from reading years ago I think I compiled that opinion, and from my own preferences with 4homipt (pretty easy, and while somewhat jittery on the comeup, not too bad) and 4acodmt (just so shakey and I cant DO much of anything on it like hike or bike)

You say that AcOs are smoother but that 4homet is smoother than it’s acetoxy - an exception? And what do you mean by smooth? On the body? On the mind? Similar to saying it feels soft or fluffy?

Tough to say. Some people find the acetoxies are less potent, creep up more slowly, have less comeup anxiety, transition through their stages smoother, and last longer, but are otherwise identical. Other people find that there are differences in subjective effects. So far, I initially thought that I preferred acetoxy substitutions because I found psilacetin to be less cloudy and sleepy than 4-PO-DMT. Now, I'm not so sure. It may be possible to generalize, and it may not. I think both mipracetin and miprocin have merits, I think both metocin and metacetin have different uses. 4-AcO-EPT was too stimulating for me at 30mg, but was easygoing and mellow at 10-20, almost too much so. I think the 4-HO sub may be more promising, but as of yet I've only vaped it. But yeah, I get the impression that for me, 4-HO subs are likely to be the ones that I go to if I need to get cognitive work done while 4-AcO subs are the ones I'm more likely to use if I want to be active and not too bogged down with my headspace.

When I said that acetoxies may be smoother, I meant that the come-up is usually more gradual and less abrupt.

 

[porkstock]

I gotta say, I don't really know where you're coming from here. People do say that metocin is purely recreational, although I didn't find it to be. But it sounds like you're hoping to find something like miprocin, just different enough to still be worthwhile, and you agree that miprocin is...largely recreational.

Yup that’s pretty much exactly where I’m coming from
Sounds like even if metocin isn’t purely recreational (as compared to miprocin being largely recreational) it’s still different enough to be worthwhile. Your comments on metocin have got me about ready to head over to the store and pick some up right now!

4-AcO subs are the ones I'm more likely to use if I want to be active and not too bogged down with my headspace.

When I said that acetoxies may be smoother, I meant that the come-up is usually more gradual and less abrupt.

I admit my experience is pretty narrow, with 4-aco-dmt being the only acetoxy I’ve tried...but it is the only psychedelic I’ve had trouble being active on. Maybe it’s an exception.

I hope you don’t think I’m nitpicking semantics here, I just find this conversation interesting. You said 4-ho-Met was smoother than its axetoxy right? So is that another exception to the rule?


“Blunter” headspace is another term I don’t quite get. I *am* a native English speaker believe it or not haha. I think you mean that phens are generally clear headed while tryptamines come with some headspace that is not as cognitively “sharp.”
I don’t feel very “sharp” on any psychedelic haha (maybe lsd sometimes when you get that manic on top of the world feeling of just being so connected to everything) but I do know the relatively clear headed space from 2ce or 2cb.
But then again, I wouldn’t describe any of my tryptamine experiences as blunt-minded. Or would I? The more I discuss this the more confused or less able to describe it I become. Maybe my sober mind is relatively blunt?

 

[Pfafffed]

Yeah, we don't have a good shared vocabulary for the phenomenology of these experiences. The people with the Subjective Effects Index are working on this, but they seem to be starting with the comparatively low hanging fruit of visual experiences. Those can at least be objectively replicated a lot of the time.

When I say blunt, I think a lot of other people would say stoned. And while I agree that I don't usually feel "sharp" on most psychedelics, I definitely do feel comparatively "dull" with 4-HO/AcO-subbed tryptamines, even the clearheaded ones. The best non-psychedelic frame of reference would be the brain fog that comes from taking too much noopept, or perhaps the start of a blood sugar crash.

I hope you don’t think I’m nitpicking semantics here, I just find this conversation interesting. You said 4-ho-Met was smoother than its axetoxy right? So is that another exception to the rule?

My use of this word is inconsistent:
4-AcO-MET has less wild and inconsistent come-up than 4-HO-MET
4-HO-MET feels emotionally and somatically more like sunshine-warmed silk blankets compared to 4-AcO-MET's brisk ocean breeze.

 

[Keeloverandfly]

50mg of this stuff was a solid waste of time.

I tripped a month ago and didn’t write my experience down but it was lackluster mentally and visually. Started with 25mg and gobbled down 15 and 10 more over 1.5 hours. Oh well!

 

[Pfafffed]

50mg of this stuff was a solid waste of time.

I tripped a month ago and didn’t write my experience down but it was lackluster mentally and visually. Started with 25mg and gobbled down 15 and 10 more over 1.5 hours. Oh well!

Weird. I've had two experiences with it. The first was sumptuous, rich, and satisfying. The second was bland and forgettable. I'm glad they happened in that order. If the bland one had been first, I don't think I would revisit it. As it is, I'm still pretty excited to.