The Big & Dandy 2C-E thread (Reorganized)

[Xorkoth]

Just wait until you enter the thought loop of irrefutable logic that deconstructs reality for you.

 

[General Anesthetic]

Hey all,

I'm curious as a few people have mentioned 2C-E's "dark side" lately, mostly in the 2C-P thread. I thought I'd bump this in the hopes that somebody might care to elaborate?

I'm thinking of trying 2C-E in the near future (I've only taken like 3-4mg before, about a year ago, just to test the body energy of it)... but even after reading probably every BL and erowid 2C-E trip report I didn't have the impression that it had a definite "dark side" until lately.

I don't believe 2C-E has any inherent darkness to it, but I will say that without fail it has always felt exceptionally cold to me, impersonal, frightening, even cruel.

I've been told that's because you need to supply your own warmth in order to drive back the cold, but I just cannot do that. It's like trying to warm up a blizzard by lighting a match- the depth of this cold just really can't be touched, and it is impossible to drive away. I'm just fucking awed. I am well and truly dipped.

I also feel it's extremely unforgiving, that if taken too far or done too often, that there is a very real possibility that you might never come back. Where you'd be, I dunno- but I think you'd be gone forever. I am totally shaken still, and the comedown phase has been underway for hours now. I'm not trying to be overly dramatic, but fuck. I just feel wrecked. I don't even know how to even begin to integrate such an experience into my life. I don't feel it was negative, nor positive. I don't know what to feel about it. All I know is it wast cold, and hopelessly overwhelming to me.

Oh yeah, and I heard the hum of life, god did I hear it until I thought it had split my head in two. I can hear it now, still, and feel the vibration all around me.

 

[slippy sleeveen]

I must say, I now have a new profound respect for 2C-E. Last night 20mg was ingested on its own, and I decided to do this by myself, to fully analyze what was going on in my head...

Last night I also had the most immersive out of body experience of my life. This happened about 2 hours and 15 minutes into it...it just felt like everything in the universe had come together and alligned in place with me, and lost sense of my body and dissolved into...nothing. What went through my head during these 2 hours I have not exactly interpreted yet, but it was intense. It was the most precious moment of my life and I feel like I've finally obtained what it is I was seeking with tripping in the first place. Unlike other trips, I felt a sense of conclusion once I came out of the OBE. I feel reborn, refreshed and worry-free.

I felt like my attempts to mix 2C-I with 2C-E in the past were a waste. It seems like the 2C-I overwhelms to the 2C-E and it just makes for a more intense 2C-I experience. Not to say that it was bad...it was extremely fun, perhaps more for partying, but in that case why waste 2C-E and why not just take 2C-I eh?

Treat this one with respect, and you will be rewarded. That is all I have to say

 

[General Anesthetic]

As an analogy to people's personality types, I tend to think of 2C-E as 'not suffering fools gladly'. By that I mean if you take it for frivolous reasons (y'know, people just thinking,'lets get twatted', but not really caring which drug it is they use to trip) it will turn 'round and well and truely kick your arse more often than not. On the other hand I've found that if you proceed with an idea as to why you're taking it, what you're exploring etc. it can produce some spectacular results. There are other 2C-x compounds that are better suited to the party atmosphere, 'let's get twatted' type intent or approack, such as 2C-B, 2C-I & 2C-C which are a lot more forgiving.

Oh I don't take it to party down, believe me. I am well past the point in my life where I'd ever take a psychedelic recreationally again, as I did in my youth. Besides I'm just very shy, and find for me that psychedelics are always best taken alone- and with a bathroom close, just in case.

It's not like I'm taking it for fun, because this couldn't even come close to being something I'd call 'fun'. It has absolutely zero recreational value to it as far as that goes, to me. And I do go in with general ideas on things I'd like to try and find out, I mean everyone has shit in their life that could be improved upon- but this stuff is *so* fucking intense. It's literally breathtaking, and I had to keep checking to make sure that, yes, I was breathing- because it was so intense that there were times I would worry that I'd forget to breathe, and there were times that I did.

I don't know how such a thing could ever possibly be contained, much less directed. It hits and holds like a fuckin hurricane, or an atom-bomb. It's all there, and then some, and then some more, and then some more again.

Totally overwhelmed, I'm gonna need to give my circuits a rest for awhile here.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

As an analogy to people's personality types, I tend to think of 2C-E as 'not suffering fools gladly'. By that I mean if you take it for frivolous reasons (y'know, people just thinking,'lets get twatted', but not really caring which drug it is they use to trip) it will turn 'round and well and truely kick your arse more often than not. On the other hand I've found that if you proceed with an idea as to why you're taking it, what you're exploring etc. it can produce some spectacular results. There are other 2C-x compounds that are better suited to the party atmosphere, 'let's get twatted' type intent or approack, such as 2C-B, 2C-I & 2C-C which are a lot more forgiving.

I see where you are coming from, but for myself I can say I've pretty much stepped away from taking psychedelics for a specific 'directed' purpose. FOr instance, from about 18 age or so until probably 2003 I mostly took them for a quasi-religious/mystical/insight-seeking purpose. And while many times it worked, but often I left disappointed. Then I just realized that +4 experiences are beyond dosage and intent. Many taking LSD to get high had mystical experiences. And many looking for something were left disappointed.

I grown to take psychedelics simply because it felt right. ANd if I am blown away, or gifted with knowledge or insight, all the better. This is far different than taking them just to be taking them. I have seldom used psychedelics recreationally, save for a few Dead shows, Bob Dylan and Roger Waters shows.

True, I've also taken an unofficial break from them all together and it's been that way since summer of 2004 (only trips since them have been a ketamine excursion [which I call an entheogen, but do not consider one with the serotonic agonists], a mellow 2C-C trip while hiking, and once ate a handful of fresh, but tiny, mushrooms resulting in a gentle +2. Other than that, its been a long time since I've tripped.

But yeah, these days I trip when it feel like a good time to do so. ANd if I am get insight, or a spiritual bonding, all the better. But when trying to direct a trip, more often or not I was left disappointed. Now, I just take them when it feels right and if I am gifted with something special, well then I am grateful for it.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Don't get me wrong, I don't get all po-faced about only taking psychedelics for 'serious' reasons, I was just commenting that with 2C-E, it helps to have a reason for taking it. As for my intake, I do have times of 'serious' moments for tripping, reasons such as having come to a moment akin to writers block and seeing if a dance with a psychedelic will give me any new insights to overcome the block (that's the sort of thing I'd find 2C-E appropriate for). I also have tripped (generally lower dose) on drugs like 2C-C, iprocin etc for things like someones birthday party with no intention of any 'deep & meaningful' contemplation of anything, but purely to enhance my enjoyment of a celebration. About the only use of psychedelics that I'd be opposed to is where people just want to get fucked up on a drug and it doesn't really matter which drug, or sort of drug they use (eg where people would consider taking LSD, psilocybin etc because there's no heroin, amphetamine etc that they'd prefer to take), just as long as they get 'off their face' on something.

I will admit that starting off intending to have some mystical/spiritual experience is most probably the best way to become disappointed with the psychedelic experience; they are something that 'just happen' while persuing some other goal.

 

[Xorkoth]

General Anesthetic, I've been there. The experience of joining with everything, stepping back and seeing the indescribably complex construction of reality, and then finding out that at the core, everything is actually nothing, is terrifying. I've posted the link to my own experience that was like that, and I don't know if you've read it, but here it is in case:

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=48983

It's been a while since I had this experience. The last (and only other) +4 I've had was with mushrooms, and that experience left me with a profound sense of bliss and understanding of, among many other things, what will happen to me when I die. Well, me as I know him will no longer exist, but I mean what will happen to my soul. 2C-E took this notion, which I had started to take for granted, and shattered it when I experienced nonbeing. I'm still trying to integrate this, and it really shook me to my core and made me feel far less sure about what I had previously known. If it helps any, I've come to the conclusion that what 2C-E shows you is a level beyond that which any other ego-destroying entheogen shows. To clarify, mushrooms, for example, show us the life-force, or god-force, or whatever you want to call it, of this existence, and you can merge with it, and realize that in fact we are all one and the same, and that our sense of self is just this force's attempt at gaining new experiences. 2C-E, however, can bring us beyond that point, to an even infinitely larger entity of which our god-force is just a subset of. I believe that with 2C-E I was taken beyond the realm of collective consciousness, into a cold, silent, and literally timeless place that may to our collective god-force as that god-force is to each individual identity (person). The reason I say this is because I distinctly experienced the reality that we exist in deconstructing, and I could see it at every level, in fact, so much so that I was conscious of how every tiny little thing was all set in place in order to create reality. I thentranscended that state, and I believe (currently) that I went to a place between realities. Egads, the pattern just gets bigger and bigger and bigger...

And also, I completely agree with you about the seriousmess of 2C-E. I also was very, very sure that if I had been fully swept away, "I" would have never come back. 2C-E is not to be trifled with and is, in a way, the most powerful psychedelic tool that I've ever encountered. it is driven by cold, impersonal, irrevocable logic, and if you mess around with it, it can and will quite literally destroy you.

So also keep in mind that I realize these thoughts are disjointed, and I apologize in advance if what I'm saying is unclear or hard to understand. As I said, I'm still working every day to integrate what my last 2C-E experience showed me, and even the act of wqriting this has given me a new idea or two. I'm afraid to back. But I also feel that I have to in order to better understand what 2C-E has to show us, because it just feels so cosmically significant in a way that nothing else has ever touched on.

I'd love to hear some thoughts and other ideas from people who have reached this state with 2C-E before. There's a lot to understand in the effects of this tiny molecule, and combining all of our thoughts can only help to make it more clear.

Also, General Anthesethic, I'd love to know how similar the state you reached was to the one I reached in my report. If you have time, could you take a look at it and comment? I've read a number of reports that had many similarities to mine, but most people seem to experience something infinitely less intense and significant than what I, and also seemingly you, have reached.

 

[General Anesthetic]

Thanks for linking that, Xorkoth. I just got done reading it, and wow.

One last thing I'd like to make note of: and I'm sure this has probably been mentioned 100 times or more during the course of this huge thread, so my apologies for repeating it- but the dose-response curve with this stuff is just frigging unreal.

18 mgs. had always provided me with a very strong, powerful experience. I hate to do this, but I would rate it a strong +3. 20 mgs. provided me with an exceptionally strong, exceedingly intense trip. Again, hate to do it but I'd call it a very, very, VERY strong +3, bordering on a +4, but when you're up in that area it becomes very difficult to attempt to quantify the difference.

But relative to those two doses, 24 mgs. was just on an entirely different plane- and in hindsight makes the 18 and 20 mg. doses seem almost manageable in comparison. This, I have absolutely no doubt was a strong +4 and beyond. I don't know exactly where full ego-loss counts in the equation, but that's what happened. I was gone, and I had literally lost myself. I was utterly, totally, and completely helpless, as helpless as a newborn child.

I remember when I came up from wherever it was I had been, this surge of intense gratitude filled my body and my head. I was just incredibly grateful to have found my way back, and I still am. But I was lying on my bed, and I remember looking down and seeing bits and pieces of myself scattered all over the floor. Not gory, bloody chunks like that- but as if I were a mirror that had been shattered and was lying in jagged shards all over the floor. I remember mentally trying to reach down and pick up the pieces so I could fit them all back into place again. It was just incredible. I'm still feeling a bit off today, but I'm pretty sure I got all the pieces put back in place ok.

I still have no idea what it all meant, or even that it meant anything at all. I still don't know what I learned, beyond the fact that losing your sense of self can be a deeply, profoundly unsettling experience with the possibilities of being truly traumatic, and that for me was about as pleasant as being pounded over the head repeatedly with a baseball bat. So maybe that's the lesson I'm to take from this, "ego-loss = bad, Sean. BAD!"

Anyways, that's all I have. Just feeling grateful. Grateful for the experience, even more grateful to have made it back in good shape.

 

[fastandbulbous]

^ +4 on the Shulgin scale isn't dose related, but is one of those experiences that potentially changes your life and outlook on life. You can get +4's with doses that might normally only produce a +2, but there's no way of correlating a set dosage with a +4 (they're something so rare that I've only had 2 trips like that in nearly 25 years of tripping)

 

[nuke]

The only thing to ever give me a +4 was 4-HO-DET... I wanna give higher dose 2c-e a try, but I'm terrified of the loss of control that people seem to ascribe to the heavier amounts, and the long duration.

 

[Xorkoth]

Re-reading this thread, and just thought I'd post something else.

Nuke, you're right to be afraid of 2C-E. It's immensely deep, and it's certainly up to you to provide the emotional stability during the peak. I mean, personally, I feel very emotionally stable, but during the violent ego death I experienced, I felt nothing but complete terror mixed with overwhelming awe at what I was experiencing. As someone said above, the experience kind of leaves you with an impression of "ohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodIcan'tbelievethis!".

However, the peak is where the "storm" occurs, and mercifully, it tends to be over in 2 hours or less, and it builds slowly, not really occurring until T+3 or so. After the peak, the intensity drops off hugely, leaving you in a very strong psychedelic state but in comparison seems like a fun playground of visuals. The rest of the duration is spent in this state, and it really is quite enjoyable, and allows you to really think about what you've experienced in the peak without being fully there anymore.

2C-E just is so overwhelmingly amazing and intense... just be careful with it. It seems to cause reality to reconstruct in a way that is much more logic-based than any other psychedelic I've tried, and really lends itself to theories about the nature of existence and so forth. It seemed to me, during my +4 on it, that I was reaching a "cusp" in reality, where everything was coming to a singularity, and I was able to see, at this intersection point, the same point in the infinite other realities that exist alongside of our own. I could see the moments before and after this point in other realities arrayed out before me. It's also one of those drugs that feels more real than your life has been, as if you were waking up from the long illusionary slumber of ordinary life and remembering that it was, in fact, an illusion. This is one of the most striking aspects of 2C-E, the fact that it is so logical and full of tiny details. The depth is shocking and endless. But also merciless.

man, intense stuff! I suppose this post came out of nowhere but I always enkoy talking about my experience, as it helps me to integrate it. I have a feeling that, like my other +4 long ago on mushrooms, I'll be integrating this one until the day I die and rejoin the force that I'm trying to understand.

 

[sensory overload]

I have tried 2c-e about 15 times and I find it to be very much about the setting, my camping trip was the only worth-while trip ive had off of it , only ++++ ive ever had . Every other time was indoors and dissapointing.The only thing I dont like about 2c-e is the lack of good CEVs,so if you dont have a good triping spot then you wont get the true potental of the drug.

 

[Xorkoth]

You don't think it has good CEVs? For me, it had the most vivid, colorful, and detailed CEVs of any psychedelic I've ever done. Music would create soundscapes in my head, and I'd fall through fractal planes, emerging into massive rooms full of strange alien creatures. I truly went on journeys this way. Well, I've only done it twice, and the first time had little mental effects but was astoundingly visual. The second time was a total +4 with a dramatic mind fuck, and was actually less visual in the classic sense... it was more like all my senses merged and everything I was seeing, I wasn't really seeing but conceptualizing.

 

[fastandbulbous]

The second time was a total +4 with a dramatic mind fuck, and was actually less visual in the classic sense... it was more like all my senses merged and everything I was seeing, I wasn't really seeing but conceptualizing.

Glad other people report that with 2C-E as well (thought it was just me and a couple of other people having an unusual reaction!). It does seem like it becomes more difficult to distinguish which sense is producing which stimulus - different to synastheaesia where one sense's stimulus produces a response in a different (but definitely different, not an amalgamation) sense

 

[Xorkoth]

My 2C-E experience I posted about above. It was my most intense +4 by far, and lasted for about 2 hours (I cannot say how long it felt like...time became a lost concept). It felt like the entire universe was created to create this one moment, and it was the most precious time spent. I feel like this will be the last time I spend with 2C-E. She allowed me to learn what I needed to learn, and any more would be abuse.

The intensity of the experience is just stunning, it is truly remarkable to me. And it's so strange. For me, it doesn't really effect me emotionally. I feel no great sense of joy, sorrow, laughter, regret, whatever- like I do with other psychedelics, because I am an emotional person. With 2C-E, there's none of that. It's just this sense of total wonder and awe at the grandeur of it all, the fuckin magnitude. It's coldness, and it is fright sometimes because it's like you're riding on the back of a runaway freight and you have no idea where that train is going to end up or if it's gonna wreck. The overriding sensation of a 2C-E trip for me is one of ohmygodohmygodohmygodomygod.........

Dammit, you bastards are making me wish I hadn't become so tolerant to phenethylamines! I reread this page of this thread, and now I'm going to be thinking about 2C-E nonstop for a long time. I truly do hope that I can regain my ability to really be shattered by psychedelics sometime. Maybe a break will accomplish that. But at the same time, I've been so far in, in experiences that were not of my making but ones that aligned and just happened. Those experiences have done so much to make me more awake, more aware during my everyday life that I'm not sure if I still have the ability to be impacted in the same way. They have changed me the core; my ego, my personality, will never be the same. If so, I can't believe that time came and went so quickly... I mean, I've only been tripping for a few years, and this past year or so has been the only time that I was really, really into it.

Then again, I'm still very thankful to have had these experiences and wouldn't take them back, redo them, or trade them for the world. Plus, I feel like I barely lived through or came back from that 2C-E experience I referred to; would I be so lucky next time? Maybe I just need to move on to different things which aren't yet very explored territory. Ketamine is one which is now at my disposal, which is a tremendous psychedelic. 5-MeO-DMT continues to intrigue me, as does n,nDMT. LSD and mushrooms perhaps are there for a reason - I'm not nearly as experienced in tryptamines as in phenethylamines.

Oh well. I'll stop rambling. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[nuke]

What's the point of being shattered? I also came out best when I work with the drugs, rather than being obliterated by them (which usually makes me look and sound silly).

 

[Xorkoth]

Maybe shattered isn't a good word. But it's been a qhile since I've been surprised by the intensity of a phenethylamine, let's put it that way.

Although I will be trying either LSD + MDMA, or MDMA + 2C-B for the 4th... with some ketamine thrown in there for good measure at the end. :D

 

[psoodonym]

General Anesthetic, I've been there. The experience of joining with everything, stepping back and seeing the indescribably complex construction of reality, and then finding out that at the core, everything is actually nothing, is terrifying. I've posted the link to my own experience that was like that, and I don't know if you've read it, but here it is in case:

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=48983

It's been a while since I had this experience. The last (and only other) +4 I've had was with mushrooms, and that experience left me with a profound sense of bliss and understanding of, among many other things, what will happen to me when I die. Well, me as I know him will no longer exist, but I mean what will happen to my soul. 2C-E took this notion, which I had started to take for granted, and shattered it when I experienced nonbeing. I'm still trying to integrate this, and it really shook me to my core and made me feel far less sure about what I had previously known. If it helps any, I've come to the conclusion that what 2C-E shows you is a level beyond that which any other ego-destroying entheogen shows. To clarify, mushrooms, for example, show us the life-force, or god-force, or whatever you want to call it, of this existence, and you can merge with it, and realize that in fact we are all one and the same, and that our sense of self is just this force's attempt at gaining new experiences. 2C-E, however, can bring us beyond that point, to an even infinitely larger entity of which our god-force is just a subset of. I believe that with 2C-E I was taken beyond the realm of collective consciousness, into a cold, silent, and literally timeless place that may to our collective god-force as that god-force is to each individual identity (person). The reason I say this is because I distinctly experienced the reality that we exist in deconstructing, and I could see it at every level, in fact, so much so that I was conscious of how every tiny little thing was all set in place in order to create reality. I thentranscended that state, and I believe (currently) that I went to a place between realities. Egads, the pattern just gets bigger and bigger and bigger...

And also, I completely agree with you about the seriousmess of 2C-E. I also was very, very sure that if I had been fully swept away, "I" would have never come back. 2C-E is not to be trifled with and is, in a way, the most powerful psychedelic tool that I've ever encountered. it is driven by cold, impersonal, irrevocable logic, and if you mess around with it, it can and will quite literally destroy you.

So also keep in mind that I realize these thoughts are disjointed, and I apologize in advance if what I'm saying is unclear or hard to understand. As I said, I'm still working every day to integrate what my last 2C-E experience showed me, and even the act of wqriting this has given me a new idea or two. I'm afraid to back. But I also feel that I have to in order to better understand what 2C-E has to show us, because it just feels so cosmically significant in a way that nothing else has ever touched on.

I'd love to hear some thoughts and other ideas from people who have reached this state with 2C-E before. There's a lot to understand in the effects of this tiny molecule, and combining all of our thoughts can only help to make it more clear.

Also, General Anthesethic, I'd love to know how similar the state you reached was to the one I reached in my report. If you have time, could you take a look at it and comment? I've read a number of reports that had many similarities to mine, but most people seem to experience something infinitely less intense and significant than what I, and also seemingly you, have reached.

Xorkoth, I could discern from reading your Erowid report that when you speak of “ego death”, you have the true first-hand account. When most people speak of ego death, I get the sense they are referring to the partial nature of ego dissolution—never mind for now the usual ineloquent use of the term “hyperspace”. 2C-E has not given me your very distinct experience yet, but its somber, reverential visions scream of that potential. I have been there three times by other means: once in combining DXM and 5meo-DMT and twice in imbibing liquid-form ayahuasca after a few hours of tripping on the much gentler and longer lived encapsulated mimosa extract powder.
I am interested in any parallels between our experiences (and anyone else’s) as well as in learning how, if a method exists, that you reached “metaphysical enlightenment” (Hoffman’s term) through 2C-E. In all the aforementioned personal experiences the start was marked by being violently jarred by a loud buzzing/ripping noise—quite similar to that that an old computer would make on returning an error—accompanied by a quite literal electrical shock and an adrenaline jolt. This marked the inception of “mere pattern awareness” or ego death. The sheer chemical impact of the 5meo on top of the already formidable dissociation of the DXM landed me in this realm, however the ayahuasca sessions were guided. I simply meditated persistently on the ideas of freedom and personal identity. The screen of my mind was quickly lit by images of abstract impressionist art—masks turning inside out, eyes falling into themselves and the like. As with your reported experience with 2C-E, an irrefutable logic “frictionlessly” deconstructed these ideas as soon as I felt the shock. It was an almost mathematical zeroing out, a perfectly played game of solitaire with cards picturing all impressions and representations.
I witnessed my ego scrambling to regain ascendancy, though I did not/could not impel these efforts in the least. The ego-defense mechanisms are quite real, I heard myself using every rationalization I could muster to deny or mitigate the experience. I knew on some level I would return, as I always do from drug experiences, but was very worried about the cold logic of it all and how it relates to feeling “engaged” in life. I’ve found it to be ultimately neutral in that respect.
Integration in any full sense may not be possible; I hold that experience as one of exalted infinity, using it simply to provide perspective on the scope of experience and of life. I don’t, despite its seemingly intractably absolute status, hold the experience to be the one of the final ontological truth—though it is perhaps as “final” and complete an experience as a human can reach. I deny the self but cling onto freedom, telling myself that the experience separates our awareness from our capacity for free agency and that is what is responsible for the sense of determinism (not entirely the right term but as close a I can get). Desperation and an intuition perhaps tainted with desperation is how I hold onto freedom, but somehow the process is sublimely vitalic.
I want to approach ego death from different directions in order to better understand it. So, do you, or anyone else out there have insights into attaining the state through the unique capacities of 2C-E?

 

[Xorkoth]

Thanks for that post. I'm at work right now and need some time to digest it. But I can say a few things.

I've taken 2C-E a few times. My first experience was with 18mg, and it was incredibly intense, but I did not reach any sort of state like I did during the experience being discussed. It felt like I was brushing against something, skirting the void so to speak, but I was stuck on the outside of it. My second experience was with 12mg, and produced nothing more than a (quite) uncomfortable punishing, as I was using it to escape boredom (oops). The third experience is the one you read, and it was also at 18mg, but I also took about 800mg of piracetam beforehand, which I have found to produce tremendously stronger and altered psychedelic experiences. It was utterly terrifying and I will not take piracetam with 2C-E, or indeed any other psychedelic, again. After that, I tried it twice more. At 14mg, it produced a very light state which was quite unremarkable but pleasant and introspective, and at 17mg, it produced a quite similar state, although I believe psychedelic tolerance came into play on the last two, as I had been tripping every weekend for months. So basically, it seems that, for me, piracetam was becessary to reach the truly profound state I did, but it may also be true that a significant increase in dosage would do the same. Since I've never taken it above 18mg, I can't say whether the piracetam fundamentally changed the experience, or if it just effectively increased the dosage. One day I will raise the dose to 20mg, but I'm in no hurry.

As far as how I reached the state while tripping, I was lying down meditating to music. The meditation was not guided, but was just a letting go of my thoughts and absorbing into the music. All of a sudden, I found myself drawn into that merciless logical decontruction, and there was no way to escape. As you read, it was a continual awakening into the truth, constant realizations one by one, each one shutting down another of my ego's defense mechanisms. I'm sure as hell glad it happened, but I could not knowingly repeat it at that level of intensity. At least not at this point in my life.

And I've also experienced ego dissolution... I think I've posted about this in another thread at some point. Mushrooms have taken me to a point where my ego was hanging by a thread, but was still there, and I was left with memory of the event. This process was not frightening, but was instead glorious and beautiful. I did not feel like I was dying, but emerging into my true self. I agree with you that true ego death is something different. Although the events leading up to it can be remembered, the climax - the total ego death - cannot, since once you return, you're your ego again, and you're unable to remember since you were dead. True ego death is terrifying beyond belief, and distinctly different from ego dissolution.

 

[Cecuk]

How it happened for me

(I was originally posting this in the "My favorite..." thread, but as I started into the story, I decided this was much more appropriate.)

My favorite has shifted over the years from LSD to 2C-E. Not surprisingly, I have ingested LSD more than 2C-e. I don't think it was just the novelty or the "new magic" often experienced when trying a new psychedelic, especially because my first -3- 2C-E experience were VERY edgy, and the other trippers who had joined me had none of the edge I experienced.

During my first experience I had a very unusual vision of my own death, but I later attributed this to paranoia associated w/ a new substance, and it ultimately didn't impact my entire trip (no individual detail ever does).

2C-E attempted to force my spirit from my body and since has become expressible in many different forms. I would find myself writhing on the floor to the sounds of Infected Mushroom as my mind attempted to express what it was experiencing by constantly twitching my muscles in a rhythmic cessation to the foreign waves of sound. While this may sound unpleasant, it was quite enjoyable, but only after I gave myself away to the twitches/jolts and eventually found myself expressing these notions using dance instead of mindlessly writhing about on the floor.

Interestingly, I had an amazing experience during my most recent 2C-E trip.
Mind you, this was my 11th experience with 2C-E, and we established an amazing space with one another. I never pushed it, it never pushed me.
So, this time I choose to insufflate 5mg which in my experience and readings was a totally safe dose for me. (Although I was finally attempting to push it)
My prediction was accurate --- but --- after the initial onset discomfort, followed by some wonderful purging, I entered psychedelic space.

I was no longer fighting anything, and my body and mind were free to roam in this interesting space 2C-E and I had created.
Unfortunately, my buddy, with similar 2C-E cred, had a very uncomfortable trip, and she regretted ignoring my advice about induced vomiting and blowing her nose.

Anyways, hours of beautiful trance dance left me feeling great, and as my friend departed, I realized what I had intended to be a quick 4 hour trip, had suddenly turned into one of the most intense trips of my life.
This is due mostly in part to the fact that once I broke through, I continued insufflating 2-3mg doses, up to a total of about 15mg.
While my friend thought I had lost my mind, I was sure I had finally reached the psychedelic comfort level I have been working for years to achieve.
So, it would seem the only place I could go from there is down, right?

nope... seems my assumption was right. After my friend left me alone I was still tripping exceedingly hard, I had predicted I probably had another good 5 hours to go, considering the amount overall I had ingested, and the powerful nature of what I was experiencing.

At this point I had been practicing Yoga in my spare time, only for about 2 months or so. I was having trouble locking myself into a mode, and having my body remember the poses properly.

Well after being left alone, and still fully tripped balls... I realized I hadn't tripped alone since I was 17, 5 years ago. Suddenly I doubted myself, but I remembered what great sensations I was getting w/ my Yoga practice... so I decided to give it a try.

I can't even really describe this part... but my mind and body were completely sealed. An hour and half later, I was drenched in sweat, and as I lay on the floor the world spun around me in the in the most peaceful and subtle way.
For years I have rigourously explored my mind and found many pitfalls when left to my own devices... but suddenly... for what seemed like the first time in my life, my mind was quiet... and yet, it was perfectly honed, totally focused.
Suddenly I seemed to understand the basics of meditation and what my best friend had always described as "what we were trying to achieve".
I had found a way to get high without using a substance.
Of course, there was no way I could have tested this at the time, but I had divined it as a truth I would myself create.

Since this last 2C-E experience, I have not ingested any psychedelics in almost 6 months, nor am I overly motivated to take them.
I have been doing Yoga daily since the experience, and I never seem to have trouble taking myself where I want to go with it. My dancing has also reached ecstatic new heights, as I finally understood what was meant by trance-dancing.

At this point I would like to thank 2C-E, but it would be sure to remind me that it had very little to do with how it's still impacting me today.