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The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread - Act Four

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So how does one go about getting the fumarate ready for vaping and at what doses? Are these group of chemicals (4-aco-xxx) bad to vaporize?
 
For oral consumption: is the freebase or the fumarate preferable?
 
D n A said:
For oral consumption: is the freebase or the fumarate preferable?
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id assume fumarate freebased compounds have crappy BA

getting 50mg i think today think will try a 3rd of it at a fest next weekend
 
the freebase would turn into the HCl salt in the stomach anyway. fumarat is more stable than freebase, so it would be preferable for storage.
 
So i was just reading a thread about how people think lemon tek'd psilo's are cleaner feeling, since the psilocybin is already De-phosphorylated into psilocin, and gets into your system/brain faster, peaks sooner, and several people said they vastly prefer the lemon tek to dried/fresh psilos.

And that made me think about 4-aco-dmt, and how a lemon tek procedure on a dose of 4-aco would turn out. Sounds like a golden idea to me if breaking off the acetoxy group is just as easy with lemon juice, or in essence simple acid catalyzed cleaving to the hydroxy, psilocin.

Any one tried this?

Does it matter what dilute food safe acid you use?

Could you do it simply with a glass of hot water, a dose of 4-aco, and a bit of a food safe acid (lemon juice, vinegar, citric acid, maleic acid, tartaric acid, ascorbic acid, fumaric acid, etc, etc)?

I'm itching to try it, and probably will. But just wondering if anyone beat me to the punch here, or has anything to say about the idea.
 
After a few beers (3-4) i took 32 mg in a glass of orange/strawberry juice. This was the first time the come up was really unpleasant. Im not sure it was the beer or the juice that made me puke. After that i could laugh again and had a good trip. I remember the come up was faster (15-20 min) so i think the lemon tek works. Will try a lower dose (20mg or so) in some fresh grapefruit juice soon.. and no beer :D
 
I had a pretty intense experience with this stuff on Tuesday. It was actually a 4-ho-mipt/4-aco-dmt combo, but I think the 4-aco-dmt was the dominating character of the trip.

I started out with 25mg of 4-ho-mipt orally. It was pretty disappointingly weak (I seem to be a hardhead when it comes to tryptamines specifically) so I snorted another 12mg of the stuff. Stronger, but still not where I wanted to be, I then snorted 17mg of 4-aco-dmt (probably at around t + 1 hr or so). After this the intensity ramped up quite a bit within about 15 minutes.

The trip soon became overwhelming. The visuals were quite strong, to the point where they were making me a bit dizzy, and they were rather unlike the kind of visuals I'm used to experiencing on tryptamines (in fact, they rather reminded me of the visuals that I experienced on DOI). No nausea was experienced, but I did start to become subject to many dysphoric and confusing thought loops. I also wasn't in the best setting, as I was tripping with someone who had also taken 4-ho-mipt that was experiencing a lot of anxiety, which was definitely agitating my state. Luckily, I was able to keep what was going on mostly in my head, so as to not exacerbate his difficulty.

Finally, I had to just snort a fat line of MDMA to smooth things out (stimulants seem to kill trips for me quite effectively, for whatever reason; it's why candy flips have never been that appealing to me) because it was difficult to keep things together around my friend. After that I had a great time, although I was just rolling and not really tripping anymore.
 
IamMe90 said:
I had a pretty intense experience with this stuff on Tuesday. It was actually a 4-ho-mipt/4-aco-dmt combo, but I think the 4-aco-dmt was the dominating character of the trip.

I started out with 25mg of 4-ho-mipt orally. It was pretty disappointingly weak (I seem to be a hardhead when it comes to tryptamines specifically) so I snorted another 12mg of the stuff. Stronger, but still not where I wanted to be, I then snorted 17mg of 4-aco-dmt (probably at around t + 1 hr or so). After this the intensity ramped up quite a bit within about 15 minutes.

The trip soon became overwhelming. The visuals were quite strong, to the point where they were making me a bit dizzy, and they were rather unlike the kind of visuals I'm used to experiencing on tryptamines (in fact, they rather reminded me of the visuals that I experienced on DOI). No nausea was experienced, but I did start to become subject to many dysphoric and confusing thought loops. I also wasn't in the best setting, as I was tripping with someone who had also taken 4-ho-mipt that was experiencing a lot of anxiety, which was definitely agitating my state. Luckily, I was able to keep what was going on mostly in my head, so as to not exacerbate his difficulty.

Finally, I had to just snort a fat line of MDMA to smooth things out (stimulants seem to kill trips for me quite effectively, for whatever reason; it's why candy flips have never been that appealing to me) because it was difficult to keep things together around my friend. After that I had a great time, although I was just rolling and not really tripping anymore.
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Interesting! Is 4-AcO-DMT disappointingly weak on it's own for you? This combo is intriguing me.
 
daytryptr said:
So i was just reading a thread about how people think lemon tek'd psilo's are cleaner feeling, since the psilocybin is already De-phosphorylated into psilocin, and gets into your system/brain faster, peaks sooner, and several people said they vastly prefer the lemon tek to dried/fresh psilos.

And that made me think about 4-aco-dmt, and how a lemon tek procedure on a dose of 4-aco would turn out. Sounds like a golden idea to me if breaking off the acetoxy group is just as easy with lemon juice, or in essence simple acid catalyzed cleaving to the hydroxy, psilocin.

Any one tried this?

Does it matter what dilute food safe acid you use?

Could you do it simply with a glass of hot water, a dose of 4-aco, and a bit of a food safe acid (lemon juice, vinegar, citric acid, maleic acid, tartaric acid, ascorbic acid, fumaric acid, etc, etc)?

I'm itching to try it, and probably will. But just wondering if anyone beat me to the punch here, or has anything to say about the idea.
Click to expand...

I have a tiny bit (100mg max) dissolved in Vodka and Vitamin C for when I don't have the time to weigh out doses and the time I tried that the come-up was noticeably quick but not so much that I could attribute it to a conversion to psilocin. E.g it could be due to it being in a solution and not having to dissolve a piece of paper or a gelcap.

Don't think ascorbic acid is enough to deacetylate anyway
 
bloodshed344 said:
Interesting! Is 4-AcO-DMT disappointingly weak on it's own for you? This combo is intriguing me.
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Yeah it tends to be pretty weak for me, I usually have to dose in excess of 40mg to get anything. I'm not sure though, my sensitivity to it might have increased over time. I'll be doing some experiments with just 4-aco-dmt with this particular batch to see whether or not this is the case.
 
yeah ascorbic might not be the best for deacetylation. But citric from lemons seem to work wonderfully for psilocybin at near boiling temps (IE mushroom tea lemon tek), any reason why not with the acetoxy ester rather than the phosphoryl ester?

I just know 4-aco passes the blood brain, where psilocybin would not. Whether or not it contributes to the effects of the trip/substance, is not well known. But, theres alot of anecdotal evidence out there done with mushrooms its the bees knees. And i've read posts by chemists saying that what we are assuming is most likely happening, the psilocybin>psilocin conversion with hot water and dilute acid (lemon juice).

But it can also be statistically all over the place, if the enzyme catalyzed/acid catalyzed conversion in our body is unique. So its a hard thing to come to a consensus about. But chemically speaking, if this works with 4-aco and citric acid/hot water, then that would be pretty neat to do a dose by dose option of psilocin, or acetylpsilocin. Test them separately and decide for yourself if there's a noticeable difference.
 
I can tell you pure psilocin orally administered comes on within 5 minutes and by 15 minutes in, the effects are pretty developed. I used to grow mushrooms, many strains...and though I am not sure if the strains I had were mostly psilocybin or psilocin...I can say no mushrooms ever hit as fast as the pure compound.

4-AcO-DMT certainly does not require being metabolized to psilocin for it to be active, it works on its own and it's pretty different. I'd love to do a blind test, I am positive i could tell the difference.
 
tested 12 mg of 4 aco-DMT Friday. Barely felt it on an empty stomach. mild visuals. Saturday went full dose with 27mg. Creeped up after 1h. Good visual, no spiritual stimulation, like shrooms, no "glow" it creeps on you and you discover you're high. Interesting " time flipping" after 2 hours, where images were repeating at a very fast pace. That happened once on a DMT trip. Controllable but weird. Very good creative stimulation. Spent the night drawing. COme down after 5 hours quite abruptly. Slept well. Interesting RC. Different from shrooms, no mental load or visual impairment.
 
morninggloryseed said:
I can tell you pure psilocin orally administered comes on within 5 minutes and by 15 minutes in, the effects are pretty developed. I used to grow mushrooms, many strains...and though I am not sure if the strains I had were mostly psilocybin or psilocin...I can say no mushrooms ever hit as fast as the pure compound.

4-AcO-DMT certainly does not require being metabolized to psilocin for it to be active, it works on its own and it's pretty different. I'd love to do a blind test, I am positive i could tell the difference.
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Yes u are right. I took 17mg with some juice and it worked exactly after 20 minutes. Im using off white pure powder. Normally i always took it in a capsule and it took 1 hour to work. Also the low 17mg dose was a surprisingly nice trip. A higher dose (30+mg) is not better for me. Im gonna keep it around 20mgs for a while.

One thing i miss is the intense euphoria. I always had it with a few other batches (dark goey stuff) but whit this white clean powder i never have it. Is it the stuff or is it because its only the first few times u use 4-aco-dmt u get the euphoria. The white stuff is very nice tough. A clean and linear trip.
 
^ Well this is only speculation, but if it was dark and gooey the compound could have possibly have been degraded into 4-ho-dmt? A lot of people seem to find it superior, although if the come up time was longer than this probably isn't the case.
 
IamMe90 said:
^ Well this is only speculation, but if it was dark and gooey the compound could have possibly have been degraded into 4-ho-dmt? A lot of people seem to find it superior, although if the come up time was longer than this probably isn't the case.
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Well, he said normally he took it in a capsule. The 4-HO-DMT idea is pretty plausible to me, 4-AcO-DMT was really light to me but I've never done 4-HO-DMT.
 
Yes the come up was longer in a capsule also with the white stuff. As for the euphoria i should try the goey stuff again, but all i see is white powder offered these days lol. I do have a line laying in the open for a few weeks now, but its hasnt changed yet. Also taking 4-aco-dmt in any drink should have a fast come up(15-20 min) i read in other topic. And snorting will make it last for 3 hours? Guess i have to try both these things.. Oww how annoying =D
 
caravela said:
Yes u are right. I took 17mg with some juice and it worked exactly after 20 minutes. Im using off white pure powder. Normally i always took it in a capsule and it took 1 hour to work. Also the low 17mg dose was a surprisingly nice trip. A higher dose (30+mg) is not better for me. Im gonna keep it around 20mgs for a while.

One thing i miss is the intense euphoria. I always had it with a few other batches (dark goey stuff) but whit this white clean powder i never have it. Is it the stuff or is it because its only the first few times u use 4-aco-dmt u get the euphoria. The white stuff is very nice tough. A clean and linear trip.
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I think its the white stuff personally.

I've had white stuff turn into goo, and was sampling off the batch a few times a month or so for about 6 months. Definitely changed character in its affects, but it turned to goo before i noticed a definite change in affects.

I believe whats happening is the acetoxy ester pulls moisture out of the air, begins to clump and finally turn into a goo. Once there's enough water present, it starts to hydrolyze into psilocin. Leaving you with a mix of acetylpsilocin/psilocin in goo form, that ages into psilocin, and eventually degrades into inactives, unless of course you take measures to dry it and keep it dry for future storage.

I think these esters are great for storage, but at the end of the day, the effects of psilocin i find are more desirable, so you just need to lemon tek your aco/po 4 substituted tryptamines right before ingestion, but the esters are far superior in terms of shelf life.
 
Have some ondansetron would this have a negative effect on the 4-aco-dmt? I've heard some people say it does with psilocin, I found no issues with LSD except I had too much alcohol in my stomach after. Interesting how it's like you forget how to vomit though.

Is this lemon just like with mushies? Put it in a shot of lemon juice (since no tea) and it gets more potent? %)
 
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