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The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread - Act Three

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4-AcO-DMT multistage effects and visual dropoff

Evening PD,

I have taken 4-AcO-DMT twice now, and I have experienced something I found rather interesting that you might be able to shed some light on.

For some context on an experience which seems fairly typical:

The first time was 20mg oral. A friend and I spent about an hour and a half in a mild headspace and visuals before at about the two hour mark before rapidly transitioning (over 10 minutes or so) into a considerably more 'psychedelic' trip. The trip lasted about 5 hours with a gradual, pleasant comedown.

The second time was 30mg oral (well over two months later, no interim substances, taken in liquid, reminded my of green tea). This time however was very different in ways beyond what I would consider atypical of a higher dose.

On this occasion, the come up was much more rapid, around 30 minutes to full 'psilocin' level effects. Strong visuals etc etc. This lasted about 2.5 hours.

It is at this point where I had a strange experience. Over the course of <5 minutes, the intensity of the visual experience went from 100% to quite literally zero. Open and closed eye. Gone completely. I was overcome by negative emotion, and the subsequent events ended up being the most powerful of my life, even staring into the back of my eyelids.

Now, I would have considered this an atypical experience if several friends had not also experienced similar effects at this dosage level (even with different batches from different vendors).

At lower doses, we all had gradual, multistage come ups with distinct transitions, 5-6 hour durations and gradual come downs.

At higher doses (30-40mg), all of us had rapid, single stage come ups, intense experiences for about 2-2.5 hours, followed by a complete visual (CEV and OEV) drop off which lasted for about 45 minutes, then a rapid return to baseline.

What intrigues me, is that I have never come across a report detailing effects of this nature at doses similar or higher to what we have taken. The vast majority of reports reflect the 'typical' experience which I experienced the first time. Can anyone shed light on what might be behind this?

Thanks!
caitsith
 
caitsith said:
On this occasion, the come up was much more rapid, around 30 minutes to full 'psilocin' level effects. Strong visuals etc etc. This lasted about 2.5 hours.

It is at this point where I had a strange experience. Over the course of <5 minutes, the intensity of the visual experience went from 100% to quite literally zero. Open and closed eye. Gone completely. I was overcome by negative emotion, and the subsequent events ended up being the most powerful of my life, even staring into the back of my eyelids.
Click to expand...

please elaborate on the subsequent events, if you don't mind me asking. do you mean that the visual/fun part of the trip stopped and you were immersed in a spiritual type experience that was completely devoid of visual input whatsoever? or simply you went back to "normality" with some kind of "trip-end shock" before feeling totally normal again?
 
greenmeanies said:
please elaborate on the subsequent events, if you don't mind me asking. do you mean that the visual/fun part of the trip stopped and you were immersed in a spiritual type experience that was completely devoid of visual input whatsoever? or simply you went back to "normality" with some kind of "trip-end shock" before feeling totally normal again?
Click to expand...

Definitely the former. This is somewhat long, but it was a powerful experience for me. Hope you enjoy!

During the transition from 100% to 0% visuals, I was overcome by every kind of negative emotion that I'm aware of. I remember very distinctly thinking "well... I guess this is what being suicidal feels like.." And I definitely felt that. Music was irritating, turned it off. While logically I knew I would likely be fine, time had effectively stopped for me at this point.

I ultimately decided to lay down in bed and attempt to ride the whole thing out. While still very much in a immersive headspace (one even greater than that of DPT) with my eyes closed, there was nothing but darkness inside.

Not long after lying down, I started getting the sensation that pieces of myself were breaking away. Small at first, gradually growing in size. My thoughts were slowing down. It was becoming harder to remember friends, family, my connections to them. Not because I was losing my humanity, I was still very emotional, its that I simply couldn't remember. I was becoming less complete, both physically and mentally.

I should note, DPT and other psychedelics have taken me well past complete ego death. This was not at all similar. This was much more sinister.

It progressed from a breaking to a siphoning. I was a person in a space, using a set volume to think. And this space was shrinking. Something was siphoning off my consciousness. My ability to construct and consider ideas were slowing rapidly (less computing power I suppose), and it was an increasing struggle to navigate my mental space, as it was becoming porous and slow.

At this point, I was fairly convinced that I was physically dying. Even while all the science behind the compound and every ounce of logic said that this was highly unlikely, logic was becoming hard to consider. Strangely, I was okay with this. I had come to terms with my death. I did consider, while I feared what my friends and family would think finding me this way, I didn't fight it. I was lost in myself, for better or worse.

Gradually, I, as a conscious entity, dimmed. I could feel parts of me leaving my heart, head, and stomach, and after every instance becoming proportionally weaker.

I had a sense of the impending. I thought "well, this is it I suppose. See you soon Dad." That instant the rest of my thoughts were pulled from me out through my toes, and even with my eyes closed, the last parts of me saw a green wisp leave my feet.

Then, there was nothing. In a way I find impossible to explain, and I only rationalized afterwards, there was simply nothing. No thought, no mind, no spirit. In that space, I was gone. In all effect, I'm pretty convinced that if I was hooked up to an EKG, I would have been completely braindead for however long that lasted. I have no reference.

Then there was a pinprick of light. Far far away. I was aware again, but I was not myself, I was something else, an entity of seemingly limitless power pulling the universe back from its edges. Suddenly I was in complete control of everything, at all levels of creation. Atoms, time, life, existence, I was in complete control. I was bound by my morals, my sense of right and wrong, my desire to help others. And who needed my help most right now was this empty space on his bed.

I pulled all parts of him from the furthest reaches of reality, and atom by atom, memory by memory, pulled from the ethereal, slowly but surely back into his mind. Everything that he was, I built, better than before. The worst parts of him, doubts, uncertainties, were considered and rejected. Left to the hell where they belonged.

After timeless eons, he was finished. Restored again, but without the weight of doubt and pain. When satisfied, I left him, saying "Take this now, as forever part of me, is you."

And with a beam of unfathomable energy, I was alive again.

Where was I? What happened? I can feel my bed, but its far away. I am here right now. In the blackness. But I was consumed in a confidence, a happiness, a contented state of oneness that I have never yet or ever expect to experience again.

I was suddenly taken through some of the most important moments of my life. Perfectly recreated, minus the visuals. Touch, taste, smell, and hearing were all exactly as I had experienced them, remembering the visuals (as any normal memory). Trips with my family, memories further back that I can even now remember (only now what they were of), looking up from my crib in my old house (where I only lived until 6 months), my mother holding me, behind a table with a gun, defending us from burglars. The reason we moved.

Through seemingly trivial things such as high school band concerts, times with friends and relatives, each time finding an element which as subtly shaped me as a person. Even the bad elements, followed by reconsideration and realization.

Perhaps most importantly, the memories and thoughts leading up to my father's death (I am only 20 now, he died when I was 17) to inoperable cancers on his lungs, brain, colon, and liver. The most vivid memory of my life is watching him slowly slip away, and look in his eyes as he stared at me. Everything about this moment, flawlessly recreated, and every significance of it revealed to me again.

This eventually faded, after which I began considering what happened. Millions of years passed and I opened my eyes several times, each time being met with a blinking 8:34 on my clock.

I gradually came down. I was able to stand, walk around, but found myself repeating actions and events (such as leaving to go to the bathroom) 2 or more times, without ever leaving my room.

Eventually, I simply sat in silence for several hours, and considered what happened.
--

Afterwards, even though I went through 45 minutes (eg, forever!) of the most hellish part of my existence that I have encountered (I have never been so emotional, being overwhelmed by fear, inadequacy, guilt, self hatred, disgust, a longing for death, powerless, unloved and unimportant, alone and worthless, nor do I wish to again) but that and the following experience is by far the most spiritual (being fairly non-spiritual this is something I usually give little credit to), moving, and life-changing experience I have ever had, and would not trade it for the world.

So yeah, thats what happened then :)
 
WOW caitsith...beautiful!!

i got goosebumps all over my body as i read your report :)

<3<3<3
 
thank you for the details. surprisingly, i have had a similar experience (negative emotions about myself, feeling parts of my identity fade into blackness, sensation of physical/mental death, and "reboot" from a point of white light...) on harmala+psilocybes... that was definitely a solid ++++ i'm going to say (way beyond "ego death" into "ego reconstruction")

i haven't taken 4-AcO-DMT past 14-16mg because i kinda had the feeling that it was powerful enough to create these experiences... and i don't really know if i need another one like that yet :)
 
That trip report may suggest that not only do different people metabolize 4-AcO-DMT in different ways and at different rates but one can metabolize it differently every time they take the compound! depending on the state of ones health and neurology even the time of the day could effect 4-AcO-DMT greatly. Perhaps different amounts get metabolized into psilocin depending on the conditions of your body when you take it, when the trip is more DMT like then 4-AcO-DMT is working more so on it's own, being changed to psilocin less, but the more mushroom like trips then 4-AcO-DMT is changing to psilocin at rapid rates.
 
Wow caitsith thank you for spending the time to detail that report. I was hanging on to every word! The detail is great, welcome to BlueLight btw! continue to share because that kind of trip was of the most revelatory and useful of trips IMO.

The extreme childhood memory is incredibly interesting that you could remember something from the start of your life and recall it with accuracy. This trip report has a few reall signature phenomenon occurring with psychedelic trips. Leaves me to think that 4-AcO-DMT might just be one of the new tried and true staple psychedelics alongside mushrooms themselves and LSD.
 
interestingly enough, at 25mg, on my second trip, i got almost no visuals. some patterning and some ripples and morphing of letter, but nothing too radical. very different from my first trip (~20mg), when i loved being out doors.

the comeup was incredibly fast though, after 30 mins i could feel the effects, and after 1h i was peaking. music sounded awsome, imagination was running wild, pretty meditative and relaxing.

i wonder if next time i will be treated to more visuals.... i guess this time it was a matter of wrong setting for the trip.

also, whats the shelf life of this chem? when kept in cool, dry, dark place? its been sitting in storage the past 2 months. could it have degraded?
 
I think abores experience just goes to show that every single time you take a psychedelic, you risk opening doors that you might not want to open. That kind of opening up is part of the very nature of the experience. And while 4-aco-dmt is generally quite a gentle and forgiving compound, it is also an extremely strong psychedelic.

I remember reading something by Myron Stolaroff, and he said that when they used psychedelics in therapy, larger doses were often less productive emotionally than smaller ones, because with large doses people get caught up in the intensity and foreigness of the whole expereince, whereas with small doses people can dig deeper into their psyche, resulting in more issues emerging and thus a more uncomfortable experience.

Anyways, I hope you're doing well now abore.
 
I've tried this a couple times, and been a little underwhelmed. But all other participants were pretty impressed with it. Seems to be quite active for the others at ~20mg, but I required closer to 40, and it didn't really get past a ++. Provided some pretty incredibly intense music appreciation at some points, felt like the chello was literally pulling me apart. And during the comedown, watching 30 Rock, I was crying I was so happy. But a lot of the trip was spent in my bed feeling shitty. So, mixed results with this, would like to try again. 4-ho-met next though. :-)
 
n3wt said:
So I'm a relatively experienced psychedelic user at this point, and I had kind of a weird reaction to 4-aco-dmt recently.

Normally, 4-aco-dmt is completely benign to me, no matter how much I take. Other than the fact that if I take way too much I tend to turn into a puddle of psychedelic confusion, which is never fun. Who wants to spend a few hours in complete confusion?

But a couple weeks ago, I took what I thought to be a relatively normal dose (24mg) and during the comeup, about half an hour later, I had what I have to describe as a panic attack. I've never had a panic attack before, but that's the only way I know how to describe it. I had the chest pain, the unfounded all consuming fear, and the inability to rectify it. I had to just let it pass, it took about another half an hour. I don't make it sound so bad, but in reality, it was horrible, almost unbearable. I've had bad trips before, but this was so much worse, I don't even really know how to describe it, if I hadn't known better I'd have thought it was a long drawn out heart attack.

I'd never had that reaction before, and I'm wondering if anyone else has ever had that happen to them, with 4aces or any other psychedelic...

Since this happened to me I have been reluctant to dose even at moderate trip levels with any psychedelic...
Click to expand...

I experienced just this a few nights ago. It was the 2nd time tripping in a week, and 30 minutes after dosing I felt awful. Racing around, literally panicking for no reason. I took a shower and .5mg of xanax, I was fine in another 30 minutes...

I felt like my world was ending, and that anything that could go wrong in theory, would go wrong.

Every trip before that has been a lot of fun, although I must say I'm tired of the jelly-like body feeling 4-aco-dmt gives me.
 
In my experience all tryptamines and natural sources of these (mushrooms, ayahuasca) sometimes produce effects quite different from those expected at the same dose, very strong effects or very light, I do not know the reasons for this.
I think that is not a problem only of the 4-aco-dmt
 
Aleph said:
In my experience all tryptamines and natural sources of these (mushrooms, ayahuasca) sometimes produce effects quite different from those expected at the same dose, very strong effects or very light, I do not know the reasons for this.
I think that is not a problem only of the 4-aco-dmt
Click to expand...

one of my heaviest most context driven mushroom trips was on a dose of only 2-2.5 grams or less, and I have had a full 4-AcO-DMT trip on 12-13mg dose.

I can certainly appreciate low dose trips but I would never want to get caught in a state where I could only handle low dose trips!
 
30mg of 4-Aco-DMT in a very bad set and setting made all the bad parts of caitsith's trip happen to me (great description btw) but with no reassembling. Instead I got stuck in a thought loop for the remaining hours where I'd repeatedly think I was "catching myself" playing tricks on myself. It was the definition of paradox. It was the feeling you get when you "lose the game" over and over and over. Eventually I drank myself to calmness and listened to modest mouse songs while feeling very dissatisfied with what I've become thus far...

I'm thinking that trip put some bad things in my head, I want them out :(
 
I think I have an interesting note about my experience with 4-AcO-DMT. I took 20-22mg of it and had a good experience. Good visuals, and I talked and rambled on for a couple of hours trying to understand how the universe works. Fast forward one month and me and my friend take a 15mg dose, then bump it up about an hour and half or so later with another 6-8mg. The second experience ended up being totally more engulfing and intense. I did no talking and I spent the majority of the time with my eyes closed because the CEVs were so amazing. My friend experienced this as well. When my eyes were closed I might as well have been traveling through hyperspace. I was seeing myself as being the entire universe, and I could feel waves of energy crashing at the top of my head and then flowing and crashing at the bottom of my body as I lay on the floor. Every now and then I opened my eyes and looked around the room noting that my body was the only thing tethering me to this world. These were things I didn't experience the first time I used it.

So what I'm wondering is if bumping the dose like that could have had some kind of effect on what was getting to my brain.

Other factors that might have affected the difference in the two experiences:

1) Setting. The setting was the same room, but the first time I tripped was with about 8 people total and the second time was just me and 3 other people (two were tripping, one was sober).

2) A simpler explanation could be that my scale helped me to get a much bigger dose the second time than I thought I had taken. This is possible being that I went for the cheapest milligram scale I could find, but I will say that I'm extremely careful in trying to get as accurate a dose as possible, and I tend to measure over and over again just to be sure (still possible with such a cheap scale though).

I'm interested in trying to have an experience similar to the second one. Will a higher dose help me achieve this? Or could bumping the dose actual play a factor in it?
 
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Hi all! I think I need an advice
So I've taken 4-AcO-DMT this summer for about 4 times. Dosages were quite different, from about 15mg first time to 35mg last time. And every time I had a terrible headache lasting the whole next day after the trip. So I wonder what could cause this headache and if I need to check my cerebral blood circulation.
Sorry for my poor english, I'm not an english-speaker and never studied it well
 
^
Is 4-AcO-DMT the only psychedelic you tried?

Though I don't tried 4-AcO-DMT, I don't get headaches from other tryptamines(but I don't have much experience with them). Headaches is quite common side-effect after PEA trip for me(and seems that for other people too). Aspirin, caffeine; codeine-containing pills seem to help with this problem.

I am no doctor, but I think that this problem may have to do with bloodstream in your brain.
I hope my post will help you a little
 
there are quite a few trip reports on this substance already and most of them notice the positive afterglow after the trip, with very few noting headaches. now maybe it was just residual tiredness after the trip, or depletion of vitamins /minerals /water because of the stimulation. i kinda doubt your cerebral blood flow was disrupted by this chem.

that being said, maybe you should avoid it for a time, and see if the headaches dissappear, or appear under different circumstances. rest, rehydrate, take up some exercise.

trips are very unpredictable. imagine alcohol, sometimes you wake up the next day without a care in the world, other times you feel like the world just puked in your ear. it varies quite a bit.

i am sorry you had a bad time though. hope it will improve
 
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