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The Big & Dandy 25I-NBOMe Thread (2nd edition)

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Are people no longer given the benefit of the doubt in that YMMV? Is adding that 'everyone is different' in every post about a high dose really necessary?

Please, offer your wisdom and tell me how I could have worded my experience to better serve mankind.
 
It is necessary when multiple people have gone to the ER from variable dosage of this drug. Just about a month ago someone posted an experience report of his friend seizing from 500ug of the substance, the same blotters that the OP took. That was a clear case where the sensitivity to NBOME drugs was variable.

You simply could have added on "this was only my experience though, and given that people have had wildly varying reactions to 25i and some have gone to the hospital because of it, I would stress not to jump into doses like this," instead of glorifying a 3.75mg dose.

If you're just here to be facetious, though, it seems as if you're the one being "negative." Grow up...
 
christ i join this thread to ask a real chemistry/tek related question, and it has degraded into two people bickering. You both are half-right, but also half-wrong. @IamMe, stop taking jabs, and saying youve done 25I over 10 times is just starting a pissing contest. @cryptix, i agree your dose was reckless, but its up to you to decide how much of a substance to consume (even if said amount may have historical evidence of dangerous outcome). I at least respect that you are able to contribute it to the discussion, but hope you dont take too many similar risks in dosing in the future.


ON TOPIC AGAIN: I have conducted some basic tests with my citric acid, and found the following regarding dissolved citric acid:

In 90% ethanol (everclear alcohol) at 25 Celsius: ~400 mg/mL
In tap water at 27 Celsius: ~750 mg/mL
 
I've read on a forum of a person(s) claiming 25i-nbome causes permanent diminished effects from all serotonergic psychedelics, as in inability to get visuals or much less pronounced visuals. The sources aren't what I'd call credible, just hearsay, but I figured I'd ask if anyone here has had a similar experience. I really enjoy shrooms and would hate for 25i-nbome to prevent me from having deep mushroom trips in the future. Can anyone comment on this? Anyone used 25i-nbome several times and still gotten the proper effects from serotonergic psychedelics after? I've heard their is a long-lasting tolerance from the nbome's, about 2 weeks, but permanent diminished effects seems incredibly far-fetched to me. Still, figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Here's the thread I read it in originally : http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16102188

Guy claims his friend or whatever can no longer get visuals from Ayahuasca after taking 25i-nbome. Thoughts?
 
^ I have taken DPT with full effects since having dipped into the 25i pool many a time. I would say those claims are untrue.
 
^agreed, those claims seem unlikely. If you abuse a drug tho (ie: used 25I multiple times a week for several weeks/months), it can cause some more permentant tolerances/mental issues. moderation is key
 
klondike_bar said:
^agreed, those claims seem unlikely. If you abuse a drug tho (ie: used 25I multiple times a week for several weeks/months), it can cause some more permentant tolerances/mental issues. moderation is key
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I just don't understand how or why it could cause permanent tolerance. This is unsettling, because it implies physiological damage to the receptors. And if that's a possibility...Not sure if I'll even entertain 25i-nbome.
 
cryptix420 said:
^ but 25i would sure as hell entertain you ;-)
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Haha so I hear. How many times would you say you've done 25i? Some guy claimed (All hearsay again) after 4 separate doses varying between 1-2mg he had a permanent tolerance, and claimed to know others who had the same issue. I just don't see why anyone would make this up, and in addition the chemical being so new I figured it's worth discussing. Nobody on BL from what I've read around has had this issue.
 
Would it be preferable to place 25i under the tongue or on the gumline? I know sublingual could be either, but I'm thinking placing it by the gums would make it easier to hold my saliva in. Having it under tongue for longer than 5 minutes was impossible without swallowing a little.
 
^ I enjoy sticking it on my gums. It's just simpler and works great ime.


JaneDoe2290 said:
Haha so I hear. How many times would you say you've done 25i? Some guy claimed (All hearsay again) after 4 separate doses varying between 1-2mg he had a permanent tolerance, and claimed to know others who had the same issue. I just don't see why anyone would make this up, and in addition the chemical being so new I figured it's worth discussing. Nobody on BL from what I've read around has had this issue.
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I've done it about 20 times and have one of the most read trip reports on erowid and also in the last B&D 25i thread (ok a little dicksizing lol).

You know though, after today I am going to change my opinion on this, and even give IamMe90 a little credit here. I took (supposedly tested pure) 125mg MDMA today with basically NO effect, and I haven't taken MDMA in 3 months. My day devolved into insufflating 2c-b periodically, and even then the effects were somewhat sub-par. This 25i tolerance thing could have some serious weight to it.

Some other factors to consider though: I took aniracetam and noopept before dosing, so this could've also had an effect. It's quite the bummer to drop MDMA and then have nothing happen. It's one of my favorite drugs.


Regardless, I will be staying away from 25i for quite some time, despite the giant vial sitting in my cupboard.
 
^thats actually interesting. I find it hard to believe that 25I would have such heavy/long-lasting tolerance, unless the chemical has a very long half-life in the body.
 
Measuring NBOMe compounds for dosage

^ I believe it's been theorized that the degree of tolerance brought about by ultra-potent NBOMe compounds like 25I and 25C may have to do with their extreme affinity and efficacy at the 5HT2a receptor. Pretty severe tolerance to doses taken just an hour before re-doses has been reported a number of times (I have taken up to 3.5 mg of 25C over the course of a day, experiencing a degree of diminishing returns on redoses I've not witnessed with any other psychedelic I've used (and I've used MANY). A number of others have claimed the tolerance usually lasts one or two weeks, though that's all going to be dependent on the dosage and frequency of use and will probably vary by user like everything else. I've certainly experienced full effects from 5HT psychedelics since using both 25C and 25I, so count me in with the anecdotal counter evidence regarding permanent cross-tolerance (however, the number of my NBOMe experiences can be counted on two hands).

Also, I don't know why using NBOMes would theoretically affect MDMA tolerance. The MDMA experience is theorized to operate generally through the massive triple release of dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Since NBOMes theoretically influence (predominantly) a sub-set of serotonin receptors it's unclear why they would diminish the effects of high levels of monoamines released by MDMA that have a much more widespread effect that acts outside of NBOMe tolerance influence on receptor down regulation and other mechanisms of tolerance. That is, we'd expect, say, 5HT2a mediated effects to be desensitized, but not necessarily other serotonin receptor subtype's effects, nor dopamine or norepinephrine receptors in general (which is what the DA and NE released by MDMA are going to activate). So theoretically we might expect a change in the MDMA experience, but not "killing" it outright. I don't know what explains cryptix420's lack of response to supposed MDMA, but I don't see a rationale for why it would be related to 25I use (though I'm certainly amenable to other more knowledgeable posters correcting my understanding).

Also, I'm going to link to the recent thread about how to measure NBOMe compounds now. Link here.

Rationale for re-posting link semi-regularly is NSFW'd to preserve space (and because it'll piss off people who won't read it anyways):

NSFW:
I know there have been other descriptions of how to measure doses, but as far as I'm aware, the linked to thread contains the most comprehensive description of the cheapest and most convenient method for non-lab tech types that is also fairly accurate and simple. I think the link should be re-posted regularly, because I get the feeling that the innumerable people these days habituated to knowledge acquisition almost exclusively through Google or friends do not have the patience to read beyond the first few posts they encounter. I believe they often believe summary is equal to thorough reading because that feeds their desire to avoid work (and this is backed by scientific study of excessive media multi-taskers, which are increasingly common), and are willing to risk the lives of themselves and others without even knowing it to get high so long as they don't have to search and read at length or exercise long-considered critical judgment. This feeling of mine is supported by the extraordinary prevalence of questions in online forums that have been recently answered elsewhere yet have gone unnoticed by those asking these absurdly redundant questions whose prevalent answers can be found in minutes using statistically improbable search terms (when told to research it themselves they say something like, "C'mon, I thought it'd be cool just chill on Bluelight and get the answer while I smoke a spliff. What else is Bluelight for?"). These deadly lazy and willfully ignorant people don't want to research or even search at all, they want to be spoon-fed like the children they are at heart and get high now -- and if they're not given the answers quickly they will forge ahead blindly.

The people who meet this general description unknowingly risk the lives and health of others by using NBOMes, not just their own lives, so for the sake of the comparatively innocent they implicate through their behavior they need to be babysat by those more critical and cautious. This means providing constant convenient links to exactly what they're looking for (and thus we enable their recklessness and hedonism, but what else is to be done when much more than our frustration is at stake?) I don't like babysitting either, so if you want to do something about it I'd recommend finding these people in real life and surreptitiously stealing their more dangerous drugs for the good of all humanity, heh (other ideas are of course, welcome, but "educating" people who are certain they don't need an education is a joke [also, don't use this as a rationalization to steal drugs for your own sake - know you must destroy or toss any drugs you steal to prevent that possibility]). If you know of a better summary of how to measure and use doses of ultra potent chemicals that also appeals to these same desires for convenience than the linked to, make a readily accessible note of it for yourself and please post it instead -- just post it semi-regularly. By simply linking to what's already completed we avoid the frustration and insult that ensues when people like those I've described demand a complete re-telling.

Anybody with a reply to this NSFW'd portion of my post should also use "NSFW /NSFW" tags in brackets to save space, as the conversation is tangential. Also, I know this is all a bit preachy, but people are actually overdosing fairly regularly on NBOMes and may soon start dieing, and I haven't seen any regular descriptions about how we should respond as a community. It's obvious that an organized and relatively consistent message that responds to the most salient threat (uncertainty in measurement and dosage) is advisable, so this is just my suggestion to accommodate that need.

 
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cryptix420 said:
You know though, after today I am going to change my opinion on this, and even give IamMe90 a little credit here. I took (supposedly tested pure) 125mg MDMA today with basically NO effect, and I haven't taken MDMA in 3 months. My day devolved into insufflating 2c-b periodically, and even then the effects were somewhat sub-par. This 25i tolerance thing could have some serious weight to it.

Some other factors to consider though: I took aniracetam and noopept before dosing, so this could've also had an effect. It's quite the bummer to drop MDMA and then have nothing happen. It's one of my favorite drugs.


Regardless, I will be staying away from 25i for quite some time, despite the giant vial sitting in my cupboard.
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I wish you had that posted here just a few hours earlier, as I would have seriously reconsidered taking some 25i. I want to make sure nothing messes with my upcoming mdma night. 25i does act on the serotonin receptor, so I would not be surprised if this did indeed kill your roll.

How long was it between your 25i dose and your mdma dose?
 
^cryptix420: why do you think 25I influenced your MDMA experience to the point of killing it entirely in light of what I've said in my last post? I'm just curious if you have further thoughts.
 
It could have been an interaction with the Noopept. I have never tried taking MDMA and noopept together before.

The MDMA could also have been bunk, but it was a gift from a close friend who is in the possession of a test kit, and he told me he tried it himself and it was good stuff.

I just don't see what else could be going on here. I still felt in a good mood and music sounded nice, and I had more energy...but it was probably placebo if anything. Idk man.
 
Pure MDMA is a lot more subtle than "e pills" which are commonly mixed with meth to make an impression. Pure MDMA will not "hit" hard, at least not at usual doses taken orally. I've also done 125 mg of supposedly pure MDMA crystal (that was vouched for by multiple independent online sources) and found it to be far less intense than the average e pill at a rave (back when I used to go to them). However, my pupils were definitely dilated and I saw light halos at the edge of my LASIK incision in my cornea that my pupils had expanded beyond -- so something was going on. I think you may need a higher dose to get what you expect if it's legit. I've no idea if my experience is relevant to yours or not, just saying.
 
I just got a sample of 25I in, intending to review it in depth this coming week. Don't know if ill get a chance to evaluate it tolerance, but that's definitely a factor i am going to keep in mind, particularly if planning festivals where there may be different substances used over a several day period.

My understanding of molar mass indicates that i would want to mix ~45mg of citric acid per 100mg of 35I-nbome freebase in order to fully convert it to a citrate salt. is that right, or is an abundance of acid needed to maintain a more extreme pH level during the conversion? (I wouldnt expect i need more than 1:1 molar ratio)
 
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